View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Everything I wanted

    7 41.18%
  • 9

    4 23.53%
  • 8

    1 5.88%
  • 7

    0 0%
  • 6

    1 5.88%
  • 5

    2 11.76%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Failed this city

    2 11.76%
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  1. #46
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    If the new team is simply to show Oliver as leader, then the writers are failing at actually creating characters that are more than just cardboard cutouts. I wasn't impressed by the new team Arrow having not watched the rest of the season, but hopefully their character arcs are more fully fleshed out. Nothing wrong with them suporting Oliver's story/journey, but a good writing team would still make them 3 dimensional characters with story arcs and such.

    That said, I really did enjoy this episode, though I'm a little surprised that Laurel was so central to the hallucination AU and that it seemed to show that Oliver still cared for her, since most of season 3 and season 4 tried to retcon out any connection they had. But this felt like a nice nod to season one, while also giving Oliver some nice character driven moments where he realized that fighting the good fight wasn't about getting a reward, but was a purpose worth striving for.
    While in general I've had concerns about the 'too many masks' issue and propping up new team members at the expense of Oliver's character, the 100 ep. was not going to be the best ep for showcasing Team Arrow 2.0 (especially if this was the first time viewers of other shows would meet them). Their mini-adventure was always going to be a minor subplot in this one. A 'C' plot, if the crossover was by default the 'B' plot. And I would say Wild Dog and Ragman are, if not fully three-dimensional yet, have the potential to get there - assuming they don't die, get burned out, go off to exile, join another show etc. by season's end. My view is that Team Arrow is going to lose one or two of their newbies due to any of these causes by end of S5. Unlike Barry or the LoT crew, Oliver won't have the power on his own to reset or rewrite their fates on a whim. I hadn't been a big fan of Evelyn/Artemis -- who wasn't in this one -- but it turned out the reason for her minimal presence is they've had plans for her (heel turn!), which would explain why she was given so little profile previously.

    I would say this need to force a team dynamic in the DC Berlantiverse works better on some shows than others. No one is an island, but on Arrow the whole 'Go team!' idea has often been the most jarring simply because Ollie has been a lone wolf for much of his training period and S1. If he had a 'team', partners or associates during this period, it was more out of necessity or opportunity. We could even say Ollie was pushing back at the notion of a team even into early S2.

    I think they handled Laurel well in 100. The wedding scenario may have been predictable but in the context of ep. 100, it worked very well not only in paying homage to Oliver's origins and journey but what Laurel meant to all of them ... even as closure if we never see E-1 Laurel again. (Even if she was an AI construct in the dream, it was based on the impressions of all the people they had abducted. It was how they remembered her, the very best of her. In the dream, none of them were their actual selves until they snapped out of it.) If they did lionize Laurel in 100, I am more than fine with it here ... considering the show's treatment of her S3-4 aka marginalizing her while they boosted all things Olicity.

    Maybe it's the series way to partly make amends for that and actually honour and show some long overdue respect to the character and legacy of Laurel to the show. As an Arrow fan, I don't feel all that bad that the crossover was only the B plot. I expected this. It was the 100th ep. and the show wisely opted to keep much of the spotlight on Arrow itself ... and we had still had Oliver battling aliens in space. In space! There was something for everyone in 100.

  2. #47
    Nate nate-dog1701d's Avatar
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    I understand the desire to service the 100th episode, but I wish it didn't have to fall in the middle of the crossover. I fall in the letdown camp. What's worse is that this episode didn't seem to inform much of anything else about the crossover other than translating the word "weapon." Why did the Dominators capture the regular humans, and what did they learn from them through the Dominatrix (Dominator + matrix)? What did this episode tell us about the characters that we didn't already know? Is Oliver supposed to have some kind of renewed resolve now? Does Diggle secretly wish he was The Hood? In all fairness, maybe there will be some related development on the next episode of Arrow, but the entire purpose of this episode felt contrived.

    Thea not wanting to leave was interesting until she changed her mind off-screen. Come on.

    The parts with Flash and Supergirl didn't work. They were an awkward and distracting addition to this episode, and Rene's 180 on metas was stupid. The bumbling and babbling over hacking into the alien tech didn't interest me. It felt like they expected the alien tech to have a USB drive that they could easily download from.

    They tried to strike a balance with this episode between crossover and 100th episode, and I don't think it worked. I wish this episode were either more about superhero shenanigans or entirely about the Arrow crew. More specifically, I didn't like cutting back and forth between the dream and reality, but I guess the lack of flashbacks meant they had to have their awkward transitions somewhere.

    I do miss Moira, and it was generally pleasant seeing certain characters interact who can't or don't anymore.

  3. #48
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    If it were any other Arrow ep. not numbered 100, I might have expected Arrow to, if not bear more of the crossover weight story-wise, then at least do as much as Flash or LoT. If it weren't 100, I'm sure they could have spread out some crossover content from Flash and LoT into Arrow ... and Supergirl too.

    Since it was 100, it makes sense that Flash and LoT bore more of the weight of the crossover (not unlike what Arrow itself has done over the years, without complaint, to launch new characters and series). The crossover may have been more seamless had Arrow (and Supergirl, let's not forget) did more work story-wise compared to Flash and LoT, but it was a case where timing and the undeniable need to do something meaningful for Arrow's 100th episode meant that they had to compromise - one that I largely agree with. They opted to not mess up Arrow 100 for the sake of the crossover, while still giving due importance to the ep.'s crossover moment.

    Having SG and Flash interact with Team Arrow 2.0 on that side adventure was fun in the easter egg shout-out sense, but it was also the weaker subplot in this episode -- and it was crossover-related. It was clearly the C plot in this episode and it showed. I agree that Wild Dog's quick turnaround from meta basher to meta fan made little sense other than drama for the sake of drama. (We also see this in LoT with Oliver's quick turnaround from Kara skeptic to Kara fan. Pointless angst.) These I blame on the network's love of melodrama, because neither of those subplots did much beyond generating unnecessary tension in the team.

    Some of these crossover questions may be answered on Arrow or even on the other shows down the line. I think a lot of Arrow fans would argue that Oliver's dream experience did give him a renewed sense of purpose and resolve going forward. Maybe 'dreamverse' Diggle was harbouring some latent need to be more of a lead hero than just one of the team, but it's no real indication what 'real' Diggle actually feels about it. If anything, it may mean he still feels guilt about Andy and (my speculation) being the Hood was how the alien's construct interpreted his need to do penance.

    Thea's plea to remain in the dreamverse was one of the highlights of 100. Her quick turnaround to join Ollie anyway in the final battle kind of just happened with little explanation, no doubt -- but I think Arrow fans would shrug off that snap judgment call .... since it meant a showdown with Malcolm in that epic fight scene.

    Some Arrow fans may even detest that 100 had to happen during the crossover and maybe wanted 100% of the ep dedicated to a homage to the series with zero Invasion content. To me it seemed more like 75%-80% Arrow tribute and 20-25% Invasion crossover. I think they tried to make as fair a balance as they could with an ep that, during any non-crossover week, would be completely dedicated to an Arrow homage.

    My view is that, even with it being ep 100, Arrow did accommodate Invasion into it. Maybe it could have been more, maybe it should have been less. There will be no real consensus. I think they did as good a job as they could and wisely opted to do justice to Arrow 100 than gut it of meaningful content just so the crossover can be railroaded through it. Episode 100 was an event that had to be given its due. As part of the Invasion crossover, this had to be given its space too ... and with Oliver Queen blasting aliens in space (something no one would expect to see on Arrow!), I think Arrow did its crossover duties just fine ... while rightly and deservedly celebrating a landmark moment of its own.

  4. #49
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    The plus for next year's crossover event is there will be no milestone episode to celebrate, so that alone should make the crossover fill more like a crossover, if that makes any sense.

  5. #50
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    While in general I've had concerns about the 'too many masks' issue and propping up new team members at the expense of Oliver's character, the 100 ep. was not going to be the best ep for showcasing Team Arrow 2.0 (especially if this was the first time viewers of other shows would meet them). Their mini-adventure was always going to be a minor subplot in this one. A 'C' plot, if the crossover was by default the 'B' plot. And I would say Wild Dog and Ragman are, if not fully three-dimensional yet, have the potential to get there - assuming they don't die, get burned out, go off to exile, join another show etc. by season's end. My view is that Team Arrow is going to lose one or two of their newbies due to any of these causes by end of S5. Unlike Barry or the LoT crew, Oliver won't have the power on his own to reset or rewrite their fates on a whim. I hadn't been a big fan of Evelyn/Artemis -- who wasn't in this one -- but it turned out the reason for her minimal presence is they've had plans for her (heel turn!), which would explain why she was given so little profile previously.

    I would say this need to force a team dynamic in the DC Berlantiverse works better on some shows than others. No one is an island, but on Arrow the whole 'Go team!' idea has often been the most jarring simply because Ollie has been a lone wolf for much of his training period and S1. If he had a 'team', partners or associates during this period, it was more out of necessity or opportunity. We could even say Ollie was pushing back at the notion of a team even into early S2.

    I think they handled Laurel well in 100. The wedding scenario may have been predictable but in the context of ep. 100, it worked very well not only in paying homage to Oliver's origins and journey but what Laurel meant to all of them ... even as closure if we never see E-1 Laurel again. (Even if she was an AI construct in the dream, it was based on the impressions of all the people they had abducted. It was how they remembered her, the very best of her. In the dream, none of them were their actual selves until they snapped out of it.) If they did lionize Laurel in 100, I am more than fine with it here ... considering the show's treatment of her S3-4 aka marginalizing her while they boosted all things Olicity.

    Maybe it's the series way to partly make amends for that and actually honour and show some long overdue respect to the character and legacy of Laurel to the show. As an Arrow fan, I don't feel all that bad that the crossover was only the B plot. I expected this. It was the 100th ep. and the show wisely opted to keep much of the spotlight on Arrow itself ... and we had still had Oliver battling aliens in space. In space! There was something for everyone in 100.
    Oh, I was responding to an earlier comment in this thread about how the new team Arrow's sole purpose was to serve Oliver's story. I'm glad that they're fleshed out and I wasn't actually judging them too much based on this episode. Just that these aren't characters I was ever interested in seeing, hence why I haven't bothered with this season. Because I think that one thing that the writers have done is forgotten that supporting characters need to do more than just support the main character's journey. That's why many of the female love interests were reduced to less interesting storylines while serving as Oliver's love interest, and why Laurel was killed off last season even though it made very little sense to her character arc imho. But hopefully they've learned from this and the supporting characters are given more well rounded stories in this season. Glad that some people on the board seem to be enjoying this season too But I definitely see what you're saying about Oliver having a team feeling awkwardly forced. It's a shame, because the Arrowfam in the comics was really great and that's what I wanted to see eventually from the show, but they've written off or OC-ed every Arrowfam member from the comics and the personality of this Oliver makes it harder to explain him working with a team. But I digress.

    And while I do get some of the criticism about Laurel being 'just a bride' in this episode, this wasn't the real Laurel. This was the idealized hallucination version of Laurel designed to trap Oliver, Thea, and Sara in the Dominator's matrix and keep them distracted. They looked into their heads and plucked out what they wanted most and came up with Laurel who was happily in love with Oliver, thus marrying into being Thea's sister in law and having a close relationship with her sister that didn't have the awkward and painful history where Oliver was involved. I think that with the story they told in the episode, they served Laurel well enough by showing that her character had these emotional ties to those three characters and that she was loved by all three in some way. I went into the episode with very few expectations as a Laurel fan, and I was happy with how they handled it.

    I also agree that they did a pretty good job of celebrating the 100th episode milestone while also tying into the crossover. Though I do agree that the milestone ep falling in the middle of the crossover was unfortunate timing and planning, but they did the best they could with it and honestly, I'm glad that Kreisberg and Berlanti seem to have had some say in what happened in the 100th, or else it might have become more of an OTA/Olicity-fest and spit on Thea and Laurel (assuming Katie was even invited back, which I doubt she would have been if the decision was solely in Mericle and Guggenheim's hands)
    Last edited by dreamsofnever; 12-06-2016 at 10:13 PM.

  6. #51
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    This was actually a very enjoyable ep. It made me want to watch Arrow again, but then I realized that this ep was mostly paying homage to early characters and the early seasons. And that the later seasons wouldn't probably be as good as this ep was, for me. Oh well.

    I also don't mind the fact that Supergirl and the flash didn't show up much. I think they're finally getting the way the crossovers should work... If it's on Supergirl's show then the focus should be on Supergirl. If it's on the Flash's show, then it should be focused on The flash with the others as an guest star. You get the picture. But this is just my personal feelings on how Crossovers should work.

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