He didn't comment on science fiction fans as compared to other fans. He only made the observation that he came to understand the science fiction fans as quarrelsome, contentious and with a tendency to split into hostile factions. This doesn't exclude him thinking the same about other types of fans. He didn't address his thoughts or experiences, or if he even had any, about other types of fandom.
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I find it interesting that it's continually claimed they didn't take a stand on the issue, they did. Without spelling it out directly to see exactly where they stood one can still see it was at least a position slightly left of center. This was made clear by stating rights have limitations, the US is the only western culture (that I know of, I haven't researched ALL abortion laws in the world) that one can legally abort a pregnancy shortly before giving birth without the risk of the mother's well being (although I don't know why they conflated legal rights with constitutional rights other than to prove there are limitations to rights). I won't go into the PC culture limiting our 1st Amendment which isn't a limitation imposed by the amendment. There are ways to help limit gun violence without infringing on the 2nd Amendment which doesn't require compromise from pro gun advocates yet these measures aren't deemed going far enough or that they are discriminatory to those the left wishes to champion (the mentally ill in this case) by gun control advocates. Let's take those steps first before we impose limitations which do take away from our rights.Last edited by DoubleDevil; 02-19-2017, 02:09 AM.Comment
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I find it interesting that it's continually claimed they didn't take a stand on the issue, they did. Without spelling it out directly to see exactly where they stood one can still see it was at least a position slightly left of center. This was made clear by stating rights have limitations, the US is the only western culture (that I know of, I haven't researched ALL abortion laws in the world) that one can legally abort a pregnancy shortly before giving birth without the risk of the mother's well being (although I don't know why they conflated legal rights with constitutional rights other than to prove there are limitations to rights).Comment
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What is the cost for abortion in Sweden for foreigners? Is it legal to get an abortion? How do I book one? We guide you through this process.
Here is a pretty illustrative map over the abortion rights in various areas of the world. I have the impression that the US has roughly the same abortion laws as most European countries, although the procedure might be more difficult, due to insurance matters, or purposive stalling (as the Texas cases mentioned in the Guardian).
Have a question? Get in touch directly Take it with you Download attachment: The World's Abortion Laws Mission The Center for Reproductive Rights uses the
Religion and culture help determine the rules, which range from tight restrictions to terminations virtually on demand until the point of viability
I know this is wildly off-topic, but just like @Shelby I was puzzled by DD's comment.Last edited by evaba; 02-19-2017, 08:45 AM.Comment
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So just to add a bit of context to what you have shared about the timing of abortion in Sweden, here in North Carolina abortion after 20 weeks is banned, unless it is undertaken b/c of health/threat to life of mother (which certainly is not to say that in those cases it is mandatory; a mother may certainly still choose to continue w/ pregnancy even if it threatens her life/health...)
Also, to put the time-frame within context of length of pregnancy, ACOG has defined full-term pregnancy to be 39 wks 0 days to 40 wks 6 days (most optimal time for best health outcomes), with distinctions made for other categories ranging from "early term" to "post-term" (with specified time frames of gestation for each category; overall range of which is 37 wks thru 42 weeks). Not sure if European Obs might be using different categories, so only confine this to ACOG guidelines for over here.
I don't believe that OBs generally (or at least none that I know, nor neonatologists that I know) would consider 20 weeks to be "shortly" from a health-outcomes medical or biological perspective.
Personally, I don't consider 20 weeks out of a 39-40 week time period, to be "shortly" from a temporal perspective. And that's all I'll say about that. Again, not trying to get into a debate here!Comment
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So just to add a bit of context to what you have shared about the timing of abortion in Sweden, here in North Carolina abortion after 20 weeks is banned, unless it is undertaken b/c of health/threat to life of mother (which certainly is not to say that in those cases it is mandatory; a mother may certainly still choose to continue w/ pregnancy even if it threatens her life/health...)
After the 18th a woman needs a permission from the National Board of Health and Welfare (Socialstyrelsen) to have an abortion. Permission for these late abortions is usually granted for cases in which the fetus or mother are unhealthy. Abortion is not allowed if the fetus is viable, which generally means that abortions after the 22nd week are not allowed.Last edited by evaba; 02-19-2017, 04:33 PM.Comment
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Thank you both evaba and shelby for correcting me, obviously I was falsely informed on the subject of abortion. I personally have no need of such a procedure therefore I didn't research it as diligently as I should have. It still doesn't explain why the showrunners conflated legal rights with constitutional rights.Comment
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Thank you both evaba and shelby for correcting me, obviously I was falsely informed on the subject of abortion. I personally have no need of such a procedure therefore I didn't research it as diligently as I should have. It still doesn't explain why the showrunners conflated legal rights with constitutional rights.
Meanwhile, I think your point about conflating legal rights with constitutional rights is very interesting. I am not at all well-versed on aspects of that topic and it would be interesting if I did bit of reading about that before watching. I haven't yet decided if I want to watch this ep, but if I do, then my viewing experience will no doubt be much richer, after having had the opportunity to read all the discussions and perspectives presented on this board. (Translation: if I watch I will try harder to pay attention to the issues presented by posters here [including the legal vs. constitutional undertones you noted] and maybe focus a little less on how much or how little Felicity & Curtis are annoying me in the episode, lol)Comment
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Well, I think we just had a discussion about one aspect of a very complex and nuanced subject. I am sure there are other aspects about the topic, about which you are quite knowledgable.
Meanwhile, I think your point about conflating legal rights with constitutional rights is very interesting. I am not at all well-versed on aspects of that topic and it would be interesting if I did bit of reading about that before watching. I haven't yet decided if I want to watch this ep, but if I do, then my viewing experience will no doubt be much richer, after having had the opportunity to read all the discussions and perspectives presented on this board. (Translation: if I watch I will try harder to pay attention to the issues presented by posters here [including the legal vs. constitutional undertones you noted] and maybe focus a little less on how much or how little Felicity & Curtis are annoying me in the episode, lol)
It was an episode I chose to watch to see how mature the show has become since I quit watching. I wasn't convinced, neither by the story telling nor the handling of the political material, yet I believe I'm in the minority here as far as things like this topic goes not that it matters. I'll voice my opinions when I deem it appropriate but don't want to silence anyone.Comment
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http://worldabortionlaws.com/map/
Religion and culture help determine the rules, which range from tight restrictions to terminations virtually on demand until the point of viability
I know this is wildly off-topic, but just like @Shelby I was puzzled by DD's comment.
A few months ago there was a wide-spread protest against proposed restrictions called Black Monday (inspired by women's protest in Iceland in 1975).
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Very soon Poland will be marked with the darkes hue of red, as "prime examples" for the current government how the law should look like is Northern Ireland. And El Salvador. In the worst case scenario anti-abortion law in Poland may become so strict than in practice it will allow to put women in jail for having a miscarriage.
A few months ago there was a wide-spread protest against proposed restrictions called Black Monday (inspired by women's protest in Iceland in 1975).
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...d-restrictions
We've stuck with issues brought up in the show itself so far but I think it would be wise for all of us (myself included) if we move on to the usual chatter here.Comment
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It still doesn't explain why the showrunners conflated legal rights with constitutional rights.
That and MG was clearly a sh!t lawyer, lol.Comment
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I believe they tried bringing up the comparison to driving and drivers licenses but shot that comparison down right away just before bringing up abortion and the 1st Amendment. They noticed the difference between rights and privileges. You could be right on the first point and I'll agree 100% on your 2nd, MG better keep his day job. [emoji2]Comment
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