View Poll Results: What did you think?

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Great

    1 14.29%
  • 9

    3 42.86%
  • 8

    1 14.29%
  • 7

    1 14.29%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    1 14.29%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Bad

    0 0%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 18
  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Burbank, CA by way of Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,890

    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "So It Begins?"

    What did you think, everybody?

  2. #2
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 08
    Posts
    76,262
    Not really in the mood for an extensive (by my standards) rant over this episode and why it failed more than it should have. Random thoughts:

    - The cliffhanger was a bit shocking (I had forgotten a clip that showed Quentin holding the star in one of the season 5 promos). However, just like when Roy thought he killed Sara at the end of 3.05, I think they are misleading us here. But, if Felicity's leads are right, I'm starting to think Billy is the main Prometheus suspect. He forgave and endorsed Felicity about working with the Green Arrow a bit too easily and suspiciously, imo. And once he realized that Felicity and the GA were onto Prometheus through the ninja star, he decided to frame Quentin.

    - I liked the fact that they focused more on Oliver's psyche this week, but the constant "am I killer?" dilemma has to stop. It's gotten old and it changes every week just to suit the occasional episode's narrative. Besides, I don't remember Oliver actually killing many people from the list (he certainly didn't kill Hunt). He was intimidating most of them.

    - By struggling against a 17 year old vigilante in training, Prometheus lost some of his luster this week.

    - There must have been 4-6 times in this episode where Felicity or Curtis made a lame joke which was followed by awkward silence. What purpose does that serve? The show itself is acknowledging that these characters aren't actually funny. Cut it out then.

    - The recruits were incredibly annoying this week. Which has been part of the norm for most of them (minus Rory probably) since the start of the season. They should be trying to adapt to Team Arrow (since they wanted to join) and its way of doing things, not the other way around.

    - Diggle asking Felicity to steal evidence from her boyfriend was ridiculous and unfair on her. Oliver could easily have sneaked into the SCPD and stolen the star himself.

    - Don't care about Susan Williams a great deal, but Felicity and Thea constantly calling her "your girlfriend" to Oliver was odd and childish. The guy hasn't even went out on a date with her.

    - Willa Holland, again, was great in every scene she was in. I wish they gave her more to do.

    - Dolph Lundgren! This Rocky 4 fan was grinning from ear to ear when he showed up.

    4/10
    Last edited by costas22; 11-10-2016 at 12:58 AM.

  3. #3
    Let's Write!
    Join Date
    Jan 16
    Posts
    96
    The one main thing I didn't like was Digg's pushing to keep the newbies out of the loop. Team vet or not, that was more Oliver's call then his.

  4. #4
    Forum Whiz
    Join Date
    Jan 13
    Posts
    748
    So it looks like Prometheus could be a police officer and knows about The List. I like it when I'm right .

    Decent episode.

    Unless Prometheus has some master plan, seems like he doesn't feel like he is ready to take on the Green Arrow.

    Willa Holland and Paul Blackthorne were great this week.

    The fact that the Russian government now know that Oliver Queen is alive and aren't doing anything about is is shocking.

    Can't say I care about Oliver and this reporter woman.

    The new team irritate me.

    Is Diggle ever going to be allowed to leave the Arrowcave?

  5. #5
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 04
    Posts
    3,028
    This one was alright.

    As much as I still think the new team doesn't quite measure up to Team Arrow standards, Oliver keeping them out of the loop was starting to wear on me. If he's not already in Secrets 'N Lies territory, he's pushed that door open and could very easily slip down that slope. Not saying Ollie didn't have good concerns -- but he either wants a team or doesn't. And with trust being a continuing theme this season, I'm actually not surprised they would feel shocked that he did have a 'hit list' four years ago. In one sense, he doesn't owe them every minute detail of his previous four years (never mind his exile time). We know the context of his sometimes uneven journey from Hood to GA -- these new guys don't unfortunately. Sure they need to get with the program, sooner rather than later.

    But in this instance I can't fault them so much for having reservations again. He either wants them on-board or not. If he does, then he's going to have to divulge some information and accept the risk that sharing it may or may not result in teammates getting hurt or even killed.

    I actually felt their team mission in helping civilians out of the line of fire in that ridiculous 'joe average' wild shooting incident should have been a more appropriate first mission for them. They'd get their feet wet while not being necessarily in the front lines. Of course, some of them couldn't wait to get out in the field in previous eps. so some of the blame for not being ready is on them.

    It was actually long overdue that we got to see the new team thrash out their concerns on their own, as rookies. They actually should all be wondering 'what the heck did I sign up for here', etc. I do feel at some point, both they and Oliver have to move past their differences and agree to go forward. On the flip side, they either want to be on the team or not.

    Evelyn was one of the characters that sorely needed more development and they took a small step in giving her that. Her ditching her comms and facing off against Prometheus solo was not a good move though, it was stupid and I can't swallow that she could go toe-to-toe with him that long. It only made Prometheus look less formidable (unless we actually believe the ending that on-and-off-wagon Quentin actually was Prometheus and he doesn't even know it.. Yeah, right, only on an alternate earth where he, not Sara, was trained by the LOA. He may as well wear a bright red t-shirt saying 'Red Herring'.)

    Ollie's kill/no kill dilemma has been done to death, but in the context of the list it was an issue that could not be side-stepped. Now that they addressed it, along with Diggle's pep talk that he's not the Hood any more and Ollie's fear about slipping back into that mode showed that he's not that guy, let's hope this is the last time we have Ollie address this issue at length. If he has any future doubts, he can just replay the security cameras and rewatch his chit chat with Diggle.

    Felicity finally came clean with Billy on working with GA -- you know, after she stole evidence. Billy was okay with it, and I agree he seemed too okay with it, not even a little angry. He was actually a bit of a GA fanboy about it, if we believe he is a straight shooter. If he is destined for a massive heel turn, then he is totally playing Felicity with all this. Odds are good he is still destined for a broken heart, broken body, and so on.

    And -of course- Dolph Lundgren brought it big time in the Bratva flashbacks. He owned that scene. Yes, Flashback Ollie, I completely understand if you lose all bladder control -- you should be afraid. The dude killed Apollo Creed and nearly finished off Rocky himself. If given the chance, he will break you.

  6. #6
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,876


    Now, more than likely its a fakeout, that ending, and I fully expect to find out that Prometheus drugged poor Quentin. The Prometheus we've seen so far would not only have been able to evade Evelyn's sword (and, hey, have they stopped checking DNA on their weapons!?) but would also have killed her and the train driver long before Oliver showed up.

    But still, my jaw dropped and I was all like, "WHAT!? WHAT!?" for a few minutes.

    I gave it a 10 because of the absolute mind-effing.

  7. #7
    Forum Whiz shadow4486's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 06
    Location
    St. Louis
    Posts
    710
    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Not really in the mood for an extensive (by my standards) rant over this episode and why it failed more than it should have. Random thoughts:

    - The cliffhanger was a bit shocking (I had forgotten a clip that showed Quentin holding the star in one of the season 5 promos). However, just like when Roy thought he killed Sara at the end of 3.05, I think they are misleading us here. But, if Felicity's leads are right, I'm starting to think Billy is the main Prometheus suspect. He forgave and endorsed Felicity about working with the Green Arrow a bit too easily and suspiciously, imo. And once he realized that Felicity and the GA were onto Prometheus through the ninja star, he decided to frame Quentin.

    Oh no...I had forgotten about the "new guy with a bunch of lines is probably the villiain" issue I had with The Flash could possibly transfer over to Arrow.

    (smacking hand into forehead)

    If your suspicion is right about Billy, then it will be very disheartening. But it makes sense to get you emotionally invested in the character (because he's in a romantic relationship with a series regular), have him frame another series regular and actually be the bad guy all the time (hiding in plain sight). Only this time, I wasn't looking for it.

  8. #8
    Let's Write!
    Join Date
    Jan 16
    Posts
    96
    He's (Billy) Is probably gonna turn out to be that Vigilante guy who shows up next week.

  9. #9
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 14
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    827
    Decent episode, enoyable to watch. Ditched one point for the exploding train because seriously, it was very convenient that nobody except the driver, Artermis and Ollie were on board. ;p (but the parachute arrow again - lol! Also very convenient that they were already out of this tunnel).

    But the rest more or less worked (even when it was predictable at parts - for example Artemis's problem with Ollie being wrapped up on the span of one episode). Since I like stories focused on Ollie's psyche I obviously can't complain about that one. Absoultely loved scene with Ollie shooting the bow to take his mind off the problems. Now for someone who doesn't shoot a bow it might not hold any meaning but what I experienced myself as an amateur archer - archery really helps to relax.

    "Team B's" doubts about being kept out of the loop are very valid ones. Before season 5 I would never say that I will ever enjoy seeing those four randoms but surprise, suprise - I really liked seeing them together and them talking about Oliver and the List. This season is really full of surprises (I only wonder how long those're going to be positive surprises - yes, I'm cynical here and I sensing a bait). Liked Felicity saying that there is one team (no OTA nonsense), not two teams. And it was really a long while since Ollie and Dig had that Honest Talk. I also like all the connections between season 5 and 1 and how they sucessfully manage to ignore that season 4 nonsense existed except for parts like Ollie killing DD or Dig's issues. Btw. I need to watch 4x19 finally, although it's difficult to force myself to do to, because of Laurel's funeral.

    Quentin? WTF?! Red-herring most likely, but that it was shocking cliff-hanger. (He is too tall to be Prometheus, also not that... agile - sorry, Quentin). An idea that Prometheus would be some former cop/person connected to SCPD is a good one. Obviously I wouldn't want Malone to be that person, because it would be the most awful trope used. He was really quick to forgive Felicity lying to him (I've half expected him to ask for GA's autograph next ).

    Turnip? Seriously? Were they reading Julian Tuwim's poetry? Tuwim was Polish writer, who wrote a story about family trying to pull a huge turnip out of the ground. I've just checked that Tuwim was inspired by Russia fairytale. Omg, did they actually made a reseach on Russian folklore? o_O Research? In "Arrow"?

    I've crossed some more points of my must-see in "Arrow" scenes. Tell whatever you want, but seeing GA just walking into crime scene to talk with DA was cool.

    Yes, I'm easy to buy apparently - just show me some Tropes & motives I like. There were some issus with logic >>> Prometheus was waiting in the vincinity for a week to set fire to that beautiful "So it begins?" in the accurate moment?; vigilantes would probably end up dead if they would appear in the middle of panicked crowd, because people most likely would start to shoot to guys wearing the masks; the team's doubts wrapped up in one episode; Prometheus apparently teleports from place to place; Curtis's jokes are not that funny in most cases - yes, I can see all of that. But I base my marks on one single criterium - enjoyment from viewing. And so far season 5 holds up surprisingly well. 9/10.

    >>> Wild Dog/Thea? Rene, don't try anything with Ollie's sister. I didn't ended up well for Roy.

    >>> It's annoying as hell when they call that journalist Oliver's girlfriend.

    >>> I'm really worried for Quentin. )):

  10. #10
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 14
    Location
    Poland
    Posts
    827
    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Not saying Ollie didn't have good concerns -- but he either wants a team or doesn't. And with trust being a continuing theme this season,
    Either by accident or design it's a baggage his PTSD leaves. Trying to open up to people and pushing them away the very next moment. So I had no problems with that.

    Agree that it was high time to give Evelyn some development because seriosly, for most time she was in the background, saying no more than two sentences in an episode.

  11. #11
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 11
    Posts
    605
    With [SPOILER]Talia[/SPOILER] coming after the mid-season, she might turn out to be the ultimate villain for this season. Even though Prometheus has killed several people so far, he's no match for Oliver, based off their first encounter. And I imagined that would be the case coming into this season, considering Oliver has tackled and defeated more skilled villains than that with the likes of Merlyn, Deathstroke, Ra's and Damien Darhk in previous seasons. And considering that first encounter, there isn't enough of Prometheus to last the final 16 episodes......so I'm guessing either a twist is coming with Prometheus that it's someone Oliver knows from his past and he can't kill for those reasons (say if it's Tommy) or it turns out Prometheus is indeed working for [SPOILER] Talia[/SPOILER] which I think would work better and make this storyline more accessible to stretch the rest of the way, than say if it's just Prometheus working alone.

  12. #12
    Settling In
    Join Date
    Oct 16
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    he will break you.
    Olie is no ordinary man he's like a piece of iron

  13. #13
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 04
    Posts
    3,028
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Decent episode, enoyable to watch. Ditched one point for the exploding train because seriously, it was very convenient that nobody except the driver, Artermis and Ollie were on board. ;p (but the parachute arrow again - lol! Also very convenient that they were already out of this tunnel).
    Yeah I would also dock a point for the conveniently empty train. Would have added to the tension if we had seen at least a couple of terrified commuters on board. But I would add a point for seeing the parachute arrow again. Love it.

    "Team B's" doubts about being kept out of the loop are very valid ones. Before season 5 I would never say that I will ever enjoy seeing those four randoms but surprise, suprise - I really liked seeing them together and them talking about Oliver and the List. This season is really full of surprises (I only wonder how long those're going to be positive surprises - yes, I'm cynical here and I sensing a bait). Liked Felicity saying that there is one team (no OTA nonsense), not two teams. And it was really a long while since Ollie and Dig had that Honest Talk. I also like all the connections between season 5 and 1 and how they sucessfully manage to ignore that season 4 nonsense existed except for parts like Ollie killing DD or Dig's issues.
    It was good to hear it from Felicity's mouth that there is only one team, not this OTA nonsense. I also liked Ollie and Diggle's chat, they could have had it in a previous episode but I'm glad they did have it now. The return of the List was handled nicely in this ep., it was practically forgotten in previous seasons. It was a needed reminder that, yes, Oliver as the Hood was practically a criminal. They finally had the new team discuss their concerns among themselves, which was welcome.

    It was great seeing GA just stroll into crime scene, the CSI's are cool with it and the DA expects it. Very 'Batman' of him.

    If Billy is lucky, he'll just be doomed to die by Prometheus' hand. Or if he becomes a villain, die by Team Arrow's hands. If he's really unlucky, he's just a Mr. Nice Guy whose heart will be broken first, followed by his body, without even a small chance to reap some glory as a bad guy.

    Turnip? Seriously? Were they reading Julian Tuwim's poetry? Tuwim was Polish writer, who wrote a story about family trying to pull a huge turnip out of the ground. I've just checked that Tuwim was inspired by Russia fairytale. Omg, did they actually made a reseach on Russian folklore? o_O Research? In "Arrow"?
    I am really liking the Bratva scenes. They might be too grim for some fans out there who like the glass half-full, "sunnier" outlook in the Flash/SG vein, but it's exactly what I was looking for in the S5 flashbacks. It sounds like TPTB did do some homework -- and it must be said: Kovar was formidable. (Of course, any fan of Rocky IV knows that was a given.)

  14. #14
    Forum Regular Aquahyde's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 11
    Location
    Bayside
    Posts
    306
    Billy is not Prometheus, do we really want the show to reduce Prometheus & GA's season feud to be about Felicity......

    - The recruits were incredibly annoying this week. Which has been part of the norm for most of them (minus Rory probably) since the start of the season. They should be trying to adapt to Team Arrow (since they wanted to join) and its way of doing things, not the other way around.
    They didnt want to join, Oliver and his IT girl are the ones to seek the newbies and begged them to join. Then they should have the decency to act like teammates, they cant expect the recruits to only do the heavy-lifting of team building. Diggle was a terrible influence to Oliver in this episode, actually he has been lots of times. Felicity was the only one of the old team who didnt act like an elitist, untrusting jerk (shocking).
    Last edited by Aquahyde; 11-10-2016 at 11:18 PM.

  15. #15
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 08
    Posts
    76,262
    Quote Originally Posted by Aquahyde View Post

    They didnt want to join, Oliver and his IT girl are the ones to seek the newbies and begged them to join. Then they should have the decency to act like teammates, they cant expect the recruits to only do the heavy-lifting of team building. Diggle was a terrible influence to Oliver in this episode, actually he has been lots of times. Felicity was the only one of the old team who didnt act like an elitist, untrusting jerk (shocking).
    They didn't beg anyone. In Wild Dog's case, Oliver was fed up with him clumsily interfering in his business, so he made him an offer to teach him how it's done. And Wild Dog agreed because he "wanted to work with the guy who killed Darhk" (his words). Evelyn's recruitment was kept off screen so we don't know how that went down. Curtis himself asked to join the team, Oliver and Felicity didn't ask him. Ragman was the one who Oliver recruited personally. At first. Then he quit the team, only to rejoin it on his own volition.

    The fact of the matter is that they are called "recruits" for a reason. They don't have the experience that Oliver, Felicity and Diggle have in this (just look at how many times Wild Dog has messed up) and of course they shouldn't always be looped in immediately when it comes to strategic operations. A soldier doesn't become a Lieutenant from day one. The recruits should only be looked at as teammates after they gain more experience and they stop whining all time and acting entitled.

    And even from a clear ranking standpoint, Oliver is the leader, isn't he? Then either respect the way he does things or get out. That goes for Felicity as well. I'm getting sick and tired of every episode revolving around how Oliver is a lousy leader and how he has to adjust his methods to the others' wishes.
    Last edited by costas22; 11-11-2016 at 12:27 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •