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Supernatural Season 12 Finale Countdown/LIVE Discussion Thread!

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  • #16
    Originally posted by TyrantLord
    Yep. Underwhelming episode, really, especially as far as season finishers go.

    Crowly's death was uber anti climactic. I was really hoping to see Rowena and him kill each other in an old fashioned stand off in a game of one-upsmiship for his throne and revenge. Instead Crowly turns into a full fledged good guy? Ick. Way to ruin a fun character, reminds me of how Star Trek: DS9 ruined a fun storyline in the Ferengi at the end of the show by turning them into a federation type species. Just no. That's not them and it's certainly NOT Crowly. Also, one of my favorite characters, Rowena, doesn't even get a proper death scene? You kill her off screen? Seriously? At least they could've given us a witchy show down between her and Lucifer before he offs her but noooo....

    Cass's death, though equally as anti climactic, wasn't totally unexpected. I think it's been clear for a while now that the writers simply didn't know what to do with Angel characters anymore since season 8, especially so with Cass. They seriously diluted angels' abilities after the fall to the point of them being useless being healing, and Cass was simply lost as a character the whole time. I don't think the writers had a clear view of what they wanted to do with him so they said screw it and off him to make things easier.


    Just over all very disappointing. The BMOL was a big let down, death scenes were lazily done, and it's a shame. Crowly and Rowena were really two of my favorite characters because they were fun as my Guilty Pleasures, something I agreed with Chuck on. This is the biggest let down I've had on TV in a long time.

    I'm done with the show. It's sad to say good bye, but I think it's time to move on. I get why the CW wants to milk this cash cow sour, but they need to learn that sometimes less is more. Quality over quantity. Just saddens me that investing 12 years into this show leads to nothing. And now this show will simply drag on...to what? Get cancelled with out an ending? Thanks CW.

    Fare thee well, Supernatural. You were a hell of a fun ride while you lasted. But this is my stop on The Road So Far.
    I never really liked Rowena that much. I thought she was an OK character but way too non-serious and undeserving of the amount of air time and episodes she got. There were a few episodes I liked her in, like the one where Dean lost his memories, the one where Gavin is sent back to the past, and a few others. I'm just sick of witches on this show, they're so overused over the last several seasons. The only witches I thought were interesting were the ones who raised Samhain in season 4 and the ones in Malleus Maleficarum in season 3 (though that thing with that one demon possessed witch in stopping the Colt's bullet was stupid & never explained). The good/white witch lady whose son was kidnapped by that demon in Repo Man seemed interesting too. But all in all I'm sick of witches and all the overpowered abilities they've been given lately. That thing where she turned that rival witch into a mouse was beyond stupid & ridiculous. Rowena was ok in the season 11 finale, but that one was a huge letdown too. I despised the way they made Lucifer look weak as a result of her. There's no way an archangel and the creator of demons, who witches get their power from according to season 3's Malleus Maleficarum, would not know spells and need Rowena's help for anything let alone be fooled by her. This is the same being who knew the exact spell and sacrifices that were required to haul Death from 600 feet below the Earth from wherever he was. Something is terribly wrong when the devil himself is being made to look like a fool compared to a witch.

    I disagree about Cas' & Crowley's deaths being super anticlimactic. I'd give that honor to Death's death in season 10's finale. That was the dumbest and most expected crap I've ever seen. Why would one of the oldest and most powerful beings besides Chuck be that stupid to give the only weapon that could kill him to a Winchester to kill another Winchester? If he wanted Sam dead, he could've told Dean to do it with any other weapon Dean had. It was the dumbest way to kill a great character who shouldn't have even been killed. I was so hoping that Death pulled a ruse and would come back explaining that the scythe was a fake (didn't look like the one in seasons 4 & 5 that Alastair took from him and Dean ultimately gave back to him). I was hoping that after Chuck's & Amara's departure, Death would return and claim the world as his own and enact a new agenda instead of this stupid plot we got all season. I hated the British Men of Letters plot ever since they started it in the season 11 finale. Also Mary is a great recurring character but having her back to life on a regular basis was a bad idea and she wouldn't have enough to do with a plot that would've been much better than the one we got had this BMoL plot never happened. I think they ruined her in many ways by having her sleep with Ketch and that whole working with the BMoL, lying to her sons, then having her kill other hunters, etc.

    Crowley was a pretty good character, but I got sick of how scary demons were once in this show and how they became a joke. Crowley was the best when he was trying to screw over the Winchesters in seasons 6 & 8.

    Another thing that bothers the hell out of me is what they did with Gavin. They pretty much screwed the timeline in a big way. In Weekend At Bobby's, it was Gavin's hatred of his father that made him tell Bobby what he needed to know to find Crowley's bones so that Sam & Dean could travel to Scotland and threaten to burn them if Crowley didn't break the contract for Bobby's soul. By erasing that hatred as a result of the time travel Abaddon did by pulling Gavin to the present, they screwed up the past in a huge way. It should mean that the past now was changed so that Bobby had no leverage in getting his soul back and was still bound to end up in hell. This could mean that instead of ending up getting killed by Dick Roman, Bobby could've instead at that time in season 7 been working to break his deal with Crowley in further attempts, thus perhaps changing events so that he lived instead in what would've been a different version of season 7's events. According to Naomi in season 9, Bobby's soul was supposed to be in Heaven, but it got kidnapped by Crowley to hell. Freeing an innocent man's (Bobby's) soul from Hell was the 2nd trial needed to close the gates of hell that Sam did. So if Bobby would've still died thanks to Dick Roman but his deal with Crowley wouldn't have been broken thanks to Gavin not helping him because he no longer hated his father due to what Abaddon did, then his soul would not be innocent and would belong in hell, which would mean that Sam wouldn't be able to have done that trial. And it seems like Bobby's soul was the only one that qualified as an innocent man in hell. So had Sam not done the 2nd trial, it would mean he wouldn't have gotten to the point where he needed Gadreel to possess and heal him, which would have spared Kevin Tran his life. Without being able to do the 2nd trial, Sam & Dean would've probably abandoned looking for Metatron who they met after the 2nd trial was done when Sam was getting more messed up. So if there was no way of fulfilling the 2nd trial due to no innocent people in hell, they would've likely never met Metatron & got him out of hiding which would have prevented him from meeting Castiel or getting Cas to make the angels fall. And no 2nd trial meant no 3rd trial (purification of a demon) which ended up in the Winchesters putting Abaddon back together, which resulted in her return and the mark of Cain being taken by Dean, which led to the darkness being released and Lucifer's release from the cage & the conception of the nephilim Jack. So you can see how much is affected by changing 1 very important detail of the past, YET THIS HAS STILL NEVER BEEN ADDRESSED.
    Last edited by xrayvision; 05-22-2017, 06:04 AM.

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    • #17
      I think one thing they could do that would be very interesting is a D.C. Comics style Crisis event next season that will result in things happening between the 2 Earths as a result of the rift opening up again or as a result of the rift having been open and the main Earth of Supernatural having its history changed so that the Winchesters will have to restore the timeline. The consequences of this can be dead enemies being back alive and a threat along with other things like those horned demons being in SPN's Earth-1 along with other creatures from Earth-2 making it to Earth-1 that Earth-1 & its universe has never seen before.

      I think this would make for a spectacular plot because the conflict would be beyond angels, demons, monsters, leviathans, or whatever other new things the Winchesters would have to fight but it would involve restoring the natural order that in the past has pretty much always been "above the Winchester's pay grade" as it has been put. And it would be very appropriate to do what I suggested and explain Earth-1 as God's/Chuck's Earth while Earth-2 would be the Darkness'/Amara's Earth (especially given its chaotic nature & lack of order compared to Earth-1). That way they can have the 2 creators involved as well.

      Such a plot would truly correlate with consequences of the broken blood deal being on a cosmic scale and it would be traceable to the Winchesters, one of whom was supposed to die as part of the deal but instead all continued to live, and Castiel as he was the one who broke the deal because all of them had a hand in some way regarding the opening of the rift and especially in Lucifer's entrapment on Earth-2.
      Last edited by xrayvision; 05-22-2017, 08:09 PM.

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      • #18
        WOW...that would be spectacular! Those horned demons are exactly what nightmares are made of....the demons on Supernatural have always been just possessed evil people. These are truly monsters....

        Great thinking! Please write for Supernatural LOL

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        • #19
          Hehe thanks. I've had a bunch of ideas that I thought were better than some of the ones done. One of them was Michael turning evil in the cage and turning Adam into a demon so that when Michael and Adam return, Adam would be a demon possessing his own resurrected body, which would have been something never seen before until that idea was wasted on the demon Dean situation in the season 9 finale. It could've been revealed that a demon possessing his/her own body would be a new class of demon and would be stronger than any other demon seen with additional powers.

          They did such a crappy job on that demon Dean plot (having his bromance with Crowley) plus it ended so soon. It didn't even make sense how the mark turned him into a demon because Cain was already a knight of hell when Lucifer gave him the mark or perhaps became one shortly after, but not because of the mark, but because of Lucifer. It was explained that a lot of torture is needed to strip the humanity from a soul to turn it into a demon and the mark of Cain couldn't have tortured Dean that much (if at all) for the little time he was dead. Dean was not a knight of hell when his eyes turned black unlike Cain. And another thing that made zero sense about it was how Metatron was able to kill Dean (at least temporarily) to turn him into a demon while Death, who is much much more powerful, said not even he could kill Dean due to the mark.

          I think they could've done the whole Dean being turned into a mass murderer plot as a result of the mark without the demon thing and saved a demon in his original vessel plot for Adam as a final season plot where they would have to stop & save their own brother while also stopping Michael and even maybe Lucifer.

          As for the Crisis-like plot idea for next season, one way to maybe do it is to have Earth-1's Lucifer lead a team of various monsters and/or demons of Earth-2 and trap Amara & siphon power from her which would cause huge effects/consequences that would spill over to Earth-1 as the 2 Earths' timelines begin to merge, causing the Winchesters to free Michael as a last resort for restoring the timeline. But unknown to them Michael himself has become angry at Chuck for letting him rot in the cage after being the loyal son & tainted their brother into a demon. So they can have a series of encounters with Michael and his plans & allies over the season while the timeline gets more and more messed up. Michael's allies could include the Fate sisters who were devastated after the Winchesters derailed the same apocalypse that Michael was so devoted to doing his role in along with reapers. One idea is that Chuck could show up early in the season and help the Winchesters start getting through to Michael, but not until after Chuck in an act of humbleness and a way of showing his sorrow for neglecting his oldest & most loyal son allows Michael to trap him in a way Lucifer would do to Amara on Earth-2 (as explained above) to create a nice contrast/parallel and siphon enough power to open the rift and allow Mary's return and reunite the archangel brothers for round 2 of the apocalypse. They could explain the merging of the timelines of Chuck's & Amara's Earths as a result of them being trapped in a singular dimension (perhaps the emptiness that Billie spoke of) where light (Chuck) and dark (Amara) would merge along with their creations (their Earths' & the universes). They can also have Earth-1 Lucifer rallying up the Earth-2 angels who were being killed by Bobby & other hunters and they would overtake Earth-2's Fate Sisters and begin rewriting the script/plan which would additionally cause Earth-1's script/plan to become like Earth-2's to restore a balance. Later on, Michael & the Earth-1 Fates would realize what is happening and how Michael was not restoring the original plan like he wanted but causing history to change in a distorted form that was never intended while the Fates realized that they would be out of a job as the 2 Earths would merge into 1 like 2 companies in a merger. Unlike Lucifer with Amara, Michael would give back the power he siphoned from Chuck and the Winchesters would find a way to free him & Amara from the emptiness. The Fate Sisters along with Chuck and the Winchesters would cast a spell that would close the rift and with Chuck and Amara no longer trapped there together along with the rift being closed, the Earths' histories would finally be restored.

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