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  1. #16
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    Dare I hope for a Russia scandal?
    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    The whole house of cards falls due to ... questionable financial irregularities and even more questionable ties to shady Russian oligarchs. Not to mention the multiple times he interfered in on-going police investigations while in office. I'd roll with that. God knows they've got more than enough goods to pin on Mayor Queen. They don't even have to breathe the name Green Arrow and they could still tank him.


    One would hope that had Mayor Queen been involved in money laundering for Russian oligarchs, he would have at least been savvy enough to skim a little extra in order to afford to pay rent for an apartment. But apparently not. Sad.

  2. #17
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    Ok so it's apparently two days before Oliver gets rescued by the fishing boat given by Anatoly's reply "Da. In two days, you get their attention with bonfire and sail away home a castaway."

    In the 5x18 episode, Oliver said to Anatoly he was staying for two days before he left to Lian Yu.

    So given the showrunners have always said the flashbacks follow present time well that means there had to be a time jump some time before 5x17 to fall of 2012 since Oliver got rescued in October 2012.

    Now there is a possibility that Kovar showing up and telling Oliver he's going to miss his boat ride means he really is going to miss it and Oliver has to deal with Kovar for the next several months until October of 2012 where he grows out his long hair and beard with gaining the castaway look.

    However I don't think they are going to do that but actually use the wig and fake beard Anatoly gave Oliver in this episode based on Anatoly's line of his old KGB friend used to be a chameleon.

    I think this just one of those things we have to file under more time past and the whole five years away thing is more like an approximate guess then any real accuracy.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 05-12-2017 at 10:34 AM.

  3. #18
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    The Oliver/Felicity convo about him not being a killer is especially weird since he IS a killer and since Felicity has actually asked (or even commanded!) Oliver to kill at least twice in earlier seasons: once when she told him he has to kill Ra's and the other when she told him to kill Dahrk! But this waffling and wavering concerning killing, Oliver's killer mindset etc. etc. is SUCH an illogical, hypocritical mess that many fans just don't care anymore. "I like to kill"...."You're not a killer"...."I only kill when it's absolutely necessary/when my dear ones are in mortal danger"...."I'll blow up/put a bullet in a buttload of foreigners (because their deaths don't really count anyway), and it will provide some really kewl action scenes" etc. etc. As @Costas said..."Mkay, whatever!"
    It's a mess, isn't it? And I'm probably being kind to the storyline.

    I did like how the issue was addressed in last year's finale. The Olicity scene over Laurel's grave where they both agreed that killing is a part of his mission and some times he'll have to resort to it felt like Arrow's attempt to FINALLY come to a compromise on this matter. Then they dredged it up in season 5 and the whole thing has become farcical.

    One thing's for sure. The "you are not a killer" line no longer works. He's killed people this season, he had the Bratva try to kill Chase a few episodes back and even when he doesn't kill, he condones his team members going out there with guns and killing thugs.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I was okay with their weaving the Robert story into this ep., if only as a reminder that the Queen parents were not paragons of virtue by any stretch. And Thea made an excellent point that despite Robert and Moira's love for their children and genuine desire to protect them, this does not erase the evils they did as individuals.
    Indeed. That was a very good point by Thea. Oliver sadly didn't take it to heart because in his press conference, he attempted to brush off Robert's transgression by citing how he sacrificed himself for Oliver. Took him a while, but he finally began talking like a politician. Should have just kept it simple and said the obvious. That Robert didn't mean to kill that person.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Now, they are assuming Chase's ten-steps-ahead m.o. explains his practically clairvoyant skills of late. It does run the risk of looking increasingly like magic the longer he does it, and it would be a bigger problem to me if he was doing this stuff without proof of ability since last year. His Prometheus blindside bought him a longer leash here, even though some of his post-blindside moves do need more explanation than we've gotten. (How the heck did he find William?)
    Well, that's my issue. They are using the ten steps ahead mantra to justify a lot of his sorcery. The problem is that not every situation is the same. For example, we know how he knew so much about Oliver because we eventually learn about his connection to Talia. But that's not the same as William's whereabouts. That's something that only very few people knew about. And even if, for example, we find out that Chase is in cahoots with Malcolm, that still wouldn't explain how he located William at a point when Chase is a fugitive no less. A partnership with Malcolm would explain how Chase knew about Robert though. If that didn't happen, then I don't know how on Earth Chase found out about Robert's skeleton in the cement.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    If Chase is sticking around into S6, then his cunning will run the risk of looking less like meticulous planning and more like a particle accelerator-fueled meta power. In that case, he could be Team Flash's big bad in S4. Actually, a Chase - Thawne team-up would be a formidable duo, come to think of it.
    Prometheus is basically a Guggie creation. He does go by Adrian Chase, but it's not even his real name. So given MG's track record of how he writes canon characters and original characters, I think it's very likely that Prometheus will stick around. He might not be the Big Bad of season 6, but I think they will keep him around as a recurring arch nemesis of Oliver. The role that should have gone to Merlyn, really...

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    And I do feel the dilemma of playing vigilante and risking all nightly ... while he has a toddler at home must be a serious question Diggle needs to ask himself. Soon. It would also make a rational explanation for him were he to exit the show someday. At some point, his duty as a father may trump his duty to Oliver's cause and if fatherhood means anything to him, he probably knows the answer already.
    I guess we are kind of waiting for Diggle to "grow up". Ultimately he will have to make a decision because, IMO, the heroes of these show should find it almost impossible to have a family and work as vigilantes. It's a "you can't have all your cake and eat it too" situation and if Arrow functions in a realistic environment as it claims, every hero should face that dilemma at some point. After all, isn't this what Laurel's death was about? Quentin incuring the wrath of a bad guy and his daughter paying the price for it? Which by the way makes it all the more shocking that he would push Rene to take custory of his daughter while he's fighting crime as Wild Dog...

  4. #19
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Ok so it's apparently two days before Oliver gets rescued by the fishing boat given by Anatoly's reply "Da. In two days, you get their attention with bonfire and sail away home a castaway."

    In the 5x18 episode, Oliver said to Anatoly he was staying for two days before he left to Lian Yu.

    So given the showrunners have always said the flashbacks follow present time well that means there had to be a time jump some time before 5x17 to fall of 2012 since Oliver got rescued in October 2012.

    Now there is a possibility that Kovar showing up and telling Oliver he's going to miss his boat ride means he really is going to miss it and Oliver has to deal with Kovar for the next several months until October of 2012 where he grows out his long hair and beard with gaining the castaway look.

    However I don't think they are going to do that but actually use the wig and fake beard Anatoly gave Oliver in this episode based on Anatoly's line of his old KGB friend used to be a chameleon.

    I think this just one of those things we have to file under more time past and the whole five years away thing is more like an approximate guess then any real accuracy.
    The show runners haven't said the flashbacks match up like that since season two. The whole of the season four flashbacks probably didn't even extend past a month. Maybe a couple months this seasons. Really for all we know, this fall the flashbacks started up a lot later than we thought.

  5. #20
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    The Oliver/Felicity convo about him not being a killer is especially weird since he IS a killer and since Felicity has actually asked (or even commanded!) Oliver to kill at least twice in earlier seasons: once when she told him he has to kill Ra's and the other when she told him to kill Dahrk! But this waffling and wavering concerning killing, Oliver's killer mindset etc. etc. is SUCH an illogical, hypocritical mess that many fans just don't care anymore. "I like to kill"...."You're not a killer"...."I only kill when it's absolutely necessary/when my dear ones are in mortal danger"...."I'll blow up/put a bullet in a buttload of foreigners (because their deaths don't really count anyway), and it will provide some really kewl action scenes" etc. etc. As @Costas said..."Mkay, whatever!"
    I get what they were trying to say when Felicity told Oliver he wasn't a killer. Of course he has killed...a lot, so yes he's a killer, but that isn't the main thing he is. It's not what motivates him. Chase isn't right about who he is at his core. Still, it was a badly written line.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Ok so it's apparently two days before Oliver gets rescued by the fishing boat given by Anatoly's reply "Da. In two days, you get their attention with bonfire and sail away home a castaway."

    In the 5x18 episode, Oliver said to Anatoly he was staying for two days before he left to Lian Yu.

    So given the showrunners have always said the flashbacks follow present time well that means there had to be a time jump some time before 5x17 to fall of 2012 since Oliver got rescued in October 2012.

    Now there is a possibility that Kovar showing up and telling Oliver he's going to miss his boat ride means he really is going to miss it and Oliver has to deal with Kovar for the next several months until October of 2012 where he grows out his long hair and beard with gaining the castaway look.

    However I don't think they are going to do that but actually use the wig and fake beard Anatoly gave Oliver in this episode based on Anatoly's line of his old KGB friend used to be a chameleon.

    I think this just one of those things we have to file under more time past and the whole five years away thing is more like an approximate guess then any real accuracy.
    The 'five years ago' thing is almost certainly approximate. Despite what we often think, for simplicity's sake, a flashback in an episode aired in, say, April 2017 isn't necessary set in April 2012. It could easily be set in January 2012, or July 2012 or for that matter, November 2011.

    As far as passage of time in the flashbacks go, Season 1, Season 3 and Season 5 could easily have taken place over a 6-7 month period (if not longer). Season 2 and Season 4 feel like they took a month or a couple of months at most (though that's just my perception).

    Its worth noting that we don't always know the gaps between seasons for the flashbacks though. We're told there's a 5 month gap between Seasons 1 and 2, and between Seasons 2 and 3. Between Season 3 and Season 4...for all we know, Oliver spent a lot longer than 5 months in Coast City "playing vigilante". Also between Season 4 and 5 - maybe Oliver was in Russia for a lot longer than 5 months before he comes across the Bratva.

    There are only a few hard dates we know of as far as the flashbacks go-

    Oliver gets stranded on Lian Yu the first time, some time in 2007

    Oliver visits Starling City (while working for Waller), some time in 2010

    Oliver is rescued off Lian Yu in September/October 2012

  7. #22
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    I liked the episode.

    I am looking forward what Chase's game is now. Why he pretended to loose to Oliver. How does he manipulate Oliver by that.

    As to finding William: I think Chase might be in league with Helix. They could have found him easily, especially as they have their leader back now.

    I hope Chase has Rene. Would not make sense otherwise.

    Oliver's thought about his father made no sense to me. It was obviously an accident. And after his father had been part of the Undertaking and done other nasty stuff (like closing that factory; main theme in one of the episodes in season one) hiding the evidence of that accident shouldn't have surprised Oliver.

    Good that Thea is develloped further.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    As much as I liked Diggle stepping up to keep the team afloat this year, he has been all over the map this season character-wise. He's probably not going to lose much sleep offing those anonymous goons, as he and Team Arrow have been doing stuff like that for years. And it took Lyla calling him out on his bs to make him realize: "Oh yeah, we do the same things too!"
    Maybe Diggle's problem with Lyla was not so much what she actually did but that she runs ARGUS. Diggle is a soldier and soldiers follow orders, lessens their responsibility. But Diggle learned the hard way in Afghanistan (pre-season one) that such a command and responsibility structure has it's dark sides, too. That is why he joined Oliver - not working for Oliver but with Oliver. They share power and responsibility. Years later Diggle killed his brother - result: he fled back into the army, because there he could follow orders again and had no responsibility. But again it didn't work.

    So maybe Diggle has a problem with authority and command structure in general now. His trust in it has been severely damaged. And being the head of ARGUS Lyla simply fits his trauma.

    And I do feel the dilemma of playing vigilante and risking all nightly ... while he has a toddler at home must be a serious question Diggle needs to ask himself. Soon. It would also make a rational explanation for him were he to exit the show someday. At some point, his duty as a father may trump his duty to Oliver's cause and if fatherhood means anything to him, he probably knows the answer already.
    Lance had no problem with being a cop and a father. It is a dangerous job, too. Remember that guy who killed women and made dolls out of them?

  9. #24
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Finally caught up with the episode (didn't have time last weekend :S it seems that I'm not able to follow even one show regurarly).

    Quite watchable. I have only one question - did Oliver forgot that his father killed a crew member on the raft??? A guy in the concrete shouldn't be that much of surprise. I couldn't help but laugh during the scene with the concrete trap - ah, those bad guys and their Complicated Plans.

    Liked Queen family moments - I love scenes with Thea and Oliver, they have, as some would say, AMAZING CHEMISTRY. But seriously - the dynamics between brother and sister is one of core things in "Arrow" - something that orginally made me love this show and still watch it out of the sentiment later.

    High time Oliver put on the green hood again - predictably someone had to say him to do such, and that someone was Felicity, but it turned out quite naturally in the converstations they have. Shippers will see there Olicity moments of course, Felicity being his light etc. but I see them more as friends - both sides should be happy. Nerd duo of Curtis and Felicty was okay in that episode. I wonder what is the next step of Chase's ten steps plan is. (Gate crash Oliver's birthday party most likely. And Black Siren will steal a cake Felicity had ordered.) Good to see that Team Arrow is still closely cooperating with ARGUS - it just makes sense.

    Quentin and Wild Dog scenes are good, even if the story with his daughter is kind of a filler. Liked also the flashbacks (but I could help to remind myself our jokes about the funeral of The Wig and President Luthor's story. )
    Last edited by Amarice; 05-15-2017 at 02:16 PM.

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