View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Great

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  1. #16
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    P.S. Has it been established that the team uses tranqs (sp?) instead of bullets? Because with the amount of shooting they've done in these past two eps, the Team Arrow kill count would have gone up if they had been using real bullets!
    With the fights with the SCPD/SWAT teams aka the good guys -- with the cops, as public servants, working at the pleasure of the mayor -- Oliver made a point of saying they used tranqs on them. It was Malcolm who lamented that he wasn't able to kill people at will.

    As for the fights with the League ninjas, it's not as clear. The skirmishes were fast and furious, and at night, so it's hard to tell if all their actions were killing blows or not. And Malcolm especially would be indifferent if his opponent was a cop or a League ninja, but it appears that he is going along with Oliver's try-to-avoid-killing code while in this alliance of convenience.

    Basically, after Oliver killed Darhk in S4, killing has been back on the table depending on the circumstances. Killing if necessary, but not necessarily killing. They draw a line at cops (and ARGUS agents in past eps.) who are only doing their job and technically are the "good guys" too, so I guess that's something in the plus column.

    "Husband." That will never get old. Again, belated two-year wedding anniversary #Olyssa.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    With the fights with the SCPD/SWAT teams aka the good guys -- with the cops, as public servants, working at the pleasure of the mayor -- Oliver made a point of saying they used tranqs on them. It was Malcolm who lamented that he wasn't able to kill people at will.

    As for the fights with the League ninjas, it's not as clear. The skirmishes were fast and furious, and at night, so it's hard to tell if all their actions were killing blows or not. And Malcolm especially would be indifferent if his opponent was a cop or a League ninja, but it appears that he is going along with Oliver's try-to-avoid-killing code while in this alliance of convenience.

    Basically, after Oliver killed Darhk in S4, killing has been back on the table depending on the circumstances. Killing if necessary, but not necessarily killing. They draw a line at cops (and ARGUS agents in past eps.) who are only doing their job and technically are the "good guys" too, so I guess that's something in the plus column.

    "Husband." That will never get old. Again, belated two-year wedding anniversary #Olyssa.
    Thanks for the explanation! You clearly watch more carefully than I do! I think one reason why the kill-no kill dilemma on "Arrow" becomes so contradictory (and borderline hypocritical) sometimes is because the writers/directors want to include cool action scenes with shoot outs and one-on-one fights, but they ALSO want to thematize the moral aspects of vigilante justice and Oliver's struggle to overcome the killer mindset that he was forced to adopt during his five years in hell. The hypocrisy became especially blatant in the gun control PSA episode, when a vigilante team that routinely use guns to fight the bad guys (in fact, Wild Dog's signature weapon are two blazing guns!) debated the problem of gun violence and using guns to solve conflicts!

    I usually don't mind the gunfights, explosions and excessive killing that you see in most action/cop/thriller type of shows, because it comes with the genre, and most of the victims are more or less anonymous red shirts anyway. However, when killing or using excessive violence is explicitly thematized and discussed, as it is on "Arrow", it's kind of jarring to see the hero and his team shooting people without second thought, or making arbitrary decisions based on whether their opponents are "good guys" or "bad guys". As I recall, the good Lord didn't make such distinctions in his "Thou shalt not kill" commandment!

    If you want to see a more realistic portrayal of (police) violence, there is a great storyline in the first season of "In the line of duty", where one of the cop protagonists makes a fateful decision to let his SWAT team go in and take down a suspected terrorist. It's just that they enter the wrong apartment (the number 6 has been turned to 9) and kill an innocent man. The protagonist is so overcome with guilt that he refuses to take part in the subsequent cover-up, and in the end he's transferred to another unit.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ssju90pdqU

    Anyway, "Line of duty" is a great series, and highly recommended for anyone who wants to watch a more realistic portrayal of how justice is done, from a police procedural perspective. Great writing and acting, as always in BBC productions.
    Last edited by evaba; 05-19-2017 at 02:32 AM.

  3. #18
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    I didn't watch every episode but:
    1. I thought Chase killed Evelyn?
    2. What happened to Ragman.
    Evelyn helped Chase fake her death to help "break" Oliver. She popped right back up and gloated in the same episode as when Chase supposedly "killed" her.

    Rory aka Ragman left the team after using his Rags to absorb the blast of a nuke. It rendered them useless. It happened in the 12th episode of the season. Still miss him. He was the best of the newbs.

  4. #19
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    Here is a good review that echoes some of my feelings about the "Missing" episode (the comments are spot on as well!):

    https://weminoredinfilm.com/2017/05/...le-in-missing/

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Evelyn helped Chase fake her death to help "break" Oliver. She popped right back up and gloated in the same episode as when Chase supposedly "killed" her.

    Rory aka Ragman left the team after using his Rags to absorb the blast of a nuke. It rendered them useless. It happened in the 12th episode of the season. Still miss him. He was the best of the newbs.
    Thanks. I like the actress for Evelyn but she was a bad character. Wish Speedy Willa was back in full gear.

    Sad about Ragman I always thought he could be the star of his own series in the Berlanti-verse.

  6. #21
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quite enjoyable. I think that after what happens ARGUS will put a huge sign on the front door "Oliver Queen is not welcomed here. GTFO*." It was nice to see Yao Fei again, although I found it a bit disappointing that instead of telling Oliver to survive the vision was trying to talk him in killing himself. Then again we got Laurel-vision who stopped him - I was really shocked that they remembered about her significance set in season 1.

    Thea and Oliver scenes were among my favorite parts of this episode - at this point I can tell for sure - Queen sibiling relationship is the only one that wasn't screwed up by organic writing during the course of the show at any point.

    A lot of redcon to desperately tie last flashbacks in season 5 with season 1 beginning. Making Oliver relive his traumatic experiences has some sense in order to quickly turn him into a mental wreck in a need of a professional therapy as asap as possible from the only psychiatrist of the universe, but some pieces of the puzzle won't match anyway - for example why Oliver was sleeping on the floor in 1x01... I thought that it's just after the spartan conditions he had on the island... And that two days before the fishing boat will apear kind of ruined it (though he will stay at the island at least couple of months - but he won't unless he misses that boat home).

    I see they were quick to include mild Olicity, quickly reaching usual mild level of nonsense Oliver and Felicity exchanging smouldering looks, soft smiles, soft music playing in the background and as usual characters shipping them etc. All the issues they had and the body of poor unfortunate Billy with three arrows sticking out of his chest thrown between lovers is of course quickly forgotten. Well done, organic writing, well done. <---------<<< It's sarcasm, in case someone didn't notice.

    Also the meta comment about Oliver's computer skills was a little too meta. Sure, Felicity is the only person that can use computers and preform Google search.

    Not sure but I think that they included a picture made by one of fans on that cake - overall it's cool, BUT if only it wasn't chibi... not only it's not my favorite way of drawing, but also it really doesn't suit to "Arrow" universe IMO. Anyway, it can do as picture on a cake for a child - I only wonder why anyone would want a chibi picture of a guy who was not so long named a cop killer and psycho. But then again people are quick to make 180 turn. After all an episode ago in Arrowvere is forever.

    Quentin was amazing in his scenes with Black Siren - he was quick to swallow up the news about the alternate version of his daughter, but again - he had a fair share of weird things happening to him, so an evil Laurel is probably not the worst or bizzare thing. I wonder if they're going to milk some Lance family drama angst in season 6. It's logical place to go, but once they jump on Olicity ship again there won't be much screentime left for something that could be actually enjoyable to watch.

    Hah, Nyssa with her greeting "husband" nailed the scene. Merlyn & Oliver team up worked well - high time for the redemption of this character.

    Liked the ending scene with Slade and especially that they used the theme "Never again" from season 2. I hardly remember any music from this season - it's not as unique and characteristic as in S1 and S2, so no surprise that I caught this one immediately.

    Quote Originally Posted by YutG View Post
    I thought Oli had recruited Cupid. Anyway Katrina Law/Nyssa is a smart addition.
    Sadly it happened only in my fan fic. Imagine that scene in the Arrowcave.

    Oliver: I asked somebody for help (sighs).

    Malcolm: Who? (suspiciously)

    Carrie appears: Lover! (gleefully) So glad to see you! I couldn't believe that you really reached out to me... And that you're truly alive! I'm so very happy! So what we're going to do, dear? Who do you want me to kill for you?

    But to tell the truth - I've got that idea from the conclusion of New 52 comic (don't even remember the name of the arc, as I hadn't read all of it). There was a scene where Oliver had support from various vigilantes and acquaintances (Batman, Emiko, Cupid and a couple of others).

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor
    Anyone else think these shows release way too many teasers and flat-out spoilers, with all the news of castings, departures etc.? I know they want to create buzz, but this also deflates some of the surprises that we could have uncovered in the finale.
    Yeah, they spoil a lot in those trailers etc. Even if you don't search for news it's hard to escape from various information. And they've pratically confirmed that the whole Team Arrow will survive the ordeal on the island. In order to not know anything about the finale you would need to cut yourself not only from the forum, but also Twitter/YT etc.

    *Get the f*** out

  7. #22
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    It hasn't been a good week for ARGUS.

    So, Oliver is still running around with guns? What show is this?

    Poor Quentin. This man has been through the wringer over the years. I agree, though, that he got over the Earth-2 thing oddly fast.

    I never would have classified myself as a Laurel fan, but whenever some version of her appears, I feel like I've missed her. I don't know where that leaves me.

    It was nice to see Malcolm and Nyssa, Oliver's wife. As for Slade, he'd better not mention Shado even once.


    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Plus the William stuff falls flat because even if Oliver automatically loves the kid cause he's his kid, they made him react with a familiarity that didn't ring true to the distant and brief relationship that they have. I just can't buy Oliver saying "my boy" like that. Someone suggested if he'd said "my son" it would have rang truer and I agree. Also, sure, save the kid but it's hard to deeply get worked up when the only time we ever see the kid is when he's getting kidnapped. There is no other relationship between Oliver and William. He doesn't even talk about thinking of him except in terms of him being at risk with Chase (and even that conversation only came up a couple weeks after Chase's threats)
    I totally agree. I had that exact reaction to the "my boy" line. I tried to imagine if there was any way Amell could have delivered that line and made it not sound weird, and I couldn't. Frankly, making William the key piece of manipulation softens the impact of an otherwise enjoyable episode.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Quite enjoyable. I think that after what happens ARGUS will put a huge sign on the front door "Oliver Queen is not welcomed here. GTFO*." It was nice to see Yao Fei again, although I found it a bit disappointing that instead of telling Oliver to survive the vision was trying to talk him in killing himself. Then again we got Laurel-vision who stopped him - I was really shocked that they remembered about her significance set in season 1.
    I was shocked too! I thought they had almost retconned Oliver's feelings for Laurel out of existence to prop the Allmighty Olicity Oceanliner of a Ship! And Laurel/Katie looked lovely in that vision, and quite different from her Black Siren incarnation.

    Thea and Oliver scenes were among my favorite parts of this episode - at this point I can tell for sure - Queen sibiling relationship is the only one that wasn't screwed up by organic writing during the course of the show at any point.
    You know, when I read this I had an epiphany, and realized why I enjoy the Oliver/Thea scenes so much. I used to love the Oliver/Diggle interaction, but something has been lost since Diggle became the Numero Uno Olicity Cheerleader and head of the "praise Felicity" squad. It's as if Diggle has lost quite a lot of his personality lately (and it's not only because of his Olicity Fanboy duties, of course, I was mostly joking). I also feel that some of the Diggliver bromance has disappeared now that Oliver and Diggle have to share the lair with Felicity and a bunch of other team mates. Maybe Thea feels special because she is the only main character (apart from Quentin) who has been a part of Oliver's life since the very beginning...all of the other characters who had ties to his earlier life (Tommy, Moira, Walter, Robert, Laurel) have all been killed off.

    A lot of redcon to desperately tie last flashbacks in season 5 with season 1 beginning. Making Oliver relive his traumatic experiences has some sense in order to quickly turn him into a mental wreck in a need of a professional therapy as asap as possible from the only psychiatrist of the universe, but some pieces of the puzzle won't match anyway - for example why Oliver was sleeping on the floor in 1x01... I thought that it's just after the spartan conditions he had on the island... And that two days before the fishing boat will apear kind of ruined it (though he will stay at the island at least couple of months - but he won't unless he misses that boat home).
    I honestly don't think the people who wrote the Pilot had much of a clue what the story would be five years later. I interpreted the scene where Oliver wakes up and almost strangles Moira as a way to show how his family realizes how changed and damaged he is. It was, in a way, the externalization of the PTSD that he more or less successfully managed to hide/mask in later season one episodes.
    I see they were quick to include mild Olicity, quickly reaching usual mild level of nonsense Oliver and Felicity exchanging smouldering looks, soft smiles, soft music playing in the background and as usual characters shipping them etc. All the issues they had and the body of poor unfortunate Billy with three arrows sticking out of his chest thrown between lovers is of course quickly forgotten. Well done, organic writing, well done. <---------<<< It's sarcasm, in case someone didn't notice.
    Maybe it's because we all knew it was coming, but the Olicity scenes seemed SO obvious to me as well....quite the opposite of organic writing tm (of course, Guggenheim's conception of organic is quite different from the rest of the world's!). I also agree with you that both Felicity and Oliver overcome their traumatic experiences a little too easily, but I guess the writers were in a hurry to get back them Olicity feels. In fact, sometimes it seems that the only ones who really were given screen time to struggle with (and overcome) the deaths of their loved ones have been Laurel and Quentin...others are so manipulated by plot force that they almost seem like amnesiacs sometimes.


    Not sure but I think that they included a picture made by one of fans on that cake - overall it's cool, BUT if only it wasn't chibi... not only it's not my favorite way of drawing, but also it really doesn't suit to "Arrow" universe IMO. Anyway, it can do as picture on a cake for a child - I only wonder why anyone would want a chibi picture of a guy who was not so long named a cop killer and psycho. But then again people are quick to make 180 turn. After all an episode ago in Arrowvere is forever.
    I'm not a great fan of chibi (and thanks for giving it a name!) either. It seems a bit infantile to draw grown ups in such a manner. On the other hand, I thought it was a nice shout out to Lord Mesa, who is a very faithful fan artist.
    Quentin was amazing in his scenes with Black Siren - he was quick to swallow up the news about the alternate version of his daughter, but again - he had a fair share of weird things happening to him, so an evil Laurel is probably not the worst or bizzare thing. I wonder if they're going to milk some Lance family drama angst in season 6. It's logical place to go, but once they jump on Olicity ship again there won't be much screentime left for something that could be actually enjoyable to watch.
    I'm hoping (probably in vain) that Quentin and Laurel 2 will get some meaty emotional scenes in season six. They don't have to be angsty, but I want to see them interact. A shared storyline would also give Quentin something to do, apart from trying to beat some sense into Renée.

    Hah, Nyssa with her greeting "husband" nailed the scene. Merlyn & Oliver team up worked well - high time for the redemption of this character.
    It was nice to see Merlyn again, although his concern for Thea rings a bit false, considering he's the one who set her up to kill Sara to save his own hide!
    Last edited by evaba; 05-19-2017 at 09:05 AM.

  9. #24
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I was shocked too! I thought they had almost retconned Oliver's feelings for Laurel out of existence to prop the Allmighty Olicity Oceanliner of a Ship! And Laurel/Katie looked lovely in that vision, and quite different from her Black Siren incarnation.
    Maybe they try to pander to two opposite sides of the fandom.

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    You know, when I read this I had an epiphany, and realized why I enjoy the Oliver/Thea scenes so much. I used to love the Oliver/Diggle interaction, but something has been lost since Diggle became the Numero Uno Olicity Cheerleader and head of the "praise Felicity" squad. It's as if Diggle has lost quite a lot of his personality lately (and it's not only because of his Olicity Fanboy duties, of course, I was mostly joking). I also feel that some of the Diggliver bromance has disappeared now that Oliver and Diggle have to share the lair with Felicity and a bunch of other team mates. Maybe Thea feels special because she is the only main character (apart from Quentin) who has been a part of Oliver's life since the very beginning...all of the other characters who had ties to his earlier life (Tommy, Moira, Walter, Robert, Laurel) have all been killed off.
    Oliver had good dynamics with various characters in various seasons (I would put even S1/early S2 Felicity and Oliver on the list, before the era of organic writing [tm]) but only his relationship with Thea is an anchorpoint - I don't know if this comparision is obvious for non-archers, so I'll explain that anchorpoint is a stable point where an archer draws the string of the bow back. And Thea was always that point. Many important relationships Oliver had were screwed up by writers (I won't forgive that angry!Lance in season 3), or put on opposition for the sake of drama (Laurel's 180 turn in season 2). Out of others it seems that Roy-Oliver and Oliver-Sara were also quite stable, although they were cut short for various reasons. (It's really ironical that Canarrow seems to work quite well within the show, and at this same time it was not orginally planned - if it wasn't only tied to those flashbacks, that tried to push the blame of Sara's and Oliver's betrayal on Laurel, who was the victim in this situation).

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I honestly don't think the people who wrote the Pilot had much of a clue what the story would be five years later. I interpreted the scene where Oliver wakes up and almost strangles Moira as a way to show how his family realizes how changed and damaged he is. It was, in a way, the externalization of the PTSD that he more or less successfully managed to hide/mask in later season one episodes.
    No worries, if "Arrow" will last for a few more seasons, I think I'll manage to push through my fanservice with my favorite psychotherapist. I wouldn't be surprised if they redcon that Oliver had some therapy after all. #BringBackDoctorPressnall

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Maybe it's because we all knew it was coming, but the Olicity scenes seemed SO obvious to me as well....quite the opposite of organic writing tm (of course, Guggenheim's conception of organic is quite different from the rest of the world's!). I also agree with you that both Felicity and Oliver overcome their traumatic experiences a little too easily, but I guess the writers were in a hurry to get back them Olicity feels. In fact, sometimes it seems that the only ones who really were given screen time to struggle with (and overcome) the deaths of their loved ones have been Laurel and Quentin...others are so manipulated by plot force that they almost seem like amnesiacs sometimes.
    They needed to activate fanpandering mode to generate some buzz before the finale, that will include only boring things like fighting, bow shooting, duel with a psychopath Prometheus, Oliver trying to save some unimportant people (his son, and his mother's son or someone) etc.

    Anyway, at this point Olicity is almost equally as pathological as Oliver's fixaton on Lance's sisters. Not sure where Carriver would be placed on the scale, but I'm sure that I wouldn't want to watch it happening on screen, after seeing what they're able to do with other relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I'm not a great fan of chibi (and thanks for giving it a name!) either. It seems a bit infantile to draw grown ups in such a manner. On the other hand, I thought it was a nice shout out to Lord Mesa, who is a very faithful fan artist.
    It's a type of interaction fan-show creators I greatly approve. I personally prefer either realistic style or drawings inspired by Bruce Timm's pictures (Batman TAS style).

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I'm hoping (probably in vain) that Quentin and Laurel 2 will get some meaty emotional scenes in season six. They don't have to be angsty, but I want to see them interact. A shared storyline would also give Quentin something to do, apart from trying to beat some sense into Renée.
    Somehow I have bad feelings about what plot they will cook up for Black Siren. Me thinking that something would work right, doesn't necessary mean that the writers will go also along those lines... (then again they introduced a plot with GA killing an innocent person, and a killer slaughering radom people to send GA's a message...). But looking at this from a writer POV - it just begs to use Quentin in Black Siren's story. I had that dreadful thought that after a season of angst Laurel E-2 will murder Quentin x_x.

    Btw. is it time for celebration yet? Because I would NEVER prediced that shunhavabtish Quentin Lance being this type of character (and my favorite) will survive full FIVE seasons.
    Last edited by Amarice; 05-21-2017 at 07:07 AM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I honestly don't think the people who wrote the Pilot had much of a clue what the story would be five years later. I interpreted the scene where Oliver wakes up and almost strangles Moira as a way to show how his family realizes how changed and damaged he is. It was, in a way, the externalization of the PTSD that he more or less successfully managed to hide/mask in later season one episodes.
    I interpreted it differently. I think he really attacked Moira because he grew used to defending himself when woken by physical contact. A learned reflex.

    On the other hand I really doubt that Oliver has PTSD or had it in season one, because he doesn't and didn't show the main symptom: not being able to function. Also, he clearly does not try to avoid everything that reminds him of his five years in hell - quite the opposite actually. Maybe he had a form of PTSD while with Yao Fei in the season one flashbacks: he didn't do anything all day but stare at Laurel's photo. But whatever that was he left that in the course of his first half year on the island, because we see learning how to shoot and how to survive right before he was captured by Fyres' men.

    In season one Oliver tried to play the part of having PTSD at least to some of his friends and family. Remember how he told Laurel he couldn't sleep and couldn't function (the episode where Lance accused him of being the Hood)? These were clear lies, only delivered to Laurel because she was too close to know his secret. But this playing the part could also have been the reason he slept on the floor: show for his family.

  11. #26
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freawaru View Post
    I interpreted it differently. I think he really attacked Moira because he grew used to defending himself when woken by physical contact. A learned reflex.

    On the other hand I really doubt that Oliver has PTSD or had it in season one, because he doesn't and didn't show the main symptom: not being able to function. Also, he clearly does not try to avoid everything that reminds him of his five years in hell - quite the opposite actually. Maybe he had a form of PTSD while with Yao Fei in the season one flashbacks: he didn't do anything all day but stare at Laurel's photo. But whatever that was he left that in the course of his first half year on the island, because we see learning how to shoot and how to survive right before he was captured by Fyres' men.

    In season one Oliver tried to play the part of having PTSD at least to some of his friends and family. Remember how he told Laurel he couldn't sleep and couldn't function (the episode where Lance accused him of being the Hood)? These were clear lies, only delivered to Laurel because she was too close to know his secret. But this playing the part could also have been the reason he slept on the floor: show for his family.
    I don't think he was faking the PTSD at all. Not being able to function is not the only symptom of PTSD. Just a quick search pulls these up:
    People may experience:
    Behavioral: agitation, irritability, hostility, hypervigilance, self-destructive behavior, or social isolation
    Psychological: flashback, fear, severe anxiety, or mistrust
    Mood: loss of interest or pleasure in activities, guilt, or loneliness
    Sleep: insomnia or nightmares
    Also common: emotional detachment or unwanted thoughts
    We saw all of that from Oliver in season one. Things like the guilt and the self destructive behavior and isolation, that's never left him.

    Yes, Oliver told Laurel some stuff that was not completely true but even in his lies, there was an element of truth. We've heard for years that he doesn't sleep that much or that well. And the only way Oliver functioned in season one was being completely control and putting on a persona both for his day to day interaction with his family and then going out to fight as the hood. He almost never let down his guard. He couldn't handle the emotional interaction that his family wanted from him. He ran from it even when they needed him desperately. I know that Oliver was lying to Laurel about why he couldn't be the Hood, but he was also being more open and honest with her than ever before.

    He was the hood guy but he also was a broken man that was only holding it together because he had a mission. His form of PTSD doesn't match up with your expectations but I don't think there is only one valid reaction or display of PTSD. From what I've seen and heard and read, it hits different people differently. People cope and react differently.

    Oliver finding a way to seemingly function and pass as "normal" doesn't negate his very real issues. Just the fact that he's only passing as normal is proof to me that he really isn't functioning normally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    I don't think he was faking the PTSD at all. Not being able to function is not the only symptom of PTSD.
    Don't get me wrong. I do think Oliver has psychological problems - I just doubt it is PTSD. Take the symptoms you quoted for example.

    Insomnia and nightmares: not everybody who has that has PTSD.

    Emotional detachment: Oliver didn't show any emotional detachment - if anything he is more emotional attached to people than before the Queen's Gambit sank.

    Unwanted thoughts: yeah, everybody has them, no reason to diagnose PTSD because of it.

    Loss of interest or pleasure in activities: Oliver does not display that - except maybe that his interests have changed (for the better IMO).

    Guilt: he displays this, starting with survivor's guilt after his father and Sara died - still not the same as PTSD.

    Loneliness: Oliver was both in the flashbacks and in the now less lonely than before simply because he cherished people more than before.

    Flashback - sure that happens even without PTSD.

    Fear: less for himself, more for loosing those he loves and making mistakes.

    Severe anxiety: never displayed that.

    Mistrust: I call that a rational reaction to what he experienced.

    Agitation, irritability, hostility:He shows those now and then but no more than is healthy, IMO.

    Hypervigilance, self-destructive behavior, or social isolation: He displays none of these: no self-destructive behaviour: he does not try to commit suicide all the time or cuts himself or takes drugs or things like that. He keeps his body and mind in shape - more than before actually. (Maybe he kind of enjoys being tortured too much but that might be a reaction to his guilt and also to the fact that he does not feel physical pain as much as others do. There rarely was social isolation during the flashbacks or later, Oliver always had someone or several someones he cared for and loved to be with. Oliver shows vigilance but not hypervigilance.


    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Yes, Oliver told Laurel some stuff that was not completely true but even in his lies, there was an element of truth. We've heard for years that he doesn't sleep that much or that well.
    And I have a hard time believing that. Because one thing that you loose when not sleeping well is concentration. And Oliver has no problem to concentrate, to focus. The way he fights, the way he shoots his bow, the way he thinks - Oliver does get enough sleep.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    And the only way Oliver functioned in season one was being completely control and putting on a persona both for his day to day interaction with his family and then going out to fight as the hood.
    And that is worse functioning than sleeping though the day with a hangover and partying and drinking all night? If you ask me Oliver functioned way better AFTER returning to Starling City than when he left.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    He almost never let down his guard.
    As I said a learned reflex. And a good one. I have the same when being with horses. I never let down my guard regarding being aware of them, being aware of the surrounding (because horses are animals that easily scare and then accidents happen), and aware of my own deeds and emotions (because horses catch those and reflect them).

    He couldn't handle the emotional interaction that his family wanted from him.
    Never could before.

    He ran from it even when they needed him desperately.
    That is just the old Oliver. Couldn't even share a flat with Laurel, couldn't stomach that he had a child. Couldn't keep learning enough to get through highschool, etc. Oliver would have needed psychotherapy for this before stranding on Lian Yu.


    He was the hood guy but he also was a broken man that was only holding it together because he had a mission. His form of PTSD doesn't match up with your expectations but I don't think there is only one valid reaction or display of PTSD. From what I've seen and heard and read, it hits different people differently. People cope and react differently.
    That is true. But it is also possible that it simply is no PTSD but something else (not someone else )

    Oliver finding a way to seemingly function and pass as "normal" doesn't negate his very real issues. Just the fact that he's only passing as normal is proof to me that he really isn't functioning normally.
    I still think Oliver is more "normal" as the Hood than as a playboy. His five years in hell have actually healed him from some very destructive emotional patterns he had developed during his childhood and adolescence.

  13. #28
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    They needed to activate fanpandering mode to generate some buzz before the finale, that will include only boring things like fighting, bow shooting, duel with a psychopath Prometheus, Oliver trying to save some unimportant people (his son, and his mother's son or someone) etc.

    Anyway, at this point Olicity is almost equally as pathological as Oliver's fixaton on Lance's sisters. Not sure where Carriver would be placed on the scale, but I'm sure that I wouldn't want to watch it happening on screen, after seeing what they're able to do with other relationships.
    I'm sure the writers will throw Felicity into the action as well, and come up with some heroic feat that she can perform in this season finale, as they usually do. After all, to her fans she is a superhero ("#Felicity Smoak is a superhero" as the hashtag goes!), and the Arrow writers are usually happy to indulge the Felicity fans. So, I'm expecting the writers to let Felicity save (if not the world, like she did in S4), at least #OTA and maybe some of the alleged second-stringer TA members, like Dinah or René. As long as we don't get the cheese-fest we got in the season three finale, I'll be able to overlook the expected glorification of Felicity Smoak....but if they unleash another "Felicity flies the ATOM suit" scene on the unsuspecting viewers, it will be a blemish on an otherwise passable season.

    You know, at this stage any romance is better than Olicity to me, so bring on Carriver! I'm not particulary interested in Oliver's love life (at least not after they managed to make it so uninteresting) but I wouldn't mind a new and fresh relationship, even if it's not plausible or even recommendable from a character portrayal POV (as it was in the first season, when he was fresh back from a monastic life on Lian Yu...or so we were lead to believe!). I'm just not the least excited about yet another cycle of Olicity in the sixth season, especially if it involves wedding preparations and Olicity babies (or at least talk about babies and family).
    Last edited by evaba; 05-23-2017 at 01:44 PM.

  14. #29
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    Good beginning - I was happy to see Olicity reunite. The writing for Felicity and Olicity this season has made very little sense, but I'm willing to sweep it all under the rug and move forward in order to not be angry about it anymore. At least we're certified done with other sub-par love interests now and back in business. Oliver and Thea were, as usual, very enjoyable.

    The middle dragged. I could not care less about Black Siren's return, and I'm tired of seeing Quentin tortured with his dead daughters over and over again. Malcolm describing himself as a sociopath felt off. He's always seen himself as the hero of his story and misunderstood. Rene and Dinah weren't around, but I didn't miss them in their absence.

    I didn't care about William or the emotional showdown between Oliver and Chase. The show never put any time at all into that relationship. I'm sure Oliver has feelings about William, but we haven't seen most of them, so William being kidnapped didn't affect me except to think that it was unbelievable this kid didn't have stranger danger drilled into him after the last kidnapping. Either that or he's dumb as a post which does not bode well for his future.

    I liked the Diggle and Olicity scenes. They've really skimped on those in the past several years. It was nice to see them acting like they shared a long history of friendship and vigilantism. The last bit was entertaining. I'm still not sold on Chase, though. The "10 steps ahead" shtick is wearing thin. No one could out-think someone else this far into the future after having spent so little time with that person. I'm always glad to see Nyssa, but her "husband" joke has never made any sense. She resented that forced marriage as much or more than Oliver did.
    Last edited by Ruby2Wednesday; 05-23-2017 at 06:03 PM.

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