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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    New Black Canary?

    Should "Tina Boland" be Arrow's new Black Canary?

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Sure-Oz's Avatar
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    No.

  3. #3
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    For me, there shouldn't have been a new Black Canary, period. Regardless of what her real name is. Laurel should have been the last one. And it's not just the fact that this is a disservice to Laurel. It's the fact that a Black Canary just doesn't work on this show anymore. With Felicity being the alpha female of Arrow, the Black Canary (whether it's Laurel or Tina) will always be a marginalized character and just one more member of an extremely crowded Arrowcave.

  4. #4
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    The only way I see Black Canary receiving the respect that character is warranted and deserves on Arrow is if Felicity Smoak would take up the mantle yet that in itself would be a huge disrespect to the character so that I believe the character should be left out of this adaption of Green Arrow. Now if the Berlantiverse were to bring us a Black Canary/Birds of Prey spinoff then I could see another introduction of the character yet as far as Arrow is concerned even with her own show Black Canary now should have nothing more than occasional guest appearances.

  5. #5
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    They can call her Dinah Drake if they want, but she's not Laurel and she's not Laurel's mother, Dinah. Her name might as well be Jenna "Jax" Jackson as far as I'm concerned. She's a new creation being used to cover up something that went on behind the scenes and not because the story organically flowed in that direction.

    Were I them, I just would've changed the color. They already have a White Canary and a Red Arrow. Might as well have made her Red Canary or something like that.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular Pulsayr's Avatar
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    Thing is, is that White Canary exists in the comics as a villain to Black Canary. There has never been another colored canary. What I don't like is the fact that we've spent all of this time with Laurel and her progression as a character, and as soon as she's getting really good development and growing as a hero, she's killed off. They knew right away that they wanted to do Black Canary in Arrow. Because Black Canary is such an important character in the Green Arrow mythos. What they should've done from the beginning is give Laurel the personality of Black Canary in the comics. They could've developed her through the series and build her up as a hero. They even had Wildcat in a season training her. Which is what happened in the comics and why she's an expert in boxing (she also has a black belt in Judo). Then when Barry Allen entered the show and the whole thing with the particle accelerator happened, she could've been visiting Central City for whatever reason and got hit. Then you spend the rest of that season with her dealing with the change and her powers, then the following season make her Black Canary. Boom. Done.

  7. #7
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    Considering Tina is Dinah Drake and they've seemingly off to a good start with her chracter then I would say yes, make her the new Black Canary.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 02-04-2017 at 04:26 PM.

  8. #8
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulsayr View Post
    Thing is, is that White Canary exists in the comics as a villain to Black Canary. There has never been another colored canary. What I don't like is the fact that we've spent all of this time with Laurel and her progression as a character, and as soon as she's getting really good development and growing as a hero, she's killed off. They knew right away that they wanted to do Black Canary in Arrow. Because Black Canary is such an important character in the Green Arrow mythos. What they should've done from the beginning is give Laurel the personality of Black Canary in the comics. They could've developed her through the series and build her up as a hero. They even had Wildcat in a season training her. Which is what happened in the comics and why she's an expert in boxing (she also has a black belt in Judo). Then when Barry Allen entered the show and the whole thing with the particle accelerator happened, she could've been visiting Central City for whatever reason and got hit. Then you spend the rest of that season with her dealing with the change and her powers, then the following season make her Black Canary. Boom. Done.
    Laurel doesn't need to have the exact personality of the BC comic character, as long as she's the actual character. Not to mention that she matches up with the personality of all BC adaptions I've seen pretty decently. The writers don't seem to want to grasp the fact that BC is a singular family title. The name Dinah Drake doesn't automatically make her a suitable BC. Especially considering that Dinah Drake is, whether the show ever acknowledged it or not, Dinah Laurel Lance's mom. And considering that it isn't Drake's character. Unlike some would say, this isn't the New 52 version, because that isn't Dinah Drake, as established in Rebirth. It's DLL, just bearing the name DD. And the only reason that is, is because reality was tampered with. And also considering that Drake wasn't the 4th Dinah in the New 52, or the 2nd Dinah to be the BC, wasn't given the title by GA, no version of Drake has ever been a cop who was tortured whose partner was murdered, wasn't a multiple killer offender and she wasn't the 3rd Canary in general. The name, along with having it in this way being stupid and poorly written, doesn't make it the character. Sara could've been the BC, as long as the name was the only thing that was really different about the character. Though having a different name would be pointless if she had every other major character part, but that's neither here nor there. Laurel is still the best adapted and only real BC this show has had. Having a sonic scream and cool fighting abilities doesn't make a character BC. Just like cool fighting abilities and shooting arrows doesn't make a character GA. Or having cool fighting abilities and a bat costume doesn't make a character Batman. Or having a character who wears red and blue and flies doesn't make them Superman. The character's origins are apart of their characters. GA is stranded on an island. BM sees his parents murdered. SM is sent to earth from the dying krypton and raised by farmers. You don't have that, you don't have the characters. This show isn't an elseworlds. It's an adaption. And in adaption you respect the protagonist character's origins. Have a very great day! God bless you all!
    Last edited by Dagenspear; 02-04-2017 at 03:52 PM.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular Pulsayr's Avatar
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    Laurel should've had a very similar personality as Black Canary in the comics, and even at times in the first season displayed such personality as well as showing to be an adequate fighter. Having fighting abilities and a sonic scream is definitely what Black Canary is. Black Canary in ALL adaptations in the comics had amazing fighting prowess and a canary cry (even though Dinah Drake pre New 52 didn't have it at first but got it years later). Personality and abilities is what makes these characters who they are. It'll be like having a Flash show with Barry Allen who is an angst filled jerk that doesn't have super speed. They done quite a bit to actually show she is Black Canary, but they crapped on it.

    Also, the origins don't always make the character. For Batman, Superman, and Green Arrow, you're right. It's a huge part of their characters. For Black Canary? Nope. She's had a couple different origins. Both of which could be used. Pre New 52 Dinah Laurel Lance lived with both her parents with a father who was a cop and taught her things and trained under Wildcat. In the New 52 and current origin, Dinah Laurel Lance (whose name was Dinah Drake and briefly married into the name Lance) was dropped off at foster care at the age of 4 moving from foster home to foster home until she ran away at the age of 10 and was found by a martial artist who gave her a place to stay at his dojo and trained her. Also, in the New 52 she was a part of Team 7 as a Covert Ops agent and actually married her partner who ended up dying.

    So we have two comic accurate adaptations of Black Canary for the most part. One that is more in line with the Pre New 52 and one that follows more of the New 52 continuity. I wouldn't be surprised if Dinah Drake in the show talks about how she grew up in foster care.
    Last edited by Pulsayr; 02-06-2017 at 02:17 PM.

  10. #10
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulsayr View Post
    Laurel should've had a very similar personality as Black Canary in the comics, and even at times in the first season displayed such personality as well as showing to be an adequate fighter. Having fighting abilities and a sonic scream is definitely what Black Canary is. Black Canary in ALL adaptations in the comics had amazing fighting prowess and a canary cry (even though Dinah Drake pre New 52 didn't have it at first but got it years later). Personality and abilities is what makes these characters who they are. It'll be like having a Flash show with Barry Allen who is an angst filled jerk that doesn't have super speed. They done quite a bit to actually show she is Black Canary, but they crapped on it.
    Not at all. Powers get taken away and returned and skill levels change. And personality traits change. Batman is lighter in some versions than in others, but he's always Batman. Batman having the canary cry doesn't make him Black Canary. And Superman having bat gadgets doesn't make him Batman. And Oliver have heat vision and flight doesn't make him Superman. This is a total double standard. Either all heroes are held to same principles or none of them are. If BC isn't held to by origin then why is Green Arrow? The hero character's origins are what bind them. Take that away and it's not the character. Meanwhile though Laurel has displayed the personality that I've seen most adaptions of BC display.
    Also, the origins don't always make the character. For Batman, Superman, and Green Arrow, you're right. It's a huge part of their characters. For Black Canary? Nope. She's had a couple different origins. Both of which could be used. Pre New 52 Dinah Laurel Lance lived with both her parents with a father who was a cop and taught her things and trained under Wildcat. In the New 52 and current origin, Dinah Laurel Lance (whose name was Dinah Drake and briefly married into the name Lance) was dropped off at foster care at the age of 4 moving from foster home to foster home until she ran away at the age of 10 and was found by a martial artist who gave her a place to stay at his dojo and trained her. Also, in the New 52 she was a part of Team 7 as a Covert Ops agent and actually married her partner who ended up dying.
    Yeah, but none of that is her being a cop whose origin is connected to her boyfriend dying. And that origin isn't her real one, because reality was tampered with, creating a false reality for all the characters. It wasn't real.
    So we have two comic accurate adaptations of Black Canary for the most part. One that is more in line with the Pre New 52 and one that follows more of the New 52 continuity. I wouldn't be surprised if Dinah Drake in the show talks about how she grew up in foster care.
    Again, that's not her real backstory in New 52. That's a false backstory from a tampered with reality. This is like saying Flashpoint Batman is a suitable Batman backstory, when it isn't. Have a very great day!

    God bless you all!

  11. #11
    Forum Regular Pulsayr's Avatar
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    The reason Green Arrow's origin along with Batman's and Superman's is more important and rooted to their characters then others is because it's cemented in their characters. It's been that one constant throughout the years. For other characters, it's different. Look at Wonder Woman, who has multiple different origins (which they are trying to fix in Rebirth). Even The Flash has had two different origins. Also, personality defines the character. Even in Injustice Superman had a very similar personality to the main continuity but was a victim of circumstance and went down a path he couldn't escape from. Batman has been a lighter tone before but has always kept his personality.

    They took the concept of her New 52 backstory and altered it slightly. So instead of Covert Ops, she was an undercover cop. The show went with a more believable variant that made sense for the show.

    Again, that is her real backstory in the main continuity. You can't say it's a false backstory when it actually happened. In case you didn't read Rebirth, DC Rebirth is still in the New 52 continuity. Years were stolen. Lost. 5 of those years are still missing and unknown. They still dealt the world around them and went through real things. You're argument with Flashpoint Batman is invalid. That timeline was created briefly as a plot device and changed. Thus no longer being existent. New 52 continuity is still going. It's staying until or if they decide to reboot again. The whole point of DC Rebirth is to keep the New 52 continuity while bringing back things from Pre New 52 that others loved. So that everyone is pleased. New 52 is a real continuity whether you like it or not. New 52 Superman died. Yet we have Pre New 52 Superman who has been in the New 52 Continuity since the beginning watching everything unfold in the background.

    So again, Black Canary's backstory in New 52 is real. It's a real reality where those things happened to her and it's still being applied and used. It doesn't just magically go away.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulsayr View Post
    The reason Green Arrow's origin along with Batman's and Superman's is more important and rooted to their characters then others is because it's cemented in their characters. It's been that one constant throughout the years. For other characters, it's different. Look at Wonder Woman, who has multiple different origins (which they are trying to fix in Rebirth). Even The Flash has had two different origins. Also, personality defines the character. Even in Injustice Superman had a very similar personality to the main continuity but was a victim of circumstance and went down a path he couldn't escape from. Batman has been a lighter tone before but has always kept his personality.

    They took the concept of her New 52 backstory and altered it slightly. So instead of Covert Ops, she was an undercover cop. The show went with a more believable variant that made sense for the show.

    Again, that is her real backstory in the main continuity. You can't say it's a false backstory when it actually happened. In case you didn't read Rebirth, DC Rebirth is still in the New 52 continuity. Years were stolen. Lost. 5 of those years are still missing and unknown. They still dealt the world around them and went through real things. You're argument with Flashpoint Batman is invalid. That timeline was created briefly as a plot device and changed. Thus no longer being existent. New 52 continuity is still going. It's staying until or if they decide to reboot again. The whole point of DC Rebirth is to keep the New 52 continuity while bringing back things from Pre New 52 that others loved. So that everyone is pleased. New 52 is a real continuity whether you like it or not. New 52 Superman died. Yet we have Pre New 52 Superman who has been in the New 52 Continuity since the beginning watching everything unfold in the background.

    So again, Black Canary's backstory in New 52 is real. It's a real reality where those things happened to her and it's still being applied and used. It doesn't just magically go away.
    A very good post and does give me information whatever is going on in the comics book world. That's stuff is confusing to keep up with.

    Fair warning about the guy your responding to? Just don't and save yourself the trouble. I've had more then one conversation that has led to him being put on my block list, for a few reasons. He hasn't watched the show since season 4, and comes to various forums to argue.

    In regards to his views on Black Canary/Laurel? You will never get him to even agree to disagree because he picks and chooses with whatever his head canon is with everybody else is wrong since his views are always "fact".

  13. #13
    Forum Regular Pulsayr's Avatar
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    So he's one of those guys that doesn't listen to logic and fails to admit when he is wrong? Got it. I'm glad you enjoyed my post and got some information out of it. Glad to be useful. ^_^ If you're interested in DC comics I highly recommend a lot of the Rebirth stuff. It keeps in line with the New 52 continuity but a lot of the first issues give a nice recap of the character and what goes on so you're less confused. Also YouTube channels like ComicsExplained and Comicstorian are amazing at giving good insight

  14. #14
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulsayr View Post
    The reason Green Arrow's origin along with Batman's and Superman's is more important and rooted to their characters then others is because it's cemented in their characters. It's been that one constant throughout the years. For other characters, it's different. Look at Wonder Woman, who has multiple different origins (which they are trying to fix in Rebirth). Even The Flash has had two different origins. Also, personality defines the character. Even in Injustice Superman had a very similar personality to the main continuity but was a victim of circumstance and went down a path he couldn't escape from. Batman has been a lighter tone before but has always kept his personality.
    The very fact that that Superman is someone who became a psychotic dictator proves a different personality. Same with Batman. Who can have different variations on his personality over decades across many adaptions. Even if DD having the personality that Laurel didn't were true, which it's not, it's empty, meaningless and interchangeable. Like whether or not Batman is brooding, light or crazy. It doesn't matter. It's all in how that writer chooses to have the character act. Superman TAS Clark, SV Clark and MOS Clark are all very different in personality. That doesn't matter. The back story and mo are what makes these characters not pointless to even have the name. Like Dinah Drake is. WW is an amazonian warrior from the island of themysciria. Barry is still a forensic scientist whose struck by lightning. These are maintained.
    They took the concept of her New 52 backstory and altered it slightly. So instead of Covert Ops, she was an undercover cop. The show went with a more believable variant that made sense for the show.
    That doesn't matter. The 2 things are vastly different and not the same.
    Again, that is her real backstory in the main continuity. You can't say it's a false backstory when it actually happened. In case you didn't read Rebirth, DC Rebirth is still in the New 52 continuity. Years were stolen. Lost. 5 of those years are still missing and unknown. They still dealt the world around them and went through real things. You're argument with Flashpoint Batman is invalid. That timeline was created briefly as a plot device and changed. Thus no longer being existent. New 52 continuity is still going. It's staying until or if they decide to reboot again. The whole point of DC Rebirth is to keep the New 52 continuity while bringing back things from Pre New 52 that others loved. So that everyone is pleased. New 52 is a real continuity whether you like it or not. New 52 Superman died. Yet we have Pre New 52 Superman who has been in the New 52 Continuity since the beginning watching everything unfold in the background.

    So again, Black Canary's backstory in New 52 is real. It's a real reality where those things happened to her and it's still being applied and used. It doesn't just magically go away.
    It is false because it was forced to be that way. It didn't happen just because of a timeline alteration. Regardless, it still isn't Dinah Drake's back story, so it's moot. My Thomas Wayne Batman point is very apt in this case, because it's an incorrect back story for the character. Have a very great day!

    God bless you all!

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pulsayr View Post
    So he's one of those guys that doesn't listen to logic and fails to admit when he is wrong? Got it. I'm glad you enjoyed my post and got some information out of it. Glad to be useful. ^_^ If you're interested in DC comics I highly recommend a lot of the Rebirth stuff. It keeps in line with the New 52 continuity but a lot of the first issues give a nice recap of the character and what goes on so you're less confused. Also YouTube channels like ComicsExplained and Comicstorian are amazing at giving good insight
    Your welcome on the helpful info.

    I've heard of the Rebirth stuff and I have been keeping my eye on it. I'll keep those Youtube Channels in mind in case I need them.

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