"Doomworld" Countdown/LIVE Discussion Thread!

[KSiteTV]

Count down and talk about the DC's Legends of Tomorrow episode "Doomworld" LIVE here!

Extras:

http://dclegendstv.com/tag/doomworld

[costas22]

Is there a point in asking again how the hell we get such huge changes to the Arrowverse timeline yet Arrow and Flash are going on as if nothing's happened? Said it before, but if they want LoT to do its own thing as a show then have it exist in its own universe. Having that show perfectly align with Flash and Arrow every time there's a crossover feels ludicrous in light of what's going on the rest of the season.

That rant out of the way, this episode was a mixed bag. Doing an alternate reality where everything has gone to crap for the good guys is nothing original. And while it was fun to see the Legends in new predicaments, the Legion's decision making left a lot to be desired. Especially in regards to keeping the Legends alive. The only one who seemed to be thinking straight out of the Legion was Thawne. Loved seeing his villainy at work, especially in the scene where he destroys the Spear.

Why does Rip still have his memories in tact?

Amaya's death failed to have an emotional resonance imo because you just know it won't stick.

If time travel can be used to erase the reality that the Spear established, then why did the show make such a fuss over the Spear this whole time? Wasn't it supposed to be something permanent?

That said, I fully expect the Legends to undo the damage next week and without time folding on itself. This show is basically all about them being time pirates and getting away with it (God forbid Barry travels back a day to feed his cat though...).

Felicity's cameo was the best bit of comedy I've seen on this show. From start to finish I couldn't stop laughing.

5/10

[President_Luthor]

I think Oliver's flashback wig did some uncredited guest work as alternate Nate's basement dwelling hair.

And I no longer wonder why LoT's temporal meddling has zero impact on the Flarrowverse. It may as well be in a pocket reality all its own. In a time travel show with little if any temporal rules, I'm not surprised. Savage's temporal games didn't do much if anything and Flashpoint only gave the Flarrowverse a paper cut. LoT just continues this regrettable pattern.

As usual, the fandom made a big brouhaha over Felicity's appearance when it was little more that a cameo easter egg. She didn't even make it out of the opening sequence. Her fans got to see her as a costumed hero, while her haters got to see her neck snapped.

It was hilarious/delicious seeing Sara and Amaya as Darhk's vapid henchmen. Nate got the crappiest hair, while Ray literally got the crappiest job. I think Thawne played the biggest joke on Rip.

Could they be setting the stage for Mick and/or Snart's departure? I can understand why (Prison Break) but it would still be unfortunate for the show if we lose Cold and Heatwave from the team.

Amaya dying should have more resonance, but other than it happened on a show where deaths can so easily be reset, the show hasn't really fleshed her character out. I like the shorter run of this series, but the price is, sadly, many of the characters aren't thoroughly developed.

Thawne was enjoyably diabolical in this ep. It's a wonder why he even needs Malcolm, Darhk and others. They appeared bumbling in comparison.

[costas22]

I'd argue that compared to what's happening on LoT this season, Flashpoint was a cataclysm of massive proportions. At least there were some consequences in that storyline and the percon causing it took accountability for it. These guys are screwing up the timeline, sometimes going decades back to do so, and there are 0 side effects or repercussions. The time wraiths must be on strike...

Personally speaking, Felicity appeared about as much as I expected her to. And she looked just as silly as a masked badass as I thought she would. Didn't expect them to kill her off though.

[President_Luthor]

My gripe with Flashpoint is, while it is the temporal event that had the most "impact" on the Flarrowverse, this impact and consequences are rather miniscule compared to the gravity of the event. The sort of upending and inverting I had hoped to see due to Flashpoint was the stuff we saw, ironically, just now on LoT where they play fast and loose with time. I wanted to see a bit of that role reversal -- heroes become villains, Tommy not Oliver was on the Gambit, Barry being engaged to Patty not Iris, stuff like that. They sold us a temporal apocalypse, what we got so far was temporal stomach flu. Maybe the finale might raise the volume of the fallout, but Flashpoint has largely been a more manageable crisis than it should have been in reality.

Flashpoint should have messed up more than what we were given. Heck, Savage's stuff should have blown back on the whole Flarrowverse (to be fair, it did in Scenario 1 when everyone died). But there should have been more tangible fallout from Savage round 2, even if the good guys survived.

[costas22]

My gripe with Flashpoint is, while it is the temporal event that had the most "impact" on the Flarrowverse, this impact and consequences are rather miniscule compared to the gravity of the event.

Νo arguement there. They played it safe as usual and limited the side effects to a very small circle of people. And it's not even about actor unavailability being an issue because it's something they could have easily worked around. And as much as I disliked the storyline and how it was handled, at least I appreciate the fact that there is some kind of fallout. It's why I said I prefered it compared to what's been happening on LoT this season.

[jon-el87]

Is there a point in asking again how the hell we get such huge changes to the Arrowverse timeline yet Arrow and Flash are going on as if nothing's happened?

This is a time travel show. The events on it doesn't have to take place at the same time as the events on Flash and Arrow. An example would be the episode "Outlaw Country" (aired November 17), which ends with the team being summoned to 2016 to help fight the Dominators. However, said message was sent offscreen during the events of the Flash part of the crossover (aired November 29). Then you have "Turncoat" (aired February 7), where the team celebrates Christmas, in what was February to us. The events (as seen on this week's episodes) on the other shows could thus take place prior to the reality altering. Next week, LoT will be the only show airing. So, any effects from the reality altering (and the reversal of which), might not appear until the other shows come back.

In regards to the episode itself. I'm glad Felicity didn't play a larger part (was worried that they'd make her the hero of the story). Was very amused at how inept she was portrayed at being a vigilante. Though, the best part was when Sara snapped her neck.

For some weird reason I found myself respecting Thawne for destroying the Spear, thus preventing further changes to reality (even by himself). By doing so, he robs himself of a way to ever change reality again, if anything goes wrong. I guess you could say that he displays a degree of maturity we'll never see from Barry, when it comes to messing with the timeline.

Overall, I spent much of the episode waiting for them to reset reality. Altered realities doesn't really interest me. Not only do you know it'll be undone from the start, but I'm more curious to see what happens afterwards. Okay, so you've undone the "Doomworld" reality, but did you manage to completely restore the previous reality? I guess I much rather would've jumped to next week's episode, as that seems to be where everything will go down and I'll finally know if this whole thing leads to [SPOILER]Earth-1 being merged with Earth-38[/SPOILER] (which I've been speculating about for some time).

[costas22]

This is a time travel show. The events on it doesn't have to take place at the same time as the events on Flash and Arrow. An example would be the episode "Outlaw Country" (aired November 17), which ends with the team being summoned to 2016 to help fight the Dominators. However, said message was sent offscreen during the events of the Flash part of the crossover (aired November 29). Then you have "Turncoat" (aired February 7), where the team celebrates Christmas, in what was February to us. The events (as seen on this week's episodes) on the other shows could thus take place prior to the reality altering. Next week, LoT will be the only show airing. So, any effects from the reality altering (and the reversal of which), might not appear until the other shows come back.

Or it's more likely that we won't see any effects on the other shows? Given the fact that Darhk has been removed from the timeline since November and it hasn't changed anything on Arrow this entire time (Laurel's death, Havenrock, etc), it's safe to say that LoT acts like it's in a universe of its own. So I don't believe the reality that Thawne created will ever be brought up on Flash or Arrow.

[President_Luthor]

^This.

I think we're pretty much at the point where we can call b.s. on the notion the Flarrowverse is truly a shared universe. I think the case has already been made that LoT's mission in trying to correct or prevent temporal anomalies borders on indefensible now, when many of their actions in fact cause them.

Time travel effects should be the sort of thing that is felt across all series. In theory. The lack of permanent (or even noticeable) temporal blowback from a myriad of events, with the notable exception of Flashpoint, is the proof in the pudding here. I would actually be impressed if fallout from Doomworld rippled across the entire Flarrowverse and actually had a profound impact on them, but what are the odds we'll even get a taste of that.

Barry might not be wearing a pristine white hat any more as a hero, but his hat is certainly brighter than those that the LoT crew should really be wearing.

(Don't get me started on catastrophes or crises that blow up on one show barely or never registering on other shows. Does Team Flash have a clue about Havenrock or that there even was a (brief) LoA civil war? Does Gorilla Grodd's invasion of Central City even register on Team Arrow's radar? Shared universe, eh.)

The crossovers are the only times the Berlantiverse pretends it's one cohesive universe. The rest of the time, they might as well be on separate earths like SG

[nate-dog1701d]

This was kind of dumb. Why were all those idiots just standing around after Snart killed Amaya? The Spear was right there. You don't just let the bad guy pick it up. And when someone dies, you fight extra hard to get the Spear that can alter reality.

Speaking of, I thought it was clear it altered reality instead of time. All of reality is changed, not just 1916 onward. But now I guess there's an easy fix.

Why does Thawne want to stay in 2017? Normally, it would give him an edge, but he rewrote reality. That's plenty of edge in any time.

If villains rewrite reality, why would they even allow for the existence of cops or heroes? Why would Darhk only want to be mayor or Thawne only want to be a tech billionaire/inventor?

I barely want to touch the ridiculousness of Nate being aware of the former reality or Ray building his magical gizmo.

The villains are a fun bunch. I wish they had better things to do.

Nice homage to the Legion of Doom swamp base.

[jon-el87]

Speaking of, I thought it was clear it altered reality instead of time. All of reality is changed, not just 1916 onward. But now I guess there's an easy fix.

True. Of course, this is a universe where Eobard Thawne was erased from history and yet continues to exist in the past. Sometimes I think the paradoxes caused by this show and The Flash are the only things keeping this universe together.

[nate-dog1701d]

They could use the Spear to erase Flashpoint and all the paradoxes they've caused, but I'm sure they'll just reset reality to how it "should" be.

[jon-el87]

They could use the Spear to erase Flashpoint and all the paradoxes they've caused, but I'm sure they'll just reset reality to how it "should" be.

Or they'll use this opportuinity to merge Earth-1 and Earth-38. I'd go with that as that would result in a "new Earth", where an X amount of the past five years never happened. It would create an opportunity for the bad writing, that I've come to expect the Arrowverse. And they'd probably see it as an opportunity to undo anything they either didn't like or thought ended up bad (making entire episodes and/or storylines non-canon, except for the episodes where those are treated as conon, because the writers can't keep track on what is and isn't canon anymore).

[AsteroidMike]

I really didn't think the episode was going to end the way it end. Pretty dark and I liked it though I'm sure it's not gonna stay that way.

Also, I feel like villain-centric episodes need to be a bit more of a recurring thing in the Arrowverse, particularly with the intro.

[AsteroidMike]

This was kind of dumb. Why were all those idiots just standing around after Snart killed Amaya? The Spear was right there. You don't just let the bad guy pick it up. And when someone dies, you fight extra hard to get the Spear that can alter reality.

Speaking of, I thought it was clear it altered reality instead of time. All of reality is changed, not just 1916 onward. But now I guess there's an easy fix.

Why does Thawne want to stay in 2017? Normally, it would give him an edge, but he rewrote reality. That's plenty of edge in any time.

If villains rewrite reality, why would they even allow for the existence of cops or heroes? Why would Darhk only want to be mayor or Thawne only want to be a tech billionaire/inventor?

I barely want to touch the ridiculousness of Nate being aware of the former reality or Ray building his magical gizmo.

The villains are a fun bunch. I wish they had better things to do.

Nice homage to the Legion of Doom swamp base.

1. I'm guessing they were all in so much shock that Amaya got killed like that, to the point where I actually want him Snart to die.

2. If the Vanishing Point is a place that exists outside of time then maybe it can exist in the same reality in like a safe zone. Maybe? Possibly?

3. They probably know that cops are on their side if they made their own reality and they helped kill off all the heroes, and I'm assuming either Thawne or Black Flash killed Barry, but if Black Flash did then that begs the question how Thawne was able to tame him. However I noticed Wally or Cisco weren't among the victims of Darhk's cronies.

Another note: Neither Darhk nor Thawne has seen "The Incredibles" because they sure like to monologue at bad times. Though not so much for Thawne at the end.