View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Great

    5 45.45%
  • 9

    2 18.18%
  • 8

    1 9.09%
  • 7

    0 0%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    1 9.09%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    1 9.09%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Oliver wasn't the only one being tortured this week.

    1 9.09%
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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Kapiushon?"

    Dead live thread, thanks you all

    Anyway, talk about the episode itself here!

  2. #2
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Brutal but compelling mixed with a little bit of retcon, still, that's just the angle that Prometheus is selling and to which Oliver is currently buying into. I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.

    SA was amazing in the present day scenes. He really brought the emotion. I have no pity left for Evelyn. She's a full on evil villain now.

  3. #3
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    I didn't find it on par with the last 3 episodes, but there was still a lot to like. In terms of flashback heavy episodes, it was definitely better than their last attempt in season 3 (with Slade's half-assed return) although not nearly as good as The Promise or The Odyssey.

    As far as the flashbacks go, it was certainly an eventful episode. Oliver dug deeper into his Hood persona, he became Bratva captain and it looks like his time in Russia is up. I like the fact that they kept Kovar alive because now there's a window open for him to appear in the present now. And I'm glad they did, because I felt kind of cheated after Oliver appeared to kill him in Lundgren's only 2nd appearance on the show. I just hope they don't have Kovar revealed to be Vigilante!

    The present day scenes were all about Chase and Oliver. Josh Segarra, once again, was terrific in his role as the twisted villain. The writing of the character has also been very good, in the sense that Chase has managed to psychologically break Oliver in ways that no one else has. Ιt was one of the most uncomfortable episodes I've watched in a while. And kudos to the writers for remembering Evelyn exists!

    That said, I am not too sold on this big secret that Oliver finally revealed to himself. It's no secret that Oliver's killing in season 1 wasn't only done out of necessity. And it extended to non-List members as well. A good example of this was all the thugs he wiped out when he tried to rescue Laurel from Cyrus Vanch. It's clear that Oliver was drawn to killing and it's something he knew as well (just look at a conversation he had with Diggle earlier this season about how now he only kills because he has to). So I honestly don't see how Oliver could have been startled at this realization. While it's been messy at times, the arc about Oliver's killing tendencies reached a good compromise in last year's finale. I don't like the fact that they are dredging it up again for shock effect (and for Felicity to eventually help Oliver see the light). We are 5 seasons into Arrow and Oliver's dilemma about whether he's a hero or a killer should have been put to rest years ago. The level of Oliver's brutality in the flashbacks was also blown out of proportion, imo.

    6/10.
    Last edited by costas22; 03-23-2017 at 05:28 AM.

  4. #4
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    I thought the present time scenes were great, but the flashback storyline wasn't as compelling to me as the big flashback episodes in seasons 1 and 2. I admit that might also be because I am essentially watching the show for Talia/Lexa now, and seeing her completely absent from the flashback story really grated on me for that reason. Her character has been underutilized in general, but that's sadly par for the course when it comes to female comic book characters and Arrow. They never do justice to any of them.

  5. #5
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Another solid episode, and a flashback-heavy one.

    Chase's psychological mind games with Oliver were intense (Josh continues to impress), as was Flashback Oliver's further descent into darkness in Russia. Maybe it would have been better had they spread out Oliver's increasingly questionable Hood deeds over the course of the season and Anatoly raising concerns earlier -- but I think this was more of a case where they were running short on time and basically had to show him make a hard right turn to Hood territory.

    Oliver's confession wasn't surprising, as we've all known part of the allure of his Hood/Arrow activities was the thrill of it, including killing. But it was still cool to see Chase pry it out of him. While I think Oliver is always going to retain part of this darkness within him -- Anatoly was right, putting on a hood to divide yourself doesn't separate the darkness from you -- Oliver should be at a point where he has found the balance that works. Right now we can loosely describe his m.o. as: killing if necessary, but not necessarily killing. And of course they'll pitch it that only Felicity can help him find the light.

    And who knew Evelyn wasn't already swimming with the fishes but was on-board with Prometheus the whole time. A true believer it seems, not cajoled or pressured into cooperating. She's got to be high on the body count list by season's end.

    I am glad that Kovar made it out alive and Malcolm's association with him I guess grants Malcolm a potential 10th (11th? 12th?) life as a relevant character on Arrow, specifically. I'm also open to the possibility that Talia gets to finish what her father started and finally deal with the rogue once and for all.

    Episodes like this and the previous ones demonstrate why the notion of Arrow participating in a filler musical episode like Duet would be completely out of context for this show esp. this season, and at the tail end when Prometheus' plan is coming to fruition. Flash's Savitar may be content scarfing scones at CC Jitters during it, but do we really think Prometheus would put a hold on his scheme ... for Music Meister? He's been gunning for Felicity and William, taking full advantage of the lull, during a theoretical Oliver solo acoustic cover of 'Paint It Black'.

    I'd say Arrow chose wisely to keep its eye on the ball storywise, and not cook up a convenient loophole in S5 just to get Arrow involved in a Glee fan service ep.

  6. #6
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    To be fair P.L., Prometheus did take a vacation of his own while Oliver was busy fighting aliens or going on trips to Hub City and Russia. Big Bads fade away for substantial chunks of the season. It's one of the reasons why this kind of storytelling trick has grown tiresome for me.

  7. #7
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    On another topic, Barrowman fans can't complain. He appeared quite frequently across the Arrowverse this week!

  8. #8
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    I just found this hilarious tidbit in a review, concerning the writers' flip-flopping about Oliver's killings:

    but what about all the endless “I kill because I have to”/”I’ll no longer kill because Tommy wouldn’t want me to”/”Totally killing again and loving it”/”I promise not to kill again. I just want to stay home and make sweet, sweet love with Felicity”/”Killing’s back on the menu, folks” back-and-forth over the past 5 years? That suggests he has a conscience. He’s not a sociopath.
    The reviewer also points out that the relationship between Taiana and Oliver was so shallow and ultimately meaningless that it's odd how he would go all the way to Russia to avenge her. Anyway, I just hope that the writers will let Oliver be dark and messed-up for a while, rather than sweeping the whole issue of his killer mindset under the mat. I mean, it's not altogether unlikely that they'll let Oliver have another ride into the sunset with the Love of his Life and the Woman Who Will Heal all his Wounds (and who is able to make him forget the thirty-something human beings that he has killed so far!). It's episodes like this which make me wonder how anyone can even indulge in fluffy fantasies about Olicity babies and a blissful domestic life for Oliver and Felicity....
    Last edited by evaba; 03-23-2017 at 10:07 AM.

  9. #9
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I think the alien invasion was the time Chase had to get his house fumigated for termites. Can't mess with Oliver's mind when your house's foundation is being eaten away daily. I don't even think he knew there was an invasion, he came back to the office Monday morning and nearly spit his coffee out when he saw the headlines.

    Darhk also took a bit of a break in S4 as LoT was ramping up. At least with him, he did give some throwaway line to lamely explain his absence ... and Team Arrow spent the next few episodes name-dropping him relentlessly.

    Not even an email from Savitar. He was probably jealous he wasn't invited to the musical -- he was going to do something from 'Rent' to audition, when he learned that he wasn't going to be in Duet. Now he's really angry.

  10. #10
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    I really enjoyed this episode. After all that mayor stuff eps (I hope they will be over soon) this was digging deep into Oliver's psyche again.

    Liked the flashbacks, Oliver really is the Hood now - Anatoly is great, too. Good idea to show Malcom doing his own things back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Oliver's confession wasn't surprising, as we've all known part of the allure of his Hood/Arrow activities was the thrill of it, including killing. But it was still cool to see Chase pry it out of him. While I think Oliver is always going to retain part of this darkness within him -- Anatoly was right, putting on a hood to divide yourself doesn't separate the darkness from you -- Oliver should be at a point where he has found the balance that works.
    This

    I still wonder why it was so important to Chase that Oliver confessed it. And to Thalia and Artemis. And who else is in this...

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    The reviewer also points out that the relationship between Taiana and Oliver was so shallow and ultimately meaningless that it's odd how he would go all the way to Russia to avenge her.
    It seems to me that Oliver still has Slade Wilson as his role model: "I keep my promises".

    Also, I don't think that the relationship between Oliver and Taiana was shallow, just because they didn't have sex. They teamed up to fight against the same enemy, they trusted each other, they saved each other's lives, and he killed her because she asked him to.

  12. #12
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    Also, I don't think that the relationship between Oliver and Taiana was shallow, just because they didn't have sex. They teamed up to fight against the same enemy, they trusted each other, they saved each other's lives, and he killed her because she asked him to.
    Maybe I was too harsh...It's probably that season four (both the flashbacks and the present-day action) was so godawful that I didn't pay enough attention to the FB action. Or maybe it was Rotaru's IMHO pretty weak acting and weird "Russian" accent that made me pay less attention than I should have to their shared FB adventures. I just never felt that there was an emotional connection between Taiana and Oliver, and I think I would have felt this way regardless of whether they made love or not. On the other hand, I did feel that Oliver and Shado or Oliver and Island!Sara had a connection, and that Oliver's encounter with them had lasting consequences for him. So, for me Taina was just a woman he met and with whom he spent some pretty uninteresting time on the Island. Maybe that's why it's hard for me to see her as the motivating force for Oliver to go to Russia and endure everything he endured.

    I'll quote the review, just to give you an idea of my line of reasoning:

    In retrospect, the fact that his Russian adventure has all been in service of avenging that one girl he kind of knew on the island for a while works even better now. It used to seem like a poor foundation for a season-long storyline because, let’s be honest, Oliver was never really all that close with the girl before she died. Is his sense of honor so powerful that he would pursue her oppressors to the death? Or is it just that he needed an excuse, any excuse, to kill, and then carried that over into the season 1 version we remember doggedly killing people off of his father’s enemy’s list? Killing, “Kapiushon” argues, has never been the means to whatever end Oliver is working toward at any given moment. Instead, killing is something he enjoys. He’s a serial killer.
    Last edited by evaba; 03-23-2017 at 11:31 AM.

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Arrow_47's Avatar
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    3/10. Just found this to be sloppy writing. Timeline for Chase to become a lawyer and then a DA in less than 3.5 years is too big a leap to buy into this storyline. It seems like once again they didn't know who they wanted Prometheus to be, so somewhere along the season they made it Chase. The fact that Chase had used the same phrase, word for word, that Gregor used when Oliver shot him would only make sense if there was a connection between the two of them. If not, it comes across as the writers directing the dialogue at the audience rather than to the characters. Also, Chase didn't want to kill Oliver, he wanted to destroy him. Nothing that was done by Chase would have caused Oliver to stop being who he is. In fact, it would only embolden him to pursue Chase even more. The only reason he said he quit at the end is because the writers made him quit. His character personality would not give up just because he was forced to say, "I like killing." But, to each their own. Glad so many of you enjoyed it.

  14. #14
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    The scenes in the current timeline between Adrian and Oliver were great. Very intense. Some stuff was actually disturbing. The focus on the flashbacks was okay, it's good that we had again this type of the episode. Again some disturbing elements (skining that guy alive, damn). "Arrow" doesn't show much gore but I think with this episode they've gone as far as they could on CW. I admit that I thought that Adrian killed Evelyn (but still I had at the back of my mind that they can't kill a teenage girl in the show like "Arrow"... ah well...).

    Pity that the conclusion doesn't make much sense for me, and the whole "I like killing", Oliver's confesion, him shutting everything down because of that confession... yeah, sure. Psychologically-wise and character-wise it didn't make much sense, and I can write a separate professional observation why I think so. Anway was prepared for that thanks to spoilers posted in the spoiler section, so it didn't bothered me much.

    Overall:



    Doctor Pressnall is needed as asap as possible.

    I really don't know how I should rate the episode. 10/10 on intensity scale. But 5-7/10 for sense&logic.

  15. #15
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    It has to be noted that Oliver said he "liked it" past tense, not current tense. I think he really was only lost and caught up in the power and effectiveness of killing at the height of his trauma at the start of season one, not that he ever has been someone that actually gets off on killing. Liking aspects of killing after spending five years fighting fir his life and constantly feeling powerless isn't the same as being like Dexter Morgan who all his life has to satiate his need to kill. Even if in he liked killing on some level at first in season one, he's not that person any more.

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