View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - I ate it up

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  • 9

    3 27.27%
  • 8

    1 9.09%
  • 7

    2 18.18%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

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  • 4

    1 9.09%
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  • 1 - Yuck

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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "The Sin-Eater?"

    Such a bummer when no one participates in the live threads... but, you can talk about "The Sin-Eater" here, I guess!

  2. #2
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    The problem is that Arrow's existential crises used to be meaningful, and now they're just tedious. I should care one way or the other about what Thea did and why, about what Oliver is doing and why, about what Felicity is doing and why. The brutal fact is that I simply don't...at all...beyond how the show links up for crossover purposes.

  3. #3
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    I'm not even convinced that Thea did anything wrong. So far the evidence all pointed to Susan just using her relationship with Oliver to investigate him. It's not like she's expressed any regret over that. It's not like we say her hemming or hawing about what she was doing or backing off. Her biggest regret seems to be that now that she's discredited she can no longer publish what she found out about him.

    At the start of the Season Oliver killed a guy just because he knew his secret. Thea seemed to be going about it in a much kinder manner. The big issues is the Oliver is convinced he was handling it, but he was actually doing nothing beyond that one denial that Susan didn't buy into for a second.

    And Oliver suddenly claiming he can tell who can know his secret is a load of BS. She confronted him and he decided that no, Susan shouldn't know his secret. So to claim later otherwise is ridiculous, as was using Quentin as an example. He never told Quentin. Quentin found out and then then tried to arrest him and only because they convinced Quentin's superiors that he was wrong did Oliver get away with his secret. Quentin kept trying to expose him, only no one listened and eventually he backed off because of his daughter and slippery slop morals exposed with DD.

    Dinah is proving to be kind of underwhelming. But the team pushing her to be the New Canary is funny in how creepy they are all coming across, lol. She's not interested in that yet, lol.

  4. #4
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Still a much better episode than last week. It felt like Arrow. I gave it only a seven since Oliver remains dumb as a box of rocks.

  5. #5
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    I found it to be a very solid episode. No PSA and no romantic melodrama (not a lot of it anyway!). A crime thriller at its core.

    The Thea storyline will probably be the big talking point coming out of this episode. Raissa above made a good point that Arrow, with its repeated flip flopping on morality issues, has conditioned its fans not to care about our heroes crossing the line. Personally speaking, I've tried not to fall into that trap over the years, which is why I found Thea's actions towards Susan deplorable. Susan is no angel, but Thea had no rights to go through such lengths on a mere suspicion that Susan would out Oliver. Yes, she gathered evidence, but Thea never even wondered why Susan hadn't released it this entire time (even though she could have) or why she asked Oliver first about it. And regardless of all that, by destroying Susan's reputation, Thea became the same kind of vulture she thought Susan was. The fact that she went behind Oliver's back was also annoying, but then again, everyone goes behind Oliver's back these days. The most mind boggling thing in all this is that it came out of left field as far as Thea is concerned. This season was supposed to be about her being in a better place. If they are doing a dark storyline with her, similar to Felicity, it's been very poorly set up.

    Anyway, by the looks of things, the Oliver/Susan romance is over and Susan will probably become an adversary of sorts for Oliver. It was kind of predictable though. Any love interest who stood in the way of Olicity would either die or become a villain. For me it just doesn't work though because while Susan has done shady things, I never considered her a nasty character. Just someone who was attracted to Oliver and who couldn't keep her journalist's curiosity in check. And if anything, this episode garnered more sympathy for her.

    Felicity's part in this was funny more than anything. Never thought I'd see the day Thea dupe her. I don't like Felicity, but given how she's been written over the years, her characterization here was really weak.

    Glad to see they will be addressing Oliver and Adrian's cover up next week. It's been a controversial situation ever since the fall finale. Although, I still feel that they are not making a big enough deal out of the fact that Oliver killed Billy!Prometheus in cold blood. Which is why it made me laugh when Oliver assured Claybourne's mother that he doesn't plan to kill him.

    Nice to see more of Quentin this week. Like Thea, he's been a very underutilized character this season. There was one thing that made me roll my eyes though: Quentin going out on the field, working side by side with the Green Arrow and attempting to arrest people even though he's no longer a cop. Not for nothing, but this actually happened in front of Pike's strike force and no one even raised an eyebrow over it.

    Rene and Curtis came in the right doses this week.

    I liked the villain trio a great deal. They meshed well together.

    Still having a difficult time being remotely interested in Tina.

    The flashbacks were a bit bland this week.

    7/10. Despite its flaws, it was a good episode to come back with after last week's mess.
    Last edited by costas22; 02-23-2017 at 02:22 AM.

  6. #6
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    For me it just doesn't work though because while Susan has done shady things, I never considered her a nasty character. Just someone who was attracted to Oliver and who couldn't keep her journalist's curiosity in check. And if anything, this episode garnered more sympathy for her.
    I saw it differently. We were presented with a character that in her first introduction stabbed Thea in the back over a story. And we learned that she was digging into Oliver even after she agreed to hold off on her hatchet pieces on his administration. And then she pushes for a personal relationship to try to get more info from him and has people that are on his staff and even in his security watching him and reporting back to her.

    It even looked like she pushed for them sleeping together so she could get a look at his tattoo and in case if we were wondering if she perhaps was having second thoughts on her investigation after taking their relationship to the next level, we see her meeting with her PI and continuing in her probing right after.

    Susan then in this episode after complaining about Oliver perhaps avoiding her, then asks him if he's the GA. He lies and laughs in her face. Oliver tells everyone he's handling it and that he's got it handled, but he does nothing.

    It took Felicity seconds to find out that Susan knew exactly who he was. And we know she's been digging into this story for months. We also know that Thea's first hand experience with her was that she pretended a personal friendship but that the story always came first.

    No, Susan hadn't pulled the trigger yet, but even though Thea didn't have absolute proof that Susan was going to publish, Thea still had more reason to support her belief that Susan would than Oliver had in believing that she wouldn't. Planting the data and getting her fired and discredited was a big step, a nuclear option if you will, but there's been nothing in the narrative to suggest that Susan and Oliver's relationship was serious enough for her to abandon a huge story she'd been working on it for months, just having a personal relationship hadn't been enough for her to stop looking for dirt on him. And now he was acting more distant and canceling on her. Nothing about the set up suggested that Thea misread the situation.

    Did she go overboard in fixing the problem? I'm still really not sure. She ruined her professional life. That's a lot, but part of the reason why Thea quit this year was the line that Oliver found acceptable in keeping his secret, killing, was something she couldn't support. Thea found a way to shut down the problem without Susan dying. Perhaps with time they could have come up with a way to ensure Susan didn't talk but time was not something they could know if they had. The file was damning and waiting or giving Susan a heads up that they knew she knew could have meant they'd have been too late to stop her from going public.

    So again, was Thea wrong? The show gave us Susan's repeated actions weighed against Oliver just having a feeling. What evidence do I have that Oliver was right when all these months just him dating her has been an act of stupidity? He asks Thea to trust his judgment while refusing to trust either Thea or Quentin's about Susan. He should never have gotten involved with her in the first place and now that it was coming around to bite him in the arse, instead of being upset that Susan had been investigating him and lying to him about it all this time, he's focusing on how Thea still must be wrong not to trust her???

    Anyway, by the looks of things, the Oliver/Susan romance is over and Susan will probably become an adversary of sorts for Oliver.
    50/50 Oliver doesn't seem to have given up on their relationship yet so if she ever listens to him, they might absolutely get back together. If that happens, I'm hoping that she's doing it just to play him but chances are they will play it as if Oliver would have been totally right in trusting her even though they showed the audience no reason to believe that.

    Still, I'm sure they will be over by the end of the season. She's no more permanent or real than Billy. It was funny when they told Quentin about Billy. I don't think he even knows Felicity was dating him, just that he was a cop that died, lol.

  7. #7
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    I saw it differently. We were presented with a character that in her first introduction stabbed Thea in the back over a story. And we learned that she was digging into Oliver even after she agreed to hold off on her hatchet pieces on his administration. And then she pushes for a personal relationship to try to get more info from him and has people that are on his staff and even in his security watching him and reporting back to her.

    It even looked like she pushed for them sleeping together so she could get a look at his tattoo and in case if we were wondering if she perhaps was having second thoughts on her investigation after taking their relationship to the next level, we see her meeting with her PI and continuing in her probing right after.
    True, but like I said, this could all be attributed to her being a nosey reporter. For me, it's hard to be completely critical of Susan because:
    a) We can only assume what her true feelings for Oliver are. You think she pushed for a relationship to find out more about him whereas I feel that to an extent she did care for him. Albeit, didn't care enough to stop digging into his past.
    b) We still have no evidence that she was planning to go public with her information. Obviously Thea thought so, but when it comes to Susan, she's just as biased against her (due to the stunt you mentioned) as Oliver is in her favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Susan then in this episode after complaining about Oliver perhaps avoiding her, then asks him if he's the GA. He lies and laughs in her face. Oliver tells everyone he's handling it and that he's got it handled, but he does nothing.
    I have to give Oliver a pass here. For all he knew at that point, Susan was just making a wild assumption. So he brushed it off and that was the only thing he could do at that point. He didn't know that she had the evidence she had. If he did and still opted to do nothing, then I would have criticised him for it.

    And here's where Thea is also at fault. Why doesn't she tell him about her discovery before she decides to nuke Susan's career? Maybe Oliver would have come up with a better solution if knew the full extent of Susan's investigating. Instead, she acts on her own because she doesn't have enough faith in her brother that he can assess a dangerous situation without blinders. Not for nothing, but Oliver never takes the protection of his identity lightly.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Did she go overboard in fixing the problem? I'm still really not sure. She ruined her professional life. That's a lot, but part of the reason why Thea quit this year was the line that Oliver found acceptable in keeping his secret, killing, was something she couldn't support. Thea found a way to shut down the problem without Susan dying. Perhaps with time they could have come up with a way to ensure Susan didn't talk but time was not something they could know if they had. The file was damning and waiting or giving Susan a heads up that they knew she knew could have meant they'd have been too late to stop her from going public.
    That's the thing though. In her own way, she did handle the situation the way the Hood would have. She (figuratively) shot to kill in order to fix the problem. And what's worse is that she didn't even go after Susan with anything legit (which at least would have been somewhat justified). She used false allegations to ruin her. Again, even if Susan had the worst of intentions for Oliver, how is Thea any better after her actions here? It's always a theme on these shows (at least it should be) that the heroes should be on a higher pedestal than the people they are fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    So again, was Thea wrong? The show gave us Susan's repeated actions weighed against Oliver just having a feeling. What evidence do I have that Oliver was right when all these months just him dating her has been an act of stupidity? He asks Thea to trust his judgment while refusing to trust either Thea or Quentin's about Susan. He should never have gotten involved with her in the first place and now that it was coming around to bite him in the arse, instead of being upset that Susan had been investigating him and lying to him about it all this time, he's focusing on how Thea still must be wrong not to trust her???
    I do agree on two points here. He shouldn't have gotten involved with Susan (strictly because it's a conflict of interest) and he should have been upset with her for investigating him.

    All this said, there's still the matter of the vodka bottle in Susan's living room. Supposedly that wasn't a random camera shot, so it could still play into Susan's storyline in the future. In what way, we can only speculate.

  8. #8
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    Anyway, by the looks of things, the Oliver/Susan romance is over and Susan will probably become an adversary of sorts for Oliver. It was kind of predictable though. Any love interest who stood in the way of Olicity would either die or become a villain. For me it just doesn't work though because while Susan has done shady things, I never considered her a nasty character. Just someone who was attracted to Oliver and who couldn't keep her journalist's curiosity in check. And if anything, this episode garnered more sympathy for her.
    I think you're a 100% right there. It is painfully obvious that both Malone and Susan are mere props, put there in order to make Felicity and Olicity shine even more. I mean, the writers did not only make Susan shady, but they also made her downright stupid. If their aim is NOT to hammer in Felicity's superiority, why would they make Susan use a totally obvious password/file name?

    http://imgur.com/a/RZ6iA

    I would also venture that Felicity's supposedly "dark" storyline will not in any way make the other characters confront her or make her realize that she might have gone about the wrong way doing something. I'm sure the writers will continue their tradition of coddling Felicity, and never make the other characters or herself question her choices....that kind of treatment is clearly reserved for Oliver (and maybe Laurel in the past).

  9. #9
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    This was more like the Arrow ep I'm used to seeing. Not perfect, but a good ep.

    The action was good, though Quentin acting like a cop was a bit nonsensical since he no longer has a badge.

    Everyone but Dinah wanting her to be BC was amusing. Who says you even need a mask anyway -- half of SC knows Diggle was running around with Hood/Arrow long before he got his helmet. And now they know Quentin rolls with GA.

    Oliver going to see Prometheus mother (assuming Clayborne isn't a red herring) didn't work for me, did he actually think she'd sell him out? Going there just adds more reason for others to be suspicious about Oliver.

    While Thea's job requires her to protect the Queen administration and politics is a bloodsport, she did cross a line that she should know would ultimately make Oliver look worse. Susan being a love interest of her brother is mere salt to the wound. The hacking of her computer was silly, but the question remains: shouldn't they know better? And once you add the factor that she did this to someone that he cared about, I don't see how he would see it as anything other than a betrayal of trust. To paraphrase Cisco, it's not illegal to be mad at Thea when she does wrong -- and she did wrong here, no matter how well intentioned she believes she was. She threw someone's career and life under the bus for political gain, and Ollie was right: this was something from Moira's playbook.

    Susan may have possessed incriminating evidence, but she hadn't released it and may never have released if they were still an item. His lying about it to her in face of overwhelming evidence was a DB move, so any fallout lands on him too. It's ten times worse now, she could pull a Snowden and just dump this on the Web, Wikileaks style. Yeah, well played Thea and Felicity.

    Maybe if they'd shown Thea do increasingly objectionable things over time to protect Oliver's administration then maybe they could have sold Thea making one judgment call too far. As it stands, it looks like she and Felicity were cool with making a bigger wrong to try to do something right. That they were so quick to do it was unsettling, but like others have said, the team's goalposts for what is right and wrong keep shifting ... to the point where Thea screwing over Susan looks like a "greater good" aka Susan lost her career and reputation but it's to protect Ollie's secret so it's okay.

    This is really a moot point now because Oliver's indefensible act here, orchestrating a cover up of Billy's death, is more than enough ammunition to bring down the Queen city hall. In trying to protect his GA secret, he has sullied his reputation as Oliver Queen, which I find ironic. The Oliver is GA scandal would be just more tabloid fodder after this.

    If he's lucky he'll just be drummed out of office. Worst case is criminal charges for the Billy cover up, plus charges for years of Hood/Arrow/GA crimes if his secret is exposed. Maybe Oliver could be doing the perp walk by season's end?

  10. #10
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Pretty weak episode, IMO.


    While it was great to see China White and Cupid again, those 2 and Liza Warner were a bad mix together. I wish had things gone differently with Black Siren, that this would've been a episode where she teamed up with China and Cupid. I have nothing against Liza Warner, but she's a pretty weak villain to be paired with likes of China and Cupid.


    Also, I had no issues with what Thea did to Susan Williams. Sure, she ruined her career, but Susan had that coming. In time Oliver will get over it.

  11. #11
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I think you're a 100% right there. It is painfully obvious that both Malone and Susan are mere props, put there in order to make Felicity and Olicity shine even more. I mean, the writers did not only make Susan shady, but they also made her downright stupid. If their aim is NOT to hammer in Felicity's superiority, why would they make Susan use a totally obvious password/file name?

    http://imgur.com/a/RZ6iA
    Forgot about that. I think both characters were poorly developed (Billy more so than Susan). Coming and going in episodes before you had a chance to blink. Which is why a lot of us viewers are left here wondering what Susan's intentions truly were or how she felt about Oliver. There was no flow to her appearances: one episode she's investigating him, the next she's asking him out, the next she's supporting him in his time of need, the next she's still looking up on him, etc).

    Anyway, if Susan does return, I feel that eventually it will be revealed that she had bad intentions and Thea was justified to do what she did. After all, one of Arrow's consistent themes is that Oliver is in the wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I would also venture that Felicity's supposedly "dark" storyline will not in any way make the other characters confront her or make her realize that she might have gone about the wrong way doing something. I'm sure the writers will continue their tradition of coddling Felicity, and never make the other characters or herself question her choices....that kind of treatment is clearly reserved for Oliver (and maybe Laurel in the past).
    I have the same suspicion, especially given Arrow's track record of having Felicity always be right, but I'm on a wait and see basis. If Oliver was this upset with Thea for her actions, common logic says that he won't let Felicity off lightly. So at least he should be alarmed. Not sure about Dig, Rene, Curtis and the rest of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Susan may have possessed incriminating evidence, but she hadn't released it and may never have released if they were still an item. His lying about it to her in face of overwhelming evidence was a DB move, so any fallout lands on him too. It's ten times worse now, she could pull a Snowden and just dump this on the Web, Wikileaks style. Yeah, well played Thea and Felicity.
    This is actually an excellent point. Yeah, she's been discredited and her word is not good for a lot, but she still has a platform to release to reveal her incriminating evidence. Not sure why Oliver and Thea immediately supposed that any threat Susan posed was neutralized. And now she actually has an ax to grind. If Susan does go on the war path, I wonder if Thea will feel guilty about it, just like Oliver usually does when he thinks he "created" a villain.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Maybe if they'd shown Thea do increasingly objectionable things over time to protect Oliver's administration then maybe they could have sold Thea making one judgment call too far. As it stands, it looks like she and Felicity were cool with making a bigger wrong to try to do something right. That they were so quick to do it was unsettling, but like others have said, the team's goalposts for what is right and wrong keep shifting ... to the point where Thea screwing over Susan looks like a "greater good" aka Susan lost her career and reputation but it's to protect Ollie's secret so it's okay.
    To be fair, Felicity's hands are relatively clean here. She did hack Susan's computer, but she's probably hacked every computer in Star City by now. That's all she did (in lightining quick time I might add ) and Thea took it from there without telling Felicity anything. If Felicity is undergoing a dark turn, odds are that she probably supports Thea's actions. But on this episode's evidence, we don't know what her stance is.

    It's actually weird that something major like this happens in an episode and we don't get Felicity's viewpoint on it.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    If he's lucky he'll just be drummed out of office. Worst case is criminal charges for the Billy cover up, plus charges for years of Hood/Arrow/GA crimes if his secret is exposed. Maybe Oliver could be doing the perp walk by season's end?
    Hope not. I kind of like his storyline as mayor and I hope it continues next season. Obviously it's a flawed arc and a lot of stuff is a bit ridiculous to believe, but Oliver's mayoral run has given Arrow something that it's lacked since season 2: It's brought the focus back on citizen Oliver Queen.

    That said, he should face some repercussions for covering up the Billy ordeal. No doubt about it. This isn't something that should be wrapped up with a feel good inspirational speech about how he wanted to protect the Green Arrow's integrity to the public.

  12. #12
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    If Susan was playing Oliver the entire time, with even the relationship as part of some gambit to get information, then Thea served her a comeuppance. But I don't get the sense that it was a fake relationship and I think Oliver essentially blew his chance when he defaulted on his 'not telling truth is still lying' mode when he had the chance to fess up to her.

    They were both stupid in thinking what they had could gloss over any conflict of interest, this is where I'd fault them. They should know better.

    If we were to apply real world standards -- Thea and Felicity hacked someone's personal computer and slandered someone's reputation to the point where her career is over. Whether she "deserves" it is a matter of opinion -- the deeds themselves make Oliver and his administration look bad. The chief of staff lost the confidence of the mayor. The proper thing would be for Thea to tender her resignation, or failing that, for Oliver to ask for it.

    With the Billy cover up in public, I would think many members of city hall would actually quit ahead of getting smeared by the crap storm about to hit Mayor Queen.

    But it's not the real world and Thea gets a pass because she's only looking out for her brother and keeping the GA identity a secret? Susan, as cunning as she appeared in the beginning, was sitting on the evidence and did nothing with it. If her affection for Oliver kept her from acting before, what happened to her is prime motivation for doing what everyone feared, again assuming she goes the revenge route. And of course, Felicity's hand in it is downplayed as her "dark" arc explains her readiness to throw Susan under the bus.

    Oliver and Susan were ridiculous in thinking that their personal and professional lives wouldn't clash. But, Thea made a series of wilful choices here. Was her hand forced? I wouldn't say so, at least not before the GA evidence was out in public. She pulled a Moira move here. Nope, she gets no pass on it from me.

    It was high time Oliver gets called to task on the Billy cover up. This is administration-ending stuff, and rightly so. All the GA identity stuff is extra kindling in comparison.

  13. #13
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    I have to give Oliver a pass here. For all he knew at that point, Susan was just making a wild assumption. So he brushed it off and that was the only thing he could do at that point. He didn't know that she had the evidence she had. If he did and still opted to do nothing, then I would have criticised him for it.
    She told him it came up in the course of another investigation. This wasn't a wild spec. And even if it appeared to come out of the blue, Oliver's secret affects the whole team. He had a obligation to the rest of them to start looking into if Susan was really a problem or not. Instead he did nothing and that led to Thea stepping in because he refused to even look into the problem.

    Thea perhaps went too far or too fast...or maybe she didn't, we don't know for sure one way or the other but what ended up bothering me the most was how blind Oliver is to his own actions.

    He told Thea she didn't make a mistake, she made a choice and it reminded him of someone. I really thought he was going to say himself and give her a "be better than me" speech since Oliver acting unilaterally and deciding what's best for others without consulting them has been his jam for years now. How can he pretend Thea's doing something too much when his own actions have mirrored or been worse than hers this time around?

    I guess I'm looking for some self awareness or proof that the guy keeping his head in the sand about the kind of threat Susan could pose wasn't the real Oliver. I hate how stupid he's been. Maybe we can find out that the real Oliver is locked in a some basement while Human Target took over his life. After all, HT is the one that was interested in Susan in the first place, not Oliver, lol.

  14. #14
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    I thought it was a pretty solid episode. Didn't care much for the villainous trio...they were easily the least interesting part of this ep (I would have actually much preferred China White returning on her own - she's the villain with the most history with Oliver, and its the first time we've seen her since Season 3 - when we learn Oliver met her in the Hong Kong in the past - so I feel there was some potential there for a more interesting story that was wasted).

    As far as the Thea/Susan thing goes - well, there's two sides to it. As a plot point, I think it was brilliant! The Oliver/Susan relationship obviously wasn't going to last and clearly Susan's investigation into Oliver was going somewhere...this new development just spirals that particular story thread into an interesting new direction. And the notion of Thea becoming a new Moira is fascinating to me, and IMO makes for a more interesting character than her being yet another vigilante. I had premonitions of Thea eventually becoming like her mother back in Season 3, and I'm glad to see it come to fruition.

    When it comes to the morality of it though - well, obviously, morally its a pretty dubious thing. By any conventional standards of morality, its undoubtedly wrong. But not only do we not live in an ideal world (in real-life, or in the Arrowverse) but on this show, conventional morality barely applies anyway (special episodes on gun control notwithstanding!) Yes, Thea is going down a slippery slope with ruining Susan Williams' life and reputation...but is it better or worse than Oliver extorting, and failing that killing, criminals and corrupt individuals on a List? Or Felicity intentionally redirecting a nuke to a city with a smaller population that nonetheless resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths? How about the team spending months harboring a terrorist responsible for the deaths of 503 people, culminating in Oliver handing him the reins of perhaps the deadliest terrorist organization in the world? Where does right and wrong begin and end for these people?

    There are other dimensions to consider - was Thea acting in her capacity as the mayor's Chief of Staff, to protect him from scandal? As an ex-Team Arrow member helping safeguard the secret? Or as Oliver's sister, doing her best to protect her brother from someone she considers unsuitable for him? Or as someone simply exacting a petty vengeance against a reporter who crossed her once? I dunno what the true answer is - maybe there isn't one. Human beings are complicated in real life, and its sure great when characters reflect that complexity.

  15. #15
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    I thought it was a pretty solid episode. Didn't care much for the villainous trio...they were easily the least interesting part of this ep (I would have actually much preferred China White returning on her own - she's the villain with the most history with Oliver, and its the first time we've seen her since Season 3 - when we learn Oliver met her in the Hong Kong in the past - so I feel there was some potential there for a more interesting story that was wasted).

    As far as the Thea/Susan thing goes - well, there's two sides to it. As a plot point, I think it was brilliant! The Oliver/Susan relationship obviously wasn't going to last and clearly Susan's investigation into Oliver was going somewhere...this new development just spirals that particular story thread into an interesting new direction. And the notion of Thea becoming a new Moira is fascinating to me, and IMO makes for a more interesting character than her being yet another vigilante. I had premonitions of Thea eventually becoming like her mother back in Season 3, and I'm glad to see it come to fruition.

    When it comes to the morality of it though - well, obviously, morally its a pretty dubious thing. By any conventional standards of morality, its undoubtedly wrong. But not only do we not live in an ideal world (in real-life, or in the Arrowverse) but on this show, conventional morality barely applies anyway (special episodes on gun control notwithstanding!) Yes, Thea is going down a slippery slope with ruining Susan Williams' life and reputation...but is it better or worse than Oliver extorting, and failing that killing, criminals and corrupt individuals on a List? Or Felicity intentionally redirecting a nuke to a city with a smaller population that nonetheless resulted in hundreds of thousands of deaths? How about the team spending months harboring a terrorist responsible for the deaths of 503 people, culminating in Oliver handing him the reins of perhaps the deadliest terrorist organization in the world? Where does right and wrong begin and end for these people?

    There are other dimensions to consider - was Thea acting in her capacity as the mayor's Chief of Staff, to protect him from scandal? As an ex-Team Arrow member helping safeguard the secret? Or as Oliver's sister, doing her best to protect her brother from someone she considers unsuitable for him? Or as someone simply exacting a petty vengeance against a reporter who crossed her once? I dunno what the true answer is - maybe there isn't one. Human beings are complicated in real life, and its sure great when characters reflect that complexity.

    On the whole, a solid hour of television. The flashbacks were a tad underwhelming - I missed Talia and Oliver's origins as the Hood. But it was great seeing Oliver be a badass and take down a bunch of Bratva thugs single-handedly. Now THAT's the guy who, a few months later, will start his one-man war against Starling City's crime and corruption!

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