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  1. #1
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    A Frank Discussion

    https://www.fanfiction.net/s/1247635...ank-Discussion

    So, while I did enjoy 5x20, the thing about the whole "I've always had your back" comment from Felicity keeps getting me scoffing, so I wrote a bit of a fix it.

    In short: Oliver gets to do to Felicity what she keeps doing to him.

  2. #2
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Nice!

    I like Oliver's use of logic to point out the many errors in Felicity's thought-processes. As well as the long detailed list of all the ways she had not had his back and which for me has been such a frustrating part of this show. I think I'll print it out and keep it on hand in case I ever do a rewatch.

    The one thing I don't agree with that Oliver says is when, in so many words, he seems to imply that he didn't owe it to Felicity to tell her about the existence of William b/c she was not his wife ("Maybe I should have told you about William, but the fact is, Felicity, you weren't my wife yet...")

    Now, first, I think there are 2 things "about" William that came up in the whole ridiculous BMD arc:
    1. the existence of William
    2. the decision to send William away


    So, if you are referring to #2, then I wouldn't necessarily disagree that Felicity, as non-relative and fiancé only, didn't merit having a "vote" in deciding what to do about William.

    (But - long digression - personally what I thought Felicity's issue was w/ regard to #2 was not that she was not involved in the decision itself, but that Oliver did not inform her of the fact that he was in the process of making the decision, which meant that he didn't let her know of the fact that he was undergoing a devastating emotional struggle. Which I think absolutely your fiance should know about, should know when you are in such an emotional state. To better explain how I saw it, I will draw an analogy: let's say I'm engaged to be married, and let's say something medically devastating has happened to a family member and I have to make the decision to withdraw life-support or not, my fiance would have no business having a "seat at the table" with regard to having a "vote" in the outcome IMO, BUT my fiance should absolutely KNOW that I am dealing w/ something that emotionally devastating.** Now that's just me. )

    (Digression continues: Having said all that, I will also say that from what I remember of the famous miraculous-wheelchair-cure-scene, Felicity DID use words that sounded like her expectation was that she should have had some say [or "vote"] in William's fate, so I absolutely understand how so many fans took it that way. I think I took it more from my reading of some kind of emotional subtext in the scene, which of course is completely subjective on my part, but that's just how it felt to me. Frankly, I think it was a rotten piece of writing, so I think however anyone interpreted it was fair and I wouldn't try to tell anyone that if they interpreted it differently than I did, they were wrong. In fact, I believe a strong case could be made that my interpretation was "wrong" b/c I did not go by the literal words. But, I'm still sticking to my interpretation! But not b/c I like Felicity, and in fact I’d rather not feel the way I feel about it b/c then I could dislike Felicity even more, and oh how I love my negative-Felicity-confirmation bias, lol)

    Okay, back on track:
    But, if telling Felicity “about William” in this piece refers to telling her about the existence of William (#1), then I don’t think it was okay for him to propose if he wasn’t willing to disclose William’s existence, b/c, even though I don’t like Felicity, I don’t think it’s fair to anyone to ask them to marry without first disclosing very important things (like pre-existing children!). So in that case I don’t think he can give himself an out just b/c she was his fiancé and not wife. I was fine with him not telling her of Wm’s existence b/c of his desire to adhere to Samantha’s demands at that time, but I think if that was his decision, then he had no business proposing until he was ready to tell her. IMO he can’t let himself off the hook there.


    I also really like in one part of your piece where he says he tried at one point to be like Ray and Barry b/c that was the kind hero she seemed to go for. Kind of gives some motivation for why he might have acted the way he did sometimes. And what I’m really curious about is, especially b/c he makes a point in this piece of saying that he was willing to take Laurel to task when she crossed the line, WHY oh WHY in the show does he never do the same with Felicity?!?!?! It’s like he always has to handle her with kid gloves or something (I know, I know: in reality I think the show doesn’t let him take her to task b/c she’s always supposed to be “right”, lol. But if the show had to explain why he doesn’t, and the show couldn’t use that reason [that she’s always “right”] then I’d sure like to know WHY he’s afraid to confront her. That’s been just as frustrating as her “rightness” has!!!!!)


    Anyway, really enjoyed the piece. Thanks for sharing. It was enjoyable and very satisfying!



    **I believe this was paralleled, more mildly of course, in the S4 ep 1 when Oliver learns that, behind his back, Felicity was helping Team Diggle-Laurel-Thea and had not told him about this. In their discussion he tells her it's not that she wanted to help that he had a problem with, it's that she didn't tell him what she was feeling and thinking, so that in effect they were not on the same page -- which I interpret to mean, he wanted to know, emotionally, what was going on with her. Basically, by hiding her feelings, her needs from him, they could not have emotional intimacy, which most people consider to be a prerequisite to successful relationship. So, in BMD, from the way I interpreted it, Felicity was upset at lack of emotional intimacy. The very thing Oliver had had a problem in S4 ep 1 with when she withheld her emotional needs/struggles from him. Not that I'm saying hiding the need to stay involved w/ a vigilante team is of the same emotional-magnitude-scale, as struggling with the emotional decision to give up relationship w/ a child. But the underlying concept of not communicating the emotional needs/struggle, which then results in lack of emotional intimacy, IS the same IMO.
    Last edited by Shelby Kent; 05-05-2017 at 09:44 AM.

  3. #3
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    I was mainly thinking of the sending William away part, I think, because even I agree that once he found out MALCOLM knew, it was freaking time to tell his freaking fiance.

    Of course, I sometimes wonder if he was afraid to broach the topic in the first place because of how she reacted to their suburban neighbors' questions about kids, and the fact that both of them had messed up families. Honestly, there were SO MANY better ways that whole thing could've been handled. But nope... 23 episode seasons mean we must have melodrama​!

  4. #4
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Honestly, there were SO MANY better ways that whole thing could've been handled. But nope... 23 episode seasons mean we must have melodrama​!
    Yep and that's why you, as well as a bunch of other posters on this board and on some other boards I've followed, would do a much better job writing this show! Too bad MG can't use you guys as consultants!

  5. #5
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    I also really like in one part of your piece where he says he tried at one point to be like Ray and Barry b/c that was the kind hero she seemed to go for. Kind of gives some motivation for why he might have acted the way he did sometimes. And what I’m really curious about is, especially b/c he makes a point in this piece of saying that he was willing to take Laurel to task when she crossed the line, WHY oh WHY in the show does he never do the same with Felicity?!?!?! It’s like he always has to handle her with kid gloves or something (I know, I know: in reality I think the show doesn’t let him take her to task b/c she’s always supposed to be “right”, lol. But if the show had to explain why he doesn’t, and the show couldn’t use that reason [that she’s always “right”] then I’d sure like to know WHY he’s afraid to confront her. That’s been just as frustrating as her “rightness” has!!!!!)
    AMEN, AMEN, AMEN! It's not enough that some of her fans adore Felicity (and EBR) as if she were Christ incarnated, the writers persist in treating her like this Special Snowflake, who is almost always right and who is treated with kid gloves by the other characters, not the least by Oliver. I imagine that some of the flak Felicity catches has its roots in this treatment, especially when its juxtaposed with scenes and storylines that actually undermine the image of near-perfection that the writers are trying to project. I am aware that this is an exaggeration, but when the same complaints about Felicity's character portrayal keep cropping up everywhere, there is clearly something problematic about how she has been written for the past four years.

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