Sigh....I'm still here guys but this is rough(Mary leaving and S12 storyline)

[waynedeath1047]

Let me start this by saying I LOVE THIS SHOW. This show is making me become a writer. I have gotten my Creative Writing degree to work in Hollywood because of it and even have gotten into my first writer's room because of it. This show literally means my world to me.

So I have been hanging in here over the summer and what not. I have been wanting to sit down and write an opinion piece for the board over what I thought of the S11 Finale and where we were going but I just felt and now still fell exhausted by this show and tonight's episode and it's stupid predictability in it's total down right Henry Allening us by making Mary feel like she doesn't belong and making her leave is just stupid. STUPID. Just like the whole first season was about getting his Dad out of jail this entire season was supposed to be the rehunterizing (new word, sue me) of Mary Winchester. But no...instead we are back to status quo. BORING. There is no amount of words or logic someone could write to me on this saying that this is a good idea. Why the hell did they even bring her back if she is just going to go AWOL? It screams of a changing of the guard in writing teams in one doing one thing and the other not liking what they did.

They should have made her the new Bobby. Instead of making her this sniveling lost soul who is a fish out of water and misses her boys and husband she should have her eyes on the prize and the family business and showing these boys a thing or two about hunting that they never thought of. The whole Men Of Letters storyline is interesting but I too like the British agents too wonder why Sam isn't basically Jedi Mind Tricking monsters at this point given he is the bookworm of the two. He should be even better than the guy who was holding onto the First Blade at this point.

Once again we are sitting here with opportunities flushed down the toilet and writers doing moronic things because they are too afraid they can't stretch the taffy far enough when it comes to 23 episodes. I loved the last season for the most part despite the missed opportunities, inconsistencies, and the corner they wrote themselves into.

I really hope something awesome comes out of the Lucifer storyline because that's really all that's keeping me around anymore.

[TyrantLord]

Let me start this by saying I LOVE THIS SHOW. This show is making me become a writer. I have gotten my Creative Writing degree to work in Hollywood because of it and even have gotten into my first writer's room because of it. This show literally means my world to me.

So I have been hanging in here over the summer and what not. I have been wanting to sit down and write an opinion piece for the board over what I thought of the S11 Finale and where we were going but I just felt and now still fell exhausted by this show and tonight's episode and it's stupid predictability in it's total down right Henry Allening us by making Mary feel like she doesn't belong and making her leave is just stupid. STUPID. Just like the whole first season was about getting his Dad out of jail this entire season was supposed to be the rehunterizing (new word, sue me) of Mary Winchester. But no...instead we are back to status quo. BORING. There is no amount of words or logic someone could write to me on this saying that this is a good idea. Why the hell did they even bring her back if she is just going to go AWOL? It screams of a changing of the guard in writing teams in one doing one thing and the other not liking what they did.

They should have made her the new Bobby. Instead of making her this sniveling lost soul who is a fish out of water and misses her boys and husband she should have her eyes on the prize and the family business and showing these boys a thing or two about hunting that they never thought of. The whole Men Of Letters storyline is interesting but I too like the British agents too wonder why Sam isn't basically Jedi Mind Tricking monsters at this point given he is the bookworm of the two. He should be even better than the guy who was holding onto the First Blade at this point.

Once again we are sitting here with opportunities flushed down the toilet and writers doing moronic things because they are too afraid they can't stretch the taffy far enough when it comes to 23 episodes. I loved the last season for the most part despite the missed opportunities, inconsistencies, and the corner they wrote themselves into.

I really hope something awesome comes out of the Lucifer storyline because that's really all that's keeping me around anymore.

I'm not really investing myself into Ma Mary too much. God knows the way these writers treat characters not named Sam, Dean, Cass, or Crowly. She'll probably end up dead again at seasons mid season finisher or end season finisher anyways.

But as to your point yes, she should've been named and placed into the position of New Bobby. then if nothing else these Brit Men of Letters could be shown that hunters in America CAN be somewhat organized, albeit in a more, ahem, chaotic manner. I don't know if hunters in general actually already have a new Bobby or not because the story became focused on the Winchesters so much that it lost any kind of draw to other existing hunters. Garth became a werewolf so his days as Bobby are long gone. IS anyone organizing hunters again in any fashion?

That IS in fact a question that the writers will have to answer eventually if they want to keep the hunting aspects of the show alive. Now that the chaos of God and his Sister are settled hopefully the wind isn't drained from the show and the stories can be grounded back to the Winchesters hunting and saving people again and working with the other odd hunters again. The only other hunters we saw last season were those two gay men who hunted those weird bug spirit things. I like it when the show fleshes out other hunters personally as it adds more to the Supernatural world.

[ZeoVGM]

Sorry, I don't agree. This season is great so far. But first let me comment on what you said specifically.

season was supposed to be the rehunterizing (new word, sue me) of Mary Winchester. But no...instead we are back to status quo. BORING. There is no amount of words or logic someone could write to me on this saying that this is a good idea. Why the hell did they even bring her back if she is just going to go AWOL? It screams of a changing of the guard in writing teams in one doing one thing and the other not liking what they did.

First, it was never "supposed" to be that. That's simply what you wanted. And truthfully, that's likely part of the plan.

Instead of making her this sniveling lost soul who is a fish out of water and misses her boys and husband she should have her eyes on the prize and the family business and showing these boys a thing or two about hunting that they never thought of.

She came back from the dead after being murdered by a demon. And you need to remember that Mary was out. When she was last alive, she was no longer hunting. She had been done for a long time. If Mary wasn't a fish out of water and missing her husband -- who to her, was alive only yesterday -- THAT would be bad writing. It makes complete sense for her to be the way she is.

Don't get me wrong, Supernatural had a string of seasons that seemed built around missed opportunities (Leviathans, human Cas, Demon Dean) but there's nothing to suggest that yet this season. Samantha Smith isn't main cast -- not even in the half-season way that Misha and Mark are -- she's a guest star. She'll show up again, multiple times throughout the season, but she's not main cast and they needed to explain her not being there somehow.

She's already back in episode 6, so relax. Haha.

I wouldn't doubt that by the time she comes back, she's more solid on the hunting stuff.

Also, I've gotten this great feeling from the first three episodes in a way that I've wanted for a while. One of my most wanted aspects of the show the past few years was to focus more on a larger cast. Yes, the show is about Sam and Dean but Cas (and now Crowley), I feel, are just as important. Giving the show more of a Buffy/Angel-esque "Scooby Gang" feel. That, with going a bit back to basics, is the best way to give the show continued life.

[TyrantLord]

I think a lot of current problems lie in them blowing the whole "God Story" so soon. Really, if last season was not planned to be the last, then they should've saved God Vs. The Darkness for the series finale. Because now everything else Sam and Dean face after words seems lack luster and I find myself feeling "Why haven't they wrapped this case up in ten minutes after going up against THE two top primordial forces of the universe?".

at least with DBZ and it's other incarnations they kept upping Goku's power level AND the villain's power levels with each saga, and with evil Men of Letters it feels like a downgrade in villains for Sam and Dean as far as I'm concerned. Like seriously, God and Amara BOTH owe the Winchesters big time. Amara already repaid Dean with his mom. Therefore shouldn't God still owe them a favor? Sigh. So many plot holes so little time and so many opportunities to end the show with dignity wasted.

[SuperSheltie]

Dean has always said that "people" are far worse than monsters, so this could play in to the story line as it refers to the BMOL. I did get a chuckle (pun intended) when the mother asked them if they knew God. I think that God/Amara was the reset button on the entire series. While I'm sure we'll see one or both later in the series, I still am enjoying this season, although I'm anxious to get back to the Vincifer story. Springfield is awesome in this role.

One thing that this series has done again and again is the state that "what is dead should stay dead." Even if Amara is the one who did it, Mary is understandably "off" about being resurrected, but I'm wondering if this won't be revisited when Mary returns, that she's not 100% Mary. This would give Sam and Dean, particularly Dean, a whole bunch of emotional conflicts going forward.

[TyrantLord]

Dean has always said that "people" are far worse than monsters

He's not wrong. Monsters for the most part are the way they are because they are feral (no signs of intelligence and act on instinct (Ex: werewolves)) because they are born that way ( Ex: demons), or because of an uncontrollable lust (Ex: vamps/ghouls). What's human kind's excuse? We VERY much have the ability to control all of the urges listed above but for the most part our species doesn't. Supernatural Monsters are what they are by nature, human kind is what it is because of choice. Hence his opinion.

Dunno how you consider last season to be the reset (or as some would call it the soft reboot), but as far as I'm concerned its more rinse and repeat. Sam and Dean beat the threat of the year, Dean suffers an emotional trauma because of the aftermath (except this time his mother caused it instead of the usual Sam lying behind his back), and spends the remainder of the following season brooding about it while Sam attempts to snap him out of it. It's been pretty much that exact same pattern for ten plus years now.

Just once I'd like to have Supernatural NOT have Dean OR Sam for that matter brooding about the past but focusing more on their current threats, then maybe they'd screw up less and less non-Winchester/Crowly/Cass characters would die as a result.

[ZeoVGM]

I think a lot of current problems lie in them blowing the whole "God Story" so soon. Really, if last season was not planned to be the last, then they should've saved God Vs. The Darkness for the series finale. Because now everything else Sam and Dean face after words seems lack luster and I find myself feeling "Why haven't they wrapped this case up in ten minutes after going up against THE two top primordial forces of the universe?"

Because it's a TV show. :P

Some big bads are bigger and badder than others. There's nothing wrong with going back to a more simple season arc after fighting someone like The Darkness. They also shouldn't force themselves to wait until the final episode to do an epic story if they want. When the time comes, they will have plenty of things they can do.

You're reading into things too much. They spent a season with The Darkness. I'm not sure how that's related to investigating and solving a ghost case in 10 minutes.

[TyrantLord]

You're reading into things too much. They spent a season with The Darkness. I'm not sure how that's related to investigating and solving a ghost case in 10 minutes.

I'll put it in DBZ terms:

It's like you just saw Goku kill Majinn Buu with the most powerful spirit bomb in the universe in one episode but then they have him struggle against General Blue from his younger days in Dragonball the very next episode. It just wouldn't make sense.

Same thing here. Ghosts at this point should be easy pickings for the Winchesters, hell the writers have even weakened demons to the point of being a long running joke. They had to force feed a demon story this last episode and could only make it a threat by mixing in other hunters who were screwing the job up. Sam and Dean would've had it cleaned up in ten minutes without the screw-ups.