"Arrow" hits another ratings' low

[evaba]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/daily-ratings/wednesday-final-ratings-march-15-2017/

i.5 million viewers and a 0.5 demo. It seems like the post-season four downward spiral continues, which is a pity since the last ep was really good and well-received. My impression is that "Arrow" has found its (diminished) audience, and that it will never get the kind of ratings it had in the past seasons. So, it's gone from being the superhero sensation it was in season one to another run-of-the-mill lowrated CW show. Of course, the CW doesn't really seem to care about 'live' ratings that much, unless they go below a certain threshold (I doubt that "Arrow" will be renewed if goes below 0.5 in the sixth season). So, maybe some of the actors (e.g. Willa Holland, who's had her screen time diminished anyway) will be prepared to leave the sinking ship, at least of they get a better job offer on another series?

[Amarice]

Mhm... No Cupid this time in the episode. (: A curse is broken the same way that poor Carrie's heart got broken when the Arrow turned away her feelings! What do you make of this, Holmes?

Anyway, it's a pity that season 5 is paying the price for an awful season 4. But it illustrates hard truths about vigilante's life. It's never easy and there is no justice. Unless you take it in your own hands.

[costas22]

That's the thing. Too little too late. It's really a shame that the last 3 terrific episodes are paying the price for Arrow pissing off its fans (from every group) during season 4. And just when they had steadied the ship during 5A, they pull the garbage episode with Black Siren followed by the pointless appearance of the new Black Canary and they lose an average amount of 300.000 viewers again.

Keep in mind though, ratings haven't been particularly good across the Berlanti-verse as of late. It's not just Arrow that did a series low this week. The Flash is experiencing a collapse of its own, with the last 2 episodes being the lowest rated in the show's history. As a matter of fact, the show has lost almost 1.5 million viewers since this time last year! Unlike what's going on with Arrow, this is an example of a ratings decline reflecting the quality decline of a show.

Supergirl and LoT's latest 2 episodes also also had series lows in viewership.

[TyrantLord]

That's the thing. Too little too late. It's really a shame that the last 3 terrific episodes are paying the price for Arrow pissing off its fans (from every group) during season 4. And just when they had steadied the ship during 5A, they pull the garbage episode with Black Siren followed by the pointless appearance of the new Black Canary and they lose an average amount of 300.000 viewers again.

Keep in mind though, ratings haven't been particularly good across the Berlanti-verse as of late. It's not just Arrow that did a series low this week. The Flash is experiencing a collapse of its own, with the last 2 episodes being the lowest rated in the show's history. As a matter of fact, the show has lost almost 1.5 million viewers since this time last year! Unlike what's going on with Arrow, this is an example of a ratings decline reflecting the quality decline of a show.

Supergirl and LoT's latest 2 episodes also also had series lows in viewership.

Arrow dug its own grave. Ironic, I know. But their problems are from a lot more different reasons. That's what happens when arrow's show runners pisses on all of its fan bases.

The other shows are their own different stories as to why the declines. Everyone's already getting tired of the same ole same ole routine the one trick ponies at the CW do.

With Flash, the villain's ALWAYS a speedster, and the speedster's identity is always kept secret, but it's always someone who was on team flash at one point who ends up betraying the group. Great cast or no, sooner or later that formula gets stale. Use something/someone different as a main villain for a change other than evil speedsters. Let Mirror Master get his hologram toys and cause chaos for a while. Hell, let Grodd take the mantle as seasonal villain. SOMETHING different for a change would be nice.

Supergirl suffers from a variety of problems. Weather it's Kara's growing "Nobler Than Thou", and often, hypocritical nature, Alex's "out of the blue" and clearly only for lgbt crowd gay turn (an unnecessary distraction from the show's weekly plots as 3/4 of the time Alex's love life is just filler for the episode and has nothing to do with the show's plot), Cat Grant not being around (for understandable reasons but all the same causes the show to suffer), going to overboard with feminism...need I go on as to why things are sliding down hill for this show?

Legends tries to be good, but mostly comes short. All it does overall is give the CW DC TV C and D grade characters that would otherwise bloat the other shows something to do. If they wanted a team up show, they really should have tried to fight harder for JLA characters for a JLA show. Season 1 was meh with SOME improvement for season 2...but can it improve enough, in time? If not this show is going to find itself a very early season 3 cancellation as this show is easily the weakest of the group and most expendable.

[BkWurm1]

Anyway, it's a pity that season 5 is paying the price for an awful season 4. But it illustrates hard truths about vigilante's life. It's never easy and there is no justice. Unless you take it in your own hands.

Sorry but season 5 managed to suck all on it's own.

[President_Luthor]

The CW network's ratings have never been the greatest. Has anyone seen the ratings for 'The 100'? They are anemic.

I feel the downturn is a reflection that the Berlantiverse brand as a whole is at some saturation point. They should hold off on expanding their TV universe. "More superheroes!!!" doesn't equal better. LoT may be a prime example here of TPTB maybe diluting the product too much, it's become the weakest of the group. I don't know if they will make it past a S3. And sadly, Flash (once touted in the fandom as the frontrunner or the "best" of the bunch) isn't that far behind either. SG is similar, no immunity for her either.

They're all (too) similar, and there lies the problem.

There was a brief time when it looked like we're getting a variety of flavours with the different shows, but the longer they run ... they all become pound cake. We're getting essentially four nights of pound cake now, where we can almost predict that there will be secrets, lies, action and melodrama in now-familiar and formulaic scenarios.

I feel S5 Arrow is trying its darndest to not be pound cake this year, with the consensus (SA included) that this season was make-or-break. Arrow is the show that, in theory, is most unlike any of the others and looking back, I would have preferred it was on an alternate earth like SG. I don't know which brain trust thought veering Arrow closer to Flash territory tone-wise from S3 onward was a good idea.

Maybe Arrow will sign off in a season or maybe two and I think they must have some notion of the series' endgame at this point.

Flash still has to get to five seasons, still likely but I'm nervous about it. As for LoT and SG, how likely will they get to a mythical Ep. 100 if they start pulling in 'The 100' -scale ratings for weeks on a regular basis?

[evaba]

Sorry but season 5 managed to suck all on it's own.

In general, it seems like the non-shipper fandom thinks this season is a real improvement over season four. The majority of the fans that I've seen complain about season five are the Felicity/Olicity/OTA peeps, who think there is too little Felicity/Olicity/OTA. For those of us who don't consider these three elements as the supposed "core" of a Green Arrow television adaptation, their reduced role has been something of a blessing. I'm not saying that season five is up to season one or two standards, and some aspects look more like a desperate attempt to make us believe that "Arrow" is great again by throwing in some gratuitous S1 references. However, the flashbacks have certainly been more interesting than the dismal season four flashbacks, and Josh Segarra's Prometheus is IMHO a much more intriguing Big Bad than Dahrk (although McDonough did his best with the poor writing he got).

And I have actually liked Oliver this season, as opposed to last season, where I felt he lost his personality when he was forced into this marriage plot relationship drama with Felicity. If anyone has seemed like a pod person this season it's Felicity, who apparently can go through all kinds of hardships and trauma without having any discernable character growth. I don't know if the pretty obvious return to Felicity's season one/two character portrayal was a conscious "damage control" decision on the writers' part (all during S3 and S4 fans complained about Felicity crying too much and being too melodramatic) or because they're trying to give Felicity storylines that will suit EBR's strength as an actress (or at least not expose her weaknesses). So, I would agree that EBR didn't get much character development this season.....however, I prefer this more low-key approach to her season four dominance and all the unnecessary Felicity character shilling.

[shadow08]

It doesn't matter what the writers do moving forward - Arrow will never see 2 million viewers again outside of crossover episodes. The show has simply pissed off way too many people over the last few years and while season 5 is certainly an improvement compared to seasons 3 and 4, the writing continues to be repetitive and way too superficial/stupid in nature. I think what gets me the most about this show is it's inability to properly showcase it's whole cast. I know it's unfair to compare a CW show to a series like Lost, but I think it's appropriate in this case because Lost used to have a main cast comprised of 13 or 14 main characters and yet, it's writers found a way to showcase all of them over the course of a 22-episode season. Then I look at Arrow and it's 8 main characters and I can only shake my head: Outside of Oliver and Felicity, nobody seems to get real character arcs and in the case of Felicity, her arcs tend to be poorly executed and ultimately pointless because they never seem to leave a lasting impression on her. As soon as her storyline(s) gets wrapped up, her character goes right back to the status quo. Quentin has been dealing with the same issue since the beginning of the show. Thea's "storylines" are usually more about the men in her life than Thea herself and most of the other main characters are cyphers that we know next to nothing about. I think if the Arrow writers were more skilled at character-driven storytelling and didn't suffer from foot-in-mouth syndrome, they wouldn't be in this mess right now.

I feel the downturn is a reflection that the Berlantiverse brand as a whole is at some saturation point. They should hold off on expanding their TV universe. "More superheroes!!!" doesn't equal better. LoT may be a prime example here of TPTB maybe diluting the product too much, it's become the weakest of the group. I don't know if they will make it past a S3. And sadly, Flash (once touted in the fandom as the frontrunner or the "best" of the bunch) isn't that far behind either. SG is similar, no immunity for her either.

They're all (too) similar, and there lies the problem.

There was a brief time when it looked like we're getting a variety of flavours with the different shows, but the longer they run ... they all become pound cake. We're getting essentially four nights of pound cake now, where we can almost predict that there will be secrets, lies, action and melodrama in now-familiar and formulaic scenarios.

I actually made a similar point in the other "series low ratings" thread. For all of Arrow's issues, I think the greed on part of the CW has ultimately damaged the longevity of their entire DCverse. 4 DC shows that run simultaneously from October till May are simply too much and because they have the same people working on all of these shows, they all tend to display the same flaws and recycle the same character/story beats. It's like if you have watched one of these shows, you have essentially watched all of them. They really need to bring in some new blood with fresh ideas if they want to salvage anything of what's left.

[Carmine-Infantino]

Personally, I've already quit watching Arrow and Supergirl. The Flash is on thin ice with me, and Legends is the only show I really like this season. I doubt I'll be back for any of the shows next season,there are far better shows to watch. Amazon has some really great shows, Sneaky Pete is quite good, as are the pilot episodes of Oasis and The Marvelous Mrs Maisel.

[President_Luthor]

I think too many characters and not enough effort in developing most of them is a universe-wide problem now, not unique to Arrow any longer.

Arrow may have been the canary in the cave in this regard as the senior series, so the problem of not giving secondary characters enough storywise has unfolded already -- but we could build a veritable roster of secondary characters across all series who are simply treading water/warming the bench/idling in the fast lane.

Diggle, Quentin and Thea are running on fumes as Arrow characters IMO, it's a pity, and it is not enough for me to see them do the usual post-S5. I feel Arrow's time to cull their roster is end of season or S6 premiere at the latest, frankly, and not even the veterans should be immune. Use 'em -- or lose 'em. I feel S6 is the time where Arrow has a rare clean slate opportunity to set a new course without that 5-year-arc baggage. If one (or even all!) of them do not fit into the post-S5 narrative, then I think the choice is clear. No mercy.

Yeah, fans may love one or all of them, they're "favourites" etc., but if the show no longer has fresh ideas for them -- do we really want to see the vets condemned to spinning their wheels a season or two longer? It's because I do love the characters that I feel such a fate is worse than being killed off and they'd deserve better than being continually sidelined as background noise.

But STARLabs, the Waverider and the DEO are also too crowded as-is and they'll need to choose to either give their second bananas something worthwhile storywise or cut bait and thin the herd, if managing too many characters is a problem for them.

[DJ Doena]

I just read this discussion at 6 in the morning and a lot ot it strikes historical notes with me, especially the topic of under-used characters who overstayed their welcome (narrative-wise).

Smallville season 7. Anyone? I know it was the year of the writers' strike. But even without it felt as if the writers didn't really know what to do with Kara, Lex and Lana. Heck, they didn't even know what to do with Clark!

[Amarice]

Sorry but season 5 managed to suck all on it's own.

Sorry to say but from my viewpoint your viewpoint is influenced by shippers' viewpoints. (:

You see, since you seem to think that comic book fans like Rebirth because it's about "Green Arrow moaning about its pretty bird" I somehow have serious doubts if we can ever come to agreement about what's the most important in GA's story. Season 5 is far from being perfect but I see a considerable improvement over season 3 and (especially) season 4. It's not as good as season 1 and season 2, but at least watchable, and some episodes were really good.

[KSiteTV]

Please be sure to post threads like these in the individual/appropriate episode forums.

I may be totally wrong, but I don't think shippers or favorite characters have a whole lot to do with ratings in this day and age. You could get an episode that is really loved that would still do badly in the ratings, and vice versa. "Olicity" isn't happening and Katie Cassidy isn't appearing on the other CW shows, all of which are down.

I DO agree with the person in this thread that suggested there may be a fatigue to these things. 4 DCTV shows (with a fifth possibly on the way) *is* a lot to ask of the average TV viewer. It might be easier to cut the cord on watching a show, or it might be easier to just stick with the one show that still makes you happy, rather than continuing on with something that doesn't satisfy. That was a problem Smallville never really had, because there was really no alternative, at least on The CW, for people to go to.

[TheSecretVampire]

Season 5 is a success for me because the main villain is great and there is no Olicity garbage (at least to this point) which I'm enjoying.

[DJ Doena]

I never really understood how the storyline of one particular episode would reflect the ratings of that particular episode. But then again, I know too little about how the Nielsen box actually works. How would I know that this weeks' episode is good or bad before I actually watched it?