View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Great

    1 6.25%
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  • 8

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  • 7

    2 12.50%
  • 6

    3 18.75%
  • 5

    3 18.75%
  • 4

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  • 2

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  • 1 - Bad

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  1. #46
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalJordan4184 View Post
    The Black Flash thing kills me, as does the Savitar death. It's like they forget these characters have superspeed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    Don't you know, guys? Everyone needs to have their kickass moment... even if it means making another character look bad by having them forget that they had certain skills. /s
    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    Remember that time Barry was shot (by Peek-a-Boo, I think) and was able to react fast enough to grab the bullet as soon as it touched his neck? The showrunners may not, but Savitar ought to.

    Eh, maybe it didn't happen in the Flashpoint timeline.
    Barry is barely able to catch the bullet as it's hitting him, in a way that he can grab it. Savibar not only wasn't in fight mode and focused like Barry is here, he was also shot in the back, not neck, so he wouldn't be able to grab it, even if he wasn't weakened already. Savibar hadn't even really picked up real speed yet.

    Black Flash still had superspeed. All Frost had to do was point where he would be and shoot. It's not much different than him not being fast enough to easily escape that vault on LOT. Have a very great day!

    God bless you all!
    Last edited by Dagenspear; 05-28-2017 at 05:27 PM.

  2. #47
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    Haven't read all the posts here nor kept up with the reviews but already in Infantino Street why didn't Barry have Iris protected by ARGUS which he couldn't break into without Snart's help? It would've at least bought him some more time.
    Savibar's robot suit could have still gotten her. Also Barry and Len got in without powers.

  3. #48
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lola dee View Post
    What I don't get about the Speed Force is that for some speedsters they have to live in hell while Barry gets to enjoy being with his mom.
    It's not his mom and he knows it isn't.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Barry is barely able to catch the bullet as it's hitting him, in a way that he can grab it. Savibar not only wasn't in fight mode and focused like Barry is here, he was also shot in the back, not neck, so he wouldn't be able to grab it, even if he wasn't weakened already. Savibar hadn't even really picked up real speed yet.

    Black Flash still had superspeed. All Frost had to do was point where he would be and shoot. It's not much different than him not being fast enough to easily escape that vault on LOT. Have a very great day!

    God bless you all!
    True, Savitar was not paying attention so naturally he wouldn't react. Barry, on the other hand, has actually caught bullets multiple times. I remember early during season 2 when Joe tried to shoot Wells in STAR Labs and Barry just grabbed his bullets right out of the air/

  5. #50
    Mad Man with a Box! HalJordan4184's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Barry is barely able to catch the bullet as it's hitting him, in a way that he can grab it. Savibar not only wasn't in fight mode and focused like Barry is here, he was also shot in the back, not neck, so he wouldn't be able to grab it, even if he wasn't weakened already. Savibar hadn't even really picked up real speed yet.

    Black Flash still had superspeed. All Frost had to do was point where he would be and shoot. It's not much different than him not being fast enough to easily escape that vault on LOT. Have a very great day!

    God bless you all!
    Yes, a much slower Barry is barely able to catch the bullet. We're talking about Savitar however, a man labeled the God of Speed. Someone who was quite literally able to run circles around the current Barry. The current Barry who has more than quadrupled his speed since the episode where he was barely able to catch that bullet. The Flash's powers don't just affect how fast he can run, it's how fast he reacts as well. Otherwise, he'd run right into the first tree, wall, sign, car, etc that was in his path. So a Barry that was, in a conservative estimate, 10 times faster than he was at the time he caught that bullet, has a reaction speed at least that much faster.

    This also goes for Black Flash. Unless we're now positing that Caitlyn's powers work faster than a human's ability to see, she has NO IDEA where Black Flash is, or will be. There was a 360 degree field for him to come from. Not to mention, we aren't talking a distance Black Flash couldn't cover in less time than it would take Caitlyn to even think about using her powers.

    This is the speedster problem on this show, at least sometimes. I relate it to the superhearing problem in Smallville. Clark was constantly getting surprised, snuck up on, missing obvious things, even though, to paraphrase Batman in Kingdom Come, he could hear clouds scrape together. Caitlyn and Iris were able to do what they did, not because it was actually plausible in universe, but because the plot demanded it. By the evidence shown on the show, and how the character's have been seen to work, there is a contradiction. It happens to Barry when he fights bad guys. He gets surprised, even though by what we've seen in the show, and the character state about his powers, he shouldn't. It's one of the hard parts of writing the Flash. As Ollie pointed out in their first crossover, Barry really shouldn't be caught off guard or surprised unless he's fighting a speedster, because from his POV, he has all the time in the world to scout things, plan, and think about what he's doing.

  6. #51
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    I'm starting to see that problem in most CW shows lately, even on goofy comedies like IZombie. It's like the writers have no idea how to make a character shine and or stand out without it being at the expense of others. The funny thing is that it used to be confined exclusively to mismatched crossovers.... which TV tropes talks about here: "Power creep, power seep".
    But now even within a universe all characters are fair game when it comes to using this trope.

  7. #52
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalJordan4184 View Post
    Yes, a much slower Barry is barely able to catch the bullet. We're talking about Savitar however, a man labeled the God of Speed. Someone who was quite literally able to run circles around the current Barry. The current Barry who has more than quadrupled his speed since the episode where he was barely able to catch that bullet. The Flash's powers don't just affect how fast he can run, it's how fast he reacts as well. Otherwise, he'd run right into the first tree, wall, sign, car, etc that was in his path. So a Barry that was, in a conservative estimate, 10 times faster than he was at the time he caught that bullet, has a reaction speed at least that much faster.
    Only in his suit and not while dying. But he's not, never was and never will be a god, so calling him that like it means something, means nothing. Despite reaction time ability in many situations, his inability to dodge things he doesn't know are coming is shown multiple times across the series, into season 1.
    This also goes for Black Flash. Unless we're now positing that Caitlyn's powers work faster than a human's ability to see, she has NO IDEA where Black Flash is, or will be. There was a 360 degree field for him to come from. Not to mention, we aren't talking a distance Black Flash couldn't cover in less time than it would take Caitlyn to even think about using her powers.
    She has every idea where BF will be. He's going after Savibar. It's not huge leap to make. In LOT he didn't even know anyone else was there until something was shot at him and then he just grabbed it. He's single minded and was in direct attack mode the minute he was hit. And when that happened he was stopped.
    This is the speedster problem on this show, at least sometimes. I relate it to the superhearing problem in Smallville. Clark was constantly getting surprised, snuck up on, missing obvious things, even though, to paraphrase Batman in Kingdom Come, he could hear clouds scrape together. Caitlyn and Iris were able to do what they did, not because it was actually plausible in universe, but because the plot demanded it. By the evidence shown on the show, and how the character's have been seen to work, there is a contradiction. It happens to Barry when he fights bad guys. He gets surprised, even though by what we've seen in the show, and the character state about his powers, he shouldn't. It's one of the hard parts of writing the Flash. As Ollie pointed out in their first crossover, Barry really shouldn't be caught off guard or surprised unless he's fighting a speedster, because from his POV, he has all the time in the world to scout things, plan, and think about what he's doing.
    No mention of Clark hearing clouds scrape together was in SV and him having superhearing doesn't mean he always uses it. It was very plausible by the perimeters of the situations.

  8. #53
    Mad Man with a Box! HalJordan4184's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Only in his suit and not while dying. But he's not, never was and never will be a god, so calling him that like it means something, means nothing. Despite reaction time ability in many situations, his inability to dodge things he doesn't know are coming is shown multiple times across the series, into season 1.She has every idea where BF will be. He's going after Savibar. It's not huge leap to make. In LOT he didn't even know anyone else was there until something was shot at him and then he just grabbed it. He's single minded and was in direct attack mode the minute he was hit. And when that happened he was stopped.No mention of Clark hearing clouds scrape together was in SV and him having superhearing doesn't mean he always uses it. It was very plausible by the perimeters of the situations.
    Where was it stated that Savitar is slower than Barry when not in his suit? Savitar was identified by Speedsters as the mythical God of Speed. He was faster than all of them. Whether he really had a divine origin isn't the point. It's the fact Savitar outclassed all of them. At the very least, even if it is his suit that granted him the boosted speed, he's still as fast as Barry would be at the point of his creation while out of suit. He wasn't dying, the timeline was going to erase him. It's not like he got cancer, and gradually withered away.

    No, Caitlyn does not know exactly where Black Flash will be. This would require her to be able to track his movements. You have an idea, based off a situation that Caitlyn was not a part of. Also, again, he has superspeed that operates faster than Caitlyn's ability to use her powers. He only gets caught due to plot requiring it, not a logical reason.

    I never said the quote was a direct reference from Smallville. It was used to illustrate a point. The show had to actually invent a reason Clark gets caught off guard. They had to fundamentally change how hearing things works. Based on the shows parameters, he shouldn't hear calls for help either, unless he's specifically concentrating to hear them all the time, and then he wouldn't be able to focus on anything else. As per the show, using that power requires his total attention, and he can't do ANYTHING else at the time.

  9. #54
    Nate nate-dog1701d's Avatar
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    I can't get over how much Savitar's death reminded me of this infamous scene from The O.C. All we needed was the song.

    ETA: At least The O.C. established the gun and the woman in the scene first (it makes more sense in the full version). Iris just showed up out of nowhere.

    Last edited by nate-dog1701d; 05-29-2017 at 08:28 PM.

  10. #55
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HalJordan4184 View Post
    Where was it stated that Savitar is slower than Barry when not in his suit? Savitar was identified by Speedsters as the mythical God of Speed. He was faster than all of them. Whether he really had a divine origin isn't the point. It's the fact Savitar outclassed all of them. At the very least, even if it is his suit that granted him the boosted speed, he's still as fast as Barry would be at the point of his creation while out of suit. He wasn't dying, the timeline was going to erase him. It's not like he got cancer, and gradually withered away.
    He needed the suit so he could go at his able top speed. Savibar's myth was false. Him being erased is him dying. Even Savibar described it as him dying. But Savibar was getting visibly weaker as he told Barry he was going to kill everyone Barry loved. And I cannot stress this enough, he wasn't focused on anything but killing Barry when he was shot and even if he had been fast enough to do what Barry did in s1, he couldn't grab it because he wasn't shot in a way that he could grab the bullet.
    No, Caitlyn does not know exactly where Black Flash will be. This would require her to be able to track his movements. You have an idea, based off a situation that Caitlyn was not a part of. Also, again, he has superspeed that operates faster than Caitlyn's ability to use her powers. He only gets caught due to plot requiring it, not a logical reason.
    Knowing that he's coming after Savibar is her knowing where he will be. She hit him as he was coming toward Savibar. It's not far fetched that she aimed where she figured he'd go and fired. Have a very great day!

    God bless you all!

  11. #56
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    Overall, the season as a whole had a theme of "actions like time travel have consequences and you should learn from them," which in itself is a pretty good theme. My problem with the season is that half of the time that message was shown and proven in a good manner that truly put things into perspective, but the other half was just doing it for the sake of drama, sometimes coming off as clumsy, flimsy, placing blame where it shouldn't have gone and even downright hypocritical at times. There were moments where I got the general idea of what the writers were trying to do with characters and how to get their point across but I ended up not taking them seriously or ignoring them completely because the context of everything didn't fit.

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