View Poll Results: What did you think?

Voters
12. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Great

    3 25.00%
  • 9

    3 25.00%
  • 8

    1 8.33%
  • 7

    0 0%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    2 16.67%
  • 4

    1 8.33%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Bury it

    2 16.67%
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 115
  1. #46
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 12
    Posts
    1,511
    Something else that bothers me for some time: where is that magic healing herb Oliver had in season one? Yao Fei had it and I thought it grew on Liang Yu. It would have been useful this episode, helping with injury and poison. But we never hear of it again?

  2. #47
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Freawaru View Post
    Something else that bothers me for some time: where is that magic healing herb Oliver had in season one? Yao Fei had it and I thought it grew on Liang Yu. It would have been useful this episode, helping with injury and poison. But we never hear of it again?
    We actually did see it once in S3, I think. I was rewatching 3x09 recently to check on something for a fanfic project, and when he's packing his bag after Dig and Roy leave to give him and Felicity a minute, he puts the leather pouch I remember the herbs being in into his knapsack. So... I guess they're still up on the mountain? Or maybe they were the penicillin tea...

  3. #48
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Diggle must have popped some mirakuru pills because the dude was practically superhuman at the end. I fully expect that he should be wincing in pain whenever he moves his arm next episode.
    What is even more amazing is per MG:
    "I think there were some wires for safety but that really was David. "
    Just wow!

    First, let's set aside the drunk Flashback Olicity bunker sex, which it basically was.
    [snip]
    It is what it was: fan service.
    ANYTHING more than the most succinct expression of the facts for plot sake is padding to make the show interesting, or aka fan service. The Bunker Sex wasnít without narrative purpose. It illustrated where they were emotionally/physically ,as in nothing about their love or attraction had changed, while also then drawing the line that still nothing about what had come between them had changed either.

    It's not like it was just Oliver taking his shirt of for no reason. Or Felicity randomly hacking something just to make a joke. Or shooting a boxing glove just to reference something in the comics that doesn't advance the story. The bunker sex was a big plot point that they used to build several conversations around. Both in the past and tied to the one going on in the present.

    Yes, it could have been a shorter scene and got the same message across just like any of the fights could just cut to the end without showing the details, but it makes for a better story telling and a lot more interesting to watch to include those details aka give you what you want and same goes for sexy times in the bunker.

    She mentioned that the issue of having children is something they needed to address and the William situation essentially forced the question into the open
    I think you may have misunderstood something in the scene. Or was it just head canon to better understand her motives? Because I can't discount it being another part of the issue even if it wasn't directly referenced.


    Aww, how cute, Prometheus picked up William from school. Imagine all the bunker escapades were engineered just so Chase can be on time for that school bus? If little Billy gets to meet Auntie Talia, that would be awesome.
    That this kid didn't run down the road flailing his arms in the air and shouting "stranger danger" the second the name he left behind to go into hiding was called out does not speak well either to Samantha's protective abilities or to William/Matthew's brain power. They write him like he's five years old. I think he might have ingested one too many of those crayons he was using on his play date with DD's kid.

  4. #49
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Amarice
    Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    I'm going to go and bask in my happy feelings for a few days before I come back to argue with you guys. Looking forward to it!
    Silly me, I thought that we come to forum to have a discussion. I think there wouldn't be so much polarization in fandoms if people just comprehend that different people can see/focus on different things on the very same collage picture instead of constantly arguing that other people have to see something.
    Just like there is drama and there is DRAMA!!!! There is arguing and ARGUING!!!! `

    I'm quite comfortable with my love of debate and argument/counterargument without a hint of concern that I might be bringing down the fandom. Different people can see and focus on different things but does that mean that everything someone posits is sacrosanct? Can nothing be questioned, vetted, or challenged? What a waste of all those compare and contrast essays we did in school.

    I'd rather engage in an exchange of opinion and viewpoint than just post independent summaries on what I saw.

    I do try not to keep on beating a dead horse. (At least not unless he gets up and goes rogue again, lol) So there's that at least.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 05-06-2017 at 04:50 PM.

  5. #50
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Backwards Galaxy I am totally perplexed by Diggle's stance on Lyla. I know he's worried about her becoming another Waller, but she doesn't owe him the truth or explanations. She has a job. He doesn't work for her. If anything, it's totally irresponsible of her to cave in to him at all. Putting aside the fact that he's an incredible hypocrite for everything he says to her, Lyla is entirely in the right and he's an idiot. Maybe it's all part of the "you don't trust me" and "I don't want you to end up like me" story angles they're taking with the show right now, but the vastness of his wrongness is so huge that it feels forced and it feels weak that she caves in to him even a little bit by showing him the audit
    I'm of a few minds on this. If Lyla was the head of some agency like the CIA or the FBI with direct oversight, then there absolutely would be lines she couldn't cross when it came to sharing intel with her husband. Even if she wanted to tell him, she COULDN'T. There would be levels of clearance or need to know that he just couldn't meet.

    But ARGUS is mostly an off books organization already. The rules are pretty fast and loose. If she can authorize the involvement of a group of vigilantes, it doesn't seem so far off that she can decide all by herself who gets clearance to view sensitive files like the audit of her more shady activities. And yes, it's her job and she doesn't work for him, but she has a job that they both have held worries about previously. She even tried to quit once because she didn't feel she could work for ARGUS as it operated.

    And that's really IMO the other issue. That even if Lyla is doing extreme things that she deems right and is fine with them, it's also OK for Diggle, as someone not caught up in the same kind of pressure to always push the envelope, to stop and force her to examine her choices to see if she is becoming numb to her own beliefs and standards. He loves her and wants the best for her. She herself doesn't want to turn into another Waller. It would be wrong if Diggle as her partner in life wasn't trying to look out for her.

    So it's a complex issue. I don't hold it against Diggle for being concerned or wanting to discuss what she's doing as head of ARGUS further, but I do hold it against him for unilaterally proclaiming she is in the wrong and not even being willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. He doesn't have all the facts.

    He may not even be entitled to all the facts and even though Lyla gave him an overview of her activities, it was only an overview. He wasn't given a dossier on Cayden James and Lyla certainly isn't allowing him to be the deciding vote in what she does. She's still in charge of ARGUS. But she also must agree that there is a line too far when it comes to running ARGUS. And she trusts him even when on occasion she doesn't think his plans with Team Arrow are the best (I assume he and Oliver traveling to Nanda Parbat to free MM falls into that category) I think sharing that audit was her way of showing that trust. And then demanding it in return.

    And that's pretty much where they left off. That Diggle is giving her that trust. (Or trying to) But she's also not totally dismissing Dig's right to be concerned or I feel she wouldn't have shared what she did. Or maybe she was being the bigger person because she wanted to save their relationship and that kind of openness would do it. Since she COULD do it, I'm fine that she DID do it. Even though Diggle was being a hypocrite. Her sharing with him and him taking that gesture as an olive branch let her get through to him about their issues. And from there we circle back to since she is the head of ARGUS, she gets to be the one that decides who she shares the info with so it's not really a problem.

    They could have though, just as easily told him she couldn't share that info and demand he give her the same trust and benefit of the doubt Dig always awards Oliver without any further sharing, but I kind of feel even though they didn't address it directly, we were to think that Lyla HAD been crossing some lines like when she was "need to know"ing the team when Cayden James wasn't even at the site they were protecting. That suggested to me that even though she still was fine with her choices, she realized she was needlessly hiding some of what she was doing. And therefore since she COULD share it with her husband as someone she trusted, then she did.

    I hope that makes some sense. Like I said, a complex topic.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 05-06-2017 at 04:48 PM.

  6. #51
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    .

    Imagine if any other woman than Felicity had done the same thing! I have a hunch that he Olicity fandom would have berated her for her fickle/"slutty"/unacceptable behavior..... I mean, Susan was roasted for "crimes" that I didn't even notice. Not to speak of if OLIVER had slept with Felicity, and then declared that it was just a one time thing! But since Felicity can do no wrong, I'm sure her fans will come up with all kinds of extenuating circumstances if they ever come across this criticism. I personally didn't mind that the Arrowcave sex remained a one-time affair....I was rather relieved that it didn't lead to a reconciliation TBH. Also, sometimes people do things against their better knowledge (especially when they are half-drunk!), and it's more honest to admit it straight away, rather than to give a guy false hopes, right?
    Well, when I was live posting over on Previously during the episode, the moment he paused, framed her face in his hands and just gazed at her with pure love and adoration, my comment was, "She's going to break his heart.Ē

    Yes, ideally, both knowing that nothing would change would have been, well, ideal. But as you pointed out too, when people are half drunk they donít possess the best judgment and Oliver also knew going in that she was responding to the wine.

    If one wanted to be pedantic, you could say that Oliver could have stopped and asked for clarification on what bunker sex would mean between them, but that seems as unrealistic as Felicity stopping the moment and spelling out that it would change nothing. I think Oliver was willing to take his chances and it didnít seem like he regretted it. I also think it helped that she didnít let the misconception that something had changed build.

    Although, that isnít technically true. Being together again did change something. They talked a little more about what was standing in their way and she apologized for walking away without talking through everything.

    Personally, I donít think that her apology for walking away meant that she wouldnít have broken up with him even if they had sat down and talked about everything for a while. Talking probably wouldnít have changed anything, but yeah, just ending things like that without any back and forth was too extreme. Understandable, but extreme (the clean break, not the magic chip) So I was fine with that.

  7. #52
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Costas 22 Like the IGN reviewer mentioned, the writers should have moved on from Olicity already. It does nothing for the show anymore, storyline or ratings wise. It's been toxic for both characters imo and there's no evidence that it won't be again. Just because Felicity came to see things from Oliver's POV once that doesn't mean it will stick. How many times has Quentin warmed up to Oliver and then hated him again?
    Of course not everyone shares IGN's opinion. I know for me it's only been when this season started remembering Oliver and Felicity had a relationship that the season started being anything but a dull treading of water.

    As for Quentin, wasn't it only once? He hated him when he and Laurel were dating. He hated him when he came back from the island in season one. He warmed up to the GA but he didn't think that was Oliver. In season two, he let him off the hook when Sara turned up alive, but when in season three he found out that Oliver was the GA and that Sara was dead and he'd been lying to him about that and her making it to the island, then he was back to being totally pissed at him.

    He was still pissed at him at the end of season three, he just didn't want him dead when he was trying to save the city. His personal feelings hadn't changed. By the start of season four he was still only grudgingly working with Oliver because he and Laurel had reconciled. But since then he hasn't hated him. They argue sometimes but the hate has been gone since before Sara was brought back.

    I don't recall him going off on Oliver about Laurel when she died, but I admit there is stuff in the end of season four that I don't recall. Still, I can't imagine that would count as hate so much as a burst of grief.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 05-06-2017 at 05:48 PM.

  8. #53
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Truth be told, "Olicity is rising" was trending last night on twitter. The problem is that Marc and Wendy still don't seem to grasp where all the social media love is coming from and why it doesn't translate to ratings.
    It remains a big frustration to me that ratings that did not dip in the demo after a long spring hiatus (and probably not in the numbers since both 519 and 520 had a big markets preempted) when in the past it has ALWAYS dipped is somehow viewed as a negative. Let the spin begin.


    And as to where a lot of those past Olicity viewers went, they walked last spring or this fall when it seemed the show was dropping Olicity. A lot of trust was lost. Not sure if they can be lured back after the show did such a good job for so long of pushing them away.


    But that said, once again, it's a win that the number didn't drop. Supergirl couldn't pull that off.

  9. #54
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow_47 View Post
    This ^ 100%. With the addition that, like it or not, this is Oliver's quest as Arrow and they are supporting HIS mission. Know your role. Yes you are all equal as far as worth goes, but you do have different roles to play. There can be only one leader. You make your suggestion and the leader takes it under advisement; they are under no obligation to do it your way. If you don't want to play your part, then leave. Leadership 101.
    It really hasn't just been his mission since season three. I'll admit, there seems to be a bit of retconning with that fact this season with Chase trying to make Oliver think he likes killing but while Oliver leads in the field, he's not the only one with say on what the team does. If he was, then Diggle should have let him leave the team disbanded and leave it to the Bratva to kill Chase. But Diggle, like Felcity, steps in when Oliver goes off the rails. In the case of the previous episode, she wanted him to back her play, but when he didn't, she did leave to handle it on her own. She's under no obligation to always do it his way.

    I would say, and I'm sure you agree (thus the tongue-in-cheek), that BKWurm is definitely opinionated, but I never perceived her as argumentative. Looking forward to her arguments!
    I hope you still feel that way!

  10. #55
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 08
    Location
    Land of 10,000 Lakes
    Posts
    2,687
    Quote Originally Posted by KSiteTV View Post

    What I didn't really find much use for was the flashback sex scene which only seemed to be there to pander to Tumblr. The show says they don't pander, but things like that, especially since it was hyped up so much, kind of says the opposite to me. There would've been ways to explain where Oliver and Felicity were at without flashback sex to the summer. (A time when, at least I thought Oliver was distant from EVERYONE, which got him to the dark place he was at in the beginning of Season 5)
    I didn't feel like we were supposed to think that Oliver was distant from everyone over the summer. In the opening episode, he and Felicity seemed pretty good to me, they were arguing about bringing in more people but not in a way that I felt meant he was shutting her out more than what the new adjusted status of their relationship meant. And he was pretty open with Diggle at the end. I think he was isolated and lonely and sad and that only got worse as the season went along but I don't think he was deliberately distant. Just unrealistically hoping everything would go back to "normal" He was in waiting mode I think more than shutting people out.

    And the scene between he and Felicity happened 11 months ago so that would have been about a month or two into their summer working alone (ish) together. Given that they'd gotten past the bitterness before the season ended, it made sense to me where they were with their relationship at that moment in the flashback. They like each other on top of the love so if makes sense that it would be hard not to fall back into that kind of behavior.

    I think that was part of what the Bunker Sex was to show, that they realized (or at least Felicity firmly did) that they couldn't fall back into the same kind of easy relationship. That they couldn't spend time doing non Arrow related stuff. That she couldn't share her emotions with him. Not if she was to keep from slipping back into old habits which she couldn't do as long as nothing had really changed in her and Oliver's relationship. That would only make things more painful.

    As for what Bunker sex served storywise, I mentioned upthread how it helped show vs just tell and also triggered the openings for the rest of the discussions, but setting that aside, Season 5 was a desert when it came to Oliver and Felicity interacting. And a wasteland when it came to getting much emotion from any the previous regulars. So much disconnect and going through the motions while the focus was on the new players. So in the end, even if I didn't think there were solid narrative reasons for the show to do Bunker Sex, I would feel like I deserved it for how much I've put up with this season. Pander to me all you want.


    Ok, need to take a break for awhile before I continue replying. You guys were prolific!
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 05-06-2017 at 06:36 PM.

  11. #56
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 12
    Posts
    1,511
    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Just wow!
    This!

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    That this kid didn't run down the road flailing his arms in the air and shouting "stranger danger" the second the name he left behind to go into hiding was called out does not speak well either to Samantha's protective abilities or to William/Matthew's brain power. They write him like he's five years old. I think he might have ingested one too many of those crayons he was using on his play date with DD's kid.
    I wondered about this, too. Some possible reasons:

    In my observation series that have only adult main characters often are not able to portray children correctly - if they appear at all. I guess it is because those who write them have no experience with children and don't recall their own childhood well enough to get clues.

    But maybe, just maybe, they have clues and William reacted the way he did because he was angry with his mother and overestimated himself, too (would be that age). He was in danger before (but saved by a hero) and still had to leave his home behind, become somebody else. Maybe his mother didn't explain things to his satisfaction and meeting someone who knew the real him felt good as well as could be a source of information he thought he needed desperately.

  12. #57
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 11
    Posts
    604
    The Olicity flashback sex scene in the episode was totally unnecessary. It served no great purpose and was only there for one reason...fan service for the Olicity shippers. There's no disputing or getting around that...it is what it is. It was a small nibble for the Olicity fans to chew on and enjoy. I'm not here to bash the Olicity fans or anything like that, but I'm just saying.

  13. #58
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 08
    Posts
    76,261
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    The Olicity flashback sex scene in the episode was totally unnecessary. It served no great purpose and was only there for one reason...fan service for the Olicity shippers. There's no disputing or getting around that...it is what it is. It was a small nibble for the Olicity fans to chew on and enjoy. I'm not here to bash the Olicity fans or anything like that, but I'm just saying.
    Hard to see it as anything other than fan service. It was so random to the rest of the episode as well as to the psychological state Oliver and Felicity were supposed to be in between seasons 4 and 5. But hey, at least the twitter and tumblr crowd got to make a few new gifs out of it...

    But it's not just about Olicity. For me it was equally irksome when they wasted Laurel's flashbacks last season on a failed attempt to reheat the Lauliver ship. I dare say those were even more random than the Olicity flashbacks were here. Just because they thought it would appease the shippers.

  14. #59
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 13
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    The Olicity flashback sex scene in the episode was totally unnecessary. It served no great purpose and was only there for one reason...fan service for the Olicity shippers. There's no disputing or getting around that...it is what it is. It was a small nibble for the Olicity fans to chew on and enjoy. I'm not here to bash the Olicity fans or anything like that, but I'm just saying.
    Yeah, I had the same feeling. The Felicity/Olicity/OTA twitter armada has been clamoring and campaigning for Olicity kisses, Olicity sex and Olicity babies since the beginning of the season. I guess Uncle Guggie felt he had to give his nieces some "canoodling" to calm their nerves! It was certainly not needed for the narrative.....in fact, the playful attitude and the way the writers used alcohol and intoxication to make their heroes end up making love in the Arrowcave didn't really fit with the time-frame. I mean, Felicity had recently nuked a whole town, and she should be preoccupied with that tragedy, although it wasn't her fault. I don't know if Oliver felt that good either, so it really wasn't the time for some flirtatuous sex.....unless it was comfort sex, of course! Anyway, that flashback scene felt shoehorned in, just like the flashback Laurel/Oliver scene @Costas mentioned, which even retconned the tie-in comics (where the story surrounding Tommy's funeral was wholly different!).
    Last edited by evaba; 05-08-2017 at 02:28 AM.

  15. #60
    Forum Regular Arrow_47's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 15
    Posts
    113
    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    It really hasn't just been his mission since season three. I'll admit, there seems to be a bit of retconning with that fact this season with Chase trying to make Oliver think he likes killing but while Oliver leads in the field, he's not the only one with say on what the team does. If he was, then Diggle should have let him leave the team disbanded and leave it to the Bratva to kill Chase. But Diggle, like Felcity, steps in when Oliver goes off the rails. In the case of the previous episode, she wanted him to back her play, but when he didn't, she did leave to handle it on her own. She's under no obligation to always do it his way.

    I hope you still feel that way!
    Always! That said, I would argue that the name of the show is still, "Arrow"...not Team Arrow. But despite the semantics, any time you have more than one leader the organization becomes less effective. The team then leans towards "mom" or "dad" to get their way instead of focusing on the mission. Maybe it's my 24 years of military service, but I've seen what happens too many times when members of the team try to usurp authority from the leader. I would also argue, the only time Oliver goes "off the rails" is when the writers do a poor job of telling his story. Bottom line, there has to be one person who makes the final decision. For this show, it is Oliver.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •