Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Underneath?"

[evaba]

Felicity getting drunk, sleeping with Oliver, and then immediately telling him it was a one time thing in the flashback cheesed me off something fierce. Tell him that before you sleep together so he can make an informed decision about whether or not he still wants to do it. It's nothing ten billion male protagonists haven't done in every tv show, movie, and book before, but they were wrong, too. It just felt like a really dirty thing to do to the poor guy

.

Imagine if any other woman than Felicity had done the same thing! I have a hunch that he Olicity fandom would have berated her for her fickle/"slutty"/unacceptable behavior..... I mean, Susan was roasted for "crimes" that I didn't even notice. Not to speak of if OLIVER had slept with Felicity, and then declared that it was just a one time thing! But since Felicity can do no wrong, I'm sure her fans will come up with all kinds of extenuating circumstances if they ever come across this criticism. I personally didn't mind that the Arrowcave sex remained a one-time affair....I was rather relieved that it didn't lead to a reconciliation TBH. Also, sometimes people do things against their better knowledge (especially when they are half-drunk!), and it's more honest to admit it straight away, rather than to give a guy false hopes, right?

[evaba]

Early ratings are in:

Viewers: 1,59, demo: 0.5

They might go down a bit, since there were preemptions in certain areas.

[costas22]

Pretty much the same rating Arrow has been getting for the last 7 episodes then...

Seems like the IGN reviewer agrees with you! He gave the episode a 4.7 out of ten.

Nah, he doesn't agree. He's been too kind!

Anyway, anyone who believes that Oliver and Felicity are over as a romantic couple is clearly mistaken (or indulging in wishful thinking!). If anything this ep laid the foundations for a full reconciliation and continuation of their romance in season six.

This. I don't get how this episode supposedly wrapped up this storyline as some people are suggesting. The last scene clearly left the door open. Like the IGN reviewer mentioned, the writers should have moved on from Olicity already. It does nothing for the show anymore, storyline or ratings wise. It's been toxic for both characters imo and there's no evidence that it won't be again. Just because Felicity came to see things from Oliver's POV once that doesn't mean it will stick. How many times has Quentin warmed up to Oliver and then hated him again?

Chase turning up in William's neighbourhood was a classic cliffhanger, and a good preparation for an episode that will hopefully deal with the season's Big Bad, now that so many Olicity/Dyla issues have been resolved.

I was a bit torn about this. As a cliffhanger, it does make you go "oh crap!", but will they bother explaining how Chase found William? Or are we supposed to believe it because "Chase is so brilliant" (which would be lazy storytelling)? Even Oliver didn't know William's real name and location and Chase is a fugitive with no access to citizen records.

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Imagine if any other woman than Felicity had done the same thing! I have a hunch that he Olicity fandom would have berated her for her fickle/"slutty"/unacceptable behavior..... I mean, Susan was roasted for "crimes" that I didn't even notice. Not to speak of if OLIVER had slept with Felicity, and then declared that it was just a one time thing! But since Felicity can do no wrong, I'm sure her fans will come up with all kinds of extenuating circumstances if they ever come across this criticism. I personally didn't mind that the Arrowcave sex remained a one-time affair....I was rather relieved that it didn't lead to a reconciliation TBH. Also, sometimes people do things against their better knowledge (especially when they are half-drunk!), and it's more honest to admit it straight away, rather than to give a guy false hopes, right?

The less said about the sex scene the better. It reminded me a bit of the Lauliver flashbacks in 4.19, where Oliver and Laurel almost got back together in the aftermath of Tommy's death. The writers were too busy catering to the shippers that they didn't even bother to ponder how much sense it made for Laurel to want to hook up with Oliver at that particular moment. Or, in this instance, how much sense it made for Felicity to be all flirty with Oliver a few weeks after she nuked Havenrock and with the William debacle still fresh in her mind. Misleading Oliver was just the icing on the cake.

[Amarice]

Early ratings are in:

Viewers: 1,59, demo: 0.5

They might go down a bit, since there were preemptions in certain areas.

[joke]Where is that additional billion of viewers that are Olicity shippers and have been waiting for the "real" Arrow to come back?[/joke]

[Kal El's Equal]

Worse episode of the season. It provided no purpose other than sucking up to the Felicity nutjobs who nearly destroyed the show. 1/10.

[Kal El's Equal]

[joke]Where is that additional billion of viewers that are Olicity shippers and have been waiting for the "real" Arrow to come back?[/joke]

Felcity killed them in the nuclear blast

[Shelby Kent]

[joke]Where is that additional billion of viewers that are Olicity shippers and have been waiting for the "real" Arrow to come back?[/joke]

[joke] Sadly, while they are highly capable tweeters, the Olicity-twitter-bots don't seem to watch TV [joke]

[Haggard01]

So my thoughts on this episode?

It was kind of a flat episode for me.

The things I took issue with are the Olicty related stuff obviously, which I think they are setting up for season 6 and also Felcity's typical behavior of chewing Oliver out for lack of trust issues while stitching him up and always saying she backed his play which is completely false.

However I was surprised and did enjoy Felcity apologizing for William and being a hypocrite with the whole Helix thing.

Through I don't think Oliver is on the level of terrorism due to hacking a drone which threatens natural security like Felcity did.

But back we would have heard Felcity apologizing in season 3 or 4, so that's a small win for me.

This episode doesn't really change much for me overall and like I said this episode was just kind of boring.

[Amarice]

[joke] Sadly, while they are highly capable tweeters, the Olicity-twitter-bots don't seem to watch TV [joke]

[joke]What about ferns and other plants? They're fans too. My Dieffenbachia named Laurel watches all tv shows with me. [/joke]

Felcity killed them in the nuclear blast

I thought that everyone in Havenrock were Olicity haters (except for Ragman).

[Shelby Kent]

[joke]What about ferns and other plants? They're fans too. My Dieffenbachia named Laurel watches all tv shows with me. [/joke]

Well, then I hope there was also fern-service in this episode, for Laurel's sake of course

[costas22]

[joke] Sadly, while they are highly capable tweeters, the Olicity-twitter-bots don't seem to watch TV [joke]

Truth be told, "Olicity is rising" was trending last night on twitter. The problem is that Marc and Wendy still don't seem to grasp where all the social media love is coming from and why it doesn't translate to ratings.

[shadow08]

. I am totally perplexed by Diggle's stance on Lyla. I know he's worried about her becoming another Waller, but she doesn't owe him the truth or explanations. She has a job. He doesn't work for her. If anything, it's totally irresponsible of her to cave in to him at all. Putting aside the fact that he's an incredible hypocrite for everything he says to her, Lyla is entirely in the right and he's an idiot. Maybe it's all part of the "you don't trust me" and "I don't want you to end up like me" story angles they're taking with the show right now, but the vastness of his wrongness is so huge that it feels forced and it feels weak that she caves in to him even a little bit by showing him the audit.

Agreed. For the last 2 episodes, I just wanted Diggle to shut up to be quite honest with you. IMO, the Diggle/Lyla dispute would have made sense 5 years ago when Diggle was just an ex-soldier who was desperate to uncork the mystery surrounding his brother's death, but he has done so many questionable things in the meantime (e.g. killing aforementioned brother, beaten people to a pulp for information they didn't have, etc.) that I thought I was entering an alternate dimension when he started to nag like a fishwife. IMO, one of the biggest issues with characters like Diggle and Felicity is that the writers throw storyline after storyline at them, but at the end of the day, nothing seems to stick. Diggle can kill his own brother, but as soon as the storyline is resolved, it's as if the whole thing never happened and Diggle is quickly presented as an upstanding guy again, who gets to sit on his high horse and judge others.

[TheSecretVampire]

This episode only has one saving grace: That Felicity actually and honestly apologizes for being a hypocrite and for crossing the line. The rest of it was 40 minutes of:

- Olicity fan service (there was no point in the sex scene or those flashbacks in general)
- OTA shoutout during the crucial save
- judgmental Felicity knowing better than Oliver (one scene at the end doesn't change what we saw for the rest of the episode)
- awkward Curtis lines
- more pointless Diggle/Lyla melodrama that culminates with them ending up where they were before.
- Tina conveniently knowing something because she worked undercover in a gang (I wonder how many times they will use that crutch to make up for her lack of development)
- retcons designed to make Oliver look bad and Felicity look good: (a) Felicity didn't ask him to join Helix - she did it behind his back! and (b) If she always backs his plays, why did she send the team to prevent him from freeing Diggle?
- the predictable outcome of Felicity (again) being the one who shows Oliver the light after he questions his own morality (again).
- and just an endless and tiresome droning of "You don't trust me", "I trust you" and "I am sorry" between Oliver/Felicity and Diggle/Lyla

Just because an episode ends with the right dynamic between Olicity and Diggle/Lyla, it doesn't erase the dross that came before it. This was season 4 at its finest. And this isn't coming from a comic book fan. Just someone who hates it when this becomes the Olicity show.

1.5/10 Gas leaking in the middle of this episode was so apropos.

Pretty much everything I thought about it, as well. The episode was meh to me....moving on to the next one.

[evaba]

Well, then I hope there was also fern-service in this episode, for Laurel's sake of course

My LAUREL plant (honestly, I have one in my living room window!), who watches "Arrow" with me, would have loved to see the FERN in that scene where Oliver and Felicity are getting it on in the "Arrowcave". She ships her (because the FERN is a she) with Oliver's BOW, and she gets overtaken by FEELS every time they're in the vicinity of each other....their chemistry is simply electrifying!

[Amarice]

Well, then I hope there was also fern-service in this episode, for Laurel's sake of course

I think there is not enough plant representation in "Arrow" since Oliver left the island. I hope that the finale will introduce not only the whole family of the Fern but also some minor characters of different tropical genus.

My LAUREL plant (honestly, I have one in my living room window!), who watches "Arrow" with me, would have loved to see the FERN in that scene where Oliver and Felicity are getting it on in the "Arrowcave". She ships her (because the FERN is a she) with Oliver's BOW, and she gets overtaken by FEELS every time they're in the vicinity of each other....their chemistry is simply electrifying!

I also suspect that my Dieffenbachia ships the Fern with Oneida Kestrel, because she sees amazing chemistry between those two. (And that's why she is in conflict with my bow Diana, because Diana ships Oneida Kestrel with Cupid's Mongol bow). I have also zamioculcas that I named Oliver, but he is in the living room and doesn't ship anything. I think that Felicity would be a perfect name for a fern (obviously) while Carrie would suit to Ivy.

Truth be told, "Olicity is rising" was trending last night on twitter. The problem is that Marc and Wendy still don't seem to grasp where all the social media love is coming from and why it doesn't translate to ratings.

I need to tag 5x20 with #CarriverIsYetToRise and #DoctorPressnallIsNotBackAsOfYet.