View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Great

    5 45.45%
  • 9

    2 18.18%
  • 8

    1 9.09%
  • 7

    0 0%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    1 9.09%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    1 9.09%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Oliver wasn't the only one being tortured this week.

    1 9.09%
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  1. #31
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    Just a few words on this ep. This is the first episode that I've thoroughly enjoyed for a long time. The Russian flashbacks were exciting, and both SA and Josh Segarra had some really good performances in this ep. As usual the "Arrow" writers have a tendency to hit us over the head with their overarching themes (e.g. Oliver's killer instinct), but it didn't detract from the overall intensity of Oliver's ordeal.

    However, I got a sense of deja vu when Adrian threatened to destroy (or said that Oliver will destroy) the people he loves (making sure to mention Felicity at least three times!), or when Oliver said that he's giving up his crusade. I mean, that's what every season Big Bad says, and also how Oliver reacts every year around this time, isn't it? I'm preparing myself for the compulsary emotional pep talk from Felicity in the upcoming ep, which will give Oliver the moral strength to go up against Prometheus and save himself/the city for the fifth time! As good as this episode was, it did reveal some of the problems that plague the writing, i.e. the recycling of similar story beats and emotional reactions.

    There was quite a lot of Russian in this episode. It sounded quite plausible to me, but I have a hunch that it might not sound satisfactory to a native Russian speaker. However, the writers deserve kudos for at least trying to bring some local color by letting the Russian natives speak a few lines of Russian. Also, any episode that features a half-naked, bruised Oliver in chains will get a plus from me!

    Some trivia: "kapuschong" in Sweden means "hood", and it's a loan from the French "capuchon":

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capuchon
    Last edited by evaba; 03-24-2017 at 04:53 PM.

  2. #32
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    There was quite a lot of Russian in this episode. It sounded quite plausible to me, but I have a hunch that it might not sound satisfactory to a native Russian speaker. However, the writers deserve kudos for at least trying to bring some local color by letting the Russian natives speak a few lines of Russian. Also, any episode that features a half-naked, bruised Oliver in chains will get a plus from me!

    Some trivia: "kapuschong" in Sweden means "hood", and it's a loan from the French "capuchon":

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/capuchon
    I thought the same thing - "Arrow" was truly back to the roots thanks to Stephen Amell's abs. And chains.

    Interesting tidbit about Swedish word! In Polish "kaptur" means "a hood", and in this case it has latin origin.

    I don't speak Russian but due to the similarities (the same language family as my native language) I found some pronunciation extremely weird. But I certainly appreciate that they were at least trying to include more Russian.

  3. #33
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    This was a fun exchange in an otherwise very dark episode:

    http://imgur.com/a/p0vPQ

    The 5X17 flashback scenes are actually one of the few occasions that Merlyn/Barrowman appears on "Arrow" this season. The lack of JB makes me wonder exactly what JB's and KC's "across-the-board" Berlanti-show contracts entail. To me their appearances seem more like cameos than organic (cannot miss the occasion to refer to Guggie's favourite expression!) storylines. What is the point of giving actors season contracts if you're not going to use their characters, except for a few short scenes? On the other hand, depending on how much JB and KC are paid per season, it might be a quite cushion-y way of earning a sizeable sum without having to commit to many hours of filming.
    Last edited by evaba; 03-25-2017 at 10:00 AM.

  4. #34
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    This was a fun exchange in an otherwise very dark episode:

    http://imgur.com/a/p0vPQ

    The 5X17 flashback scenes are actually one of the few occasions that Merlyn/Barrowman appears on "Arrow" this season. The lack of JB makes me wonder exactly what JB's and KC's "across-the-board" Berlanti-show contracts entail. To me their appearances seem more like cameos than organic (cannot miss the occasion to refer to Guggie's favourite expression!) storylines. What is the point of giving actors season contracts if you're not going to use their characters, except for a few short scenes? On the other hand, depending on how much JB and KC are paid per season, it might be a quite cushion-y way of earning a sizeable sum without having to commit to many hours of filming.
    JB has been on LoT often enough to earn his contract IMO. The way I saw it he was a reoccurring guest on Lot and an occasional one on Arrow and The Flash this year. Next year, who knows.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    JB has been on LoT often enough to earn his contract IMO. The way I saw it he was a reoccurring guest on Lot and an occasional one on Arrow and The Flash this year. Next year, who knows.
    My bad! I don't watch LoT, so I didn't consider JB's participation there. However, I still think Merlyn is a lot less prominent on "Arrow" than he was in season three, when he had a lot of on screen presence and importance. I actually don't mind, since I think his character's usefulness on "Arrow" expired a long time ago.
    Last edited by evaba; 03-27-2017 at 02:21 AM.

  6. #36
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    My bad! I don't watch LoT, so I didn't consider JB's participation there.
    Part way into the season JB joined the guy that plays DD and the guy that played Reverse Flash and have been just hamming it up in a deliciously, funny and evil way. I swear, send a character to LoT and they come back rehabbed. I'm a fan of all three of those guys again.

    If I recall, JB had other commitments so he couldn't be in Vancouver to have as much a screen presence this year (which is why he didn't show up until after the crossover episodes). It will be interesting to see if he is around more next year or if he'll be more of an occasional guest from now on.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 03-26-2017 at 11:14 PM.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Maybe I was too harsh...It's probably that season four (both the flashbacks and the present-day action) was so godawful that I didn't pay enough attention to the FB action. Or maybe it was Rotaru's IMHO pretty weak acting and weird "Russian" accent that made me pay less attention than I should have to their shared FB adventures. I just never felt that there was an emotional connection between Taiana and Oliver, and I think I would have felt this way regardless of whether they made love or not. On the other hand, I did feel that Oliver and Shado or Oliver and Island!Sara had a connection, and that Oliver's encounter with them had lasting consequences for him. So, for me Taina was just a woman he met and with whom he spent some pretty uninteresting time on the Island. Maybe that's why it's hard for me to see her as the motivating force for Oliver to go to Russia and endure everything he endured.
    I agree that Oliver's relationship with Taiana was not as close as it had been with say, Yao Fei, Shado or Slade. Still, he took many risks to save her instead of simply killing her to get on with his mission. He killed her brother. They teamed up nevertheless. I think she was more like Akkio to him than like Shado: someone to protect. And when he failed - again - it lead to the same path as his failing to protect Akkio. And just like he didn't feel like going home after Akkio's death and his deeds afterwards he felt he couldn't go home after he had to kill Taiana. And he had that promise to keep.

    As to Oliver being a serial killer - I don't think that fits. Humans do like to kill - otherwise our history wouldn't be as it is. But most humans like to kill to survive and to ensure the survival of those they care for. Or whatever they care for. They don't kill to kill but for a reason. Oliver learned this from Yao Fei, who forced him to kill animals to eat. Later he had to kill Fyers to save Shado. Of course he enjoyed it. Wouldn't be human if he didn't. He protected, he felt powerful after all that time he had been a victim.

    Back in Starling City Oliver didn't kill indiscriminately. He chose his victims very carefully. He didn't even kill anybody on the list without making sure they deserved it and even giving them a second chance. It was only if someone was in the way - like a bodyguard or even those in the presence of Adrian's father - that he killed without giving a second chance, likely because he was on survival mode then and they all were threats.
    Last edited by Freawaru; 03-28-2017 at 03:10 AM.

  8. #38
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    I am not sure but it seems to me that maybe Oliver's true reason for fearing himself is not that he kills and likes to kill but that he does not feel fully in control of himself while he does. This "someone else, something else" is not fully integrated into his awareness of himself. A bit like Hulk, who doesn't even remember himself as Hulk. Though I think Oliver remembers afterwards what he did while he is "someone else, something else" he might not feel in control while he is it.

    I mean, I guess we all had experiences like that, especially during times of mortal danger. The mind and body work without us and we just stand by or even don't recall afterwards what we did. I remember a dangerous situation on a horse when I was a kid. The horse was terrified by a big branch breaking off a tree and would have bolted but somehow we ended up standing still on the other side of a fence with me still on it. My mother told me later we practically climbed sideways over that fence. I had no recollection of it and still don't know what I did to keep that horse from bolting (or how I stayed on it at that).

    Now, while I have no problem with "someone else, something else" keeping horse and myself alive I wonder how I would feel as Oliver when he regains awareness and recollection and people are dead all around him. I think I would be terrified of myself. Think of that scene in the pilot when Oliver almost killed his mother, because she woke him from a nightmare. SA's acting was very intense (IMO): first there was killing mode, then "someone else, something else" recognized his mother as "no threat" and stopped the attack and only then full realisation of what almost had happened hit him. He had had no awareness of his own actions and that feels like no control. He had to trust "someone else, something else" to not do what he wouldn't do.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I also feel that physical pain is less of an issue with Oliver here than psychological/emotional pain. Oliver will heal his body, but his mind/soul has been broken to the point he wants to give it all up.
    I agree. At times it even seemed to me that all over the seasons he almost welcomes physical pain, even when he is tortured. As if he wants to punish himself. Same when Chase tortured him, he seemed pretty okay with that (even made fun of it). Only when Chase hurt or threatened to hurt someone he cares for Oliver shows some real pain.

    We have seen this before, starting with him refusing to give in into torture in Fyres' camp. Later he practically welcomed Slade to kill and torture him after Shado's death. And years later he begged Slade to torture him but let his mother and sister go. It seems to me that his psychological/emotional pain is always so strong that it overpowers any physical pain he might feel.

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