Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "A Matter of Trust?"

[134sc]

I really liked the episode. I like the new team and thier interactions with Oliver and Felicty. Its a good change of pace, because the old dynamic was really getting stale. I honestly dont understand what people want or expect out of the show. Oliver and Felicity have a much healthier relationship and as individual characters they are also much better. Thea actually has something to do and its quite enjoyable. Diggle even has a pretty interesting storyline, exploring the mental toll killing his brother has on him, when all hes wanted for years is to find Lawton and get revenge. In my opinion the show is back to first half of season 3 quality, which if everyone remembers, was actually pretty good as the show didnt fall off until after the mid season finale.

[JDBentz]

On the ratings: I can't believe I'm saying this, but we'll have to wait for the adjustment because last night's episode coincided with the final presidential debate in the U.S. and most people were watching that if they're over 18, though I'm still not clear if it would be for insight into the candidates or just the entertainment value... because those debates are kind of like a circus.

Having been on Twitter last night, I was one of the only people who Tweeted about Arrow until about 11 p.m. or later, my time (so about 1 a.m. on the East Coast and 10 p.m. on the West).

[Haggard01]

@JDBentz

Good video review. Oh don't worry about the Joker stuff, I'm going to include that in mine.

[President_Luthor]

I really liked the episode. I like the new team and thier interactions with Oliver and Felicty. Its a good change of pace, because the old dynamic was really getting stale. I honestly dont understand what people want or expect out of the show. Oliver and Felicity have a much healthier relationship and as individual characters they are also much better. Thea actually has something to do and its quite enjoyable. Diggle even has a pretty interesting storyline, exploring the mental toll killing his brother has on him, when all hes wanted for years is to find Lawton and get revenge.

Oliver's balancing of his day and night lives, plus Felicity trying to thrash out the weight of Havenrock on her conscience and Diggle's own post-fratricidal struggles are all plotlines that I am actually looking forward to. I would be disappointed if the show simply brushed off the obvious fallout on them. Ten thousand lives were lost as a result of Felicity's actions in a no-win scenario and Diggle killed his brother in cold blood, regardless of the extenuating circumstances. It would be ridiculous if viewers thought these events would have minimal impact on them.

On the flip side, I'm not interested in this being used to ramp up the volume of melodrama -- which is what I think some fans are reasonably afraid might happen. It should be noted: as of this ep it hasn't happened to such a degree. It remains to be seen if they will stay the course or default on more melodrama later.

Both Oliver and Thea became more politically astute after this ep. too -- a skill they will need if Ollie is going to be both mayor and GA. I've always wanted Quentin to have a purpose post-Schism to remain relevant and I still think Thea made a politically shrewd move in getting him on board because it will ultimately free up Ollie to step back from his civic duties when he has mission-related GA work.

In my opinion the show is back to first half of season 3 quality, which if everyone remembers, was actually pretty good as the show didnt fall off until after the mid season finale.

The lead-up to S3 midseason finale was entertaining and few fans would deny the reality that "The Climb" was probably one of Arrow's (heck, the entire Flarrowverse's) best episodes -- and one of Arrow's coolest cinematic moments.

I think in the fans' rush to paint S3-S4 with the 'Rise of Olicity' brush, they tend to forget that S3 had some good moments in the first half. (The second half -- not so much. Turning Ra's from the alpha super-villain he is into just another weakened petty warlord by S3's end was. not. cool. And S3 must own that shoddy second-half treatment of Ra's, in my books, never mind S3's role in doubling down on Olicity by season's end.)

I thought 5.03 was an alright episode. Maybe not spectacular, but it was okay -- as in the sort of routine GA vs. criminal/FOTW episode they'd usually have to churn out to pad their 23 eps. a season.

I realize lots of fans are expecting the other shoe to drop re: excess melodrama, Olicity turned up to deafening volumes, etc. or maybe even 'wanting' it to (either to prove pet theories/headcanons or simply out of some Reddit or Tumblresque schadenfreude in seeing Arrow falter).

The impression out there is that the shoe has already dropped, when it hasn't. Yet. At least from my perspective.

Not saying it will never drop, it's just that I'd have to see the shoe drop first, and probably a big pair of Size 22 Shaq-sized melodrama shoes, before I start opening up my crates of rotting tomatoes to hurl at the show.

If we use last season's 'baby mama drama/secret son shenanigans' as the litmus test for excess melodrama (Dare I count the Caitlin/Zoom nonsense on S2 Flash in the same class? I would. ), then what Felicity and Diggle are going through at present hardly constitutes this level or volume of melodrama. Not even close.

Sure there is always potential, we could say that about any time character A or B runs into a moment of angst, etc., but it would have to materialize on-screen before I'd be prepared to say 'Oh, here we go again, etc.'

As for ratings: I wouldn't put too much stock on low ratings for this particular episode having a lot to do with Arrow itself, considering it was US presidential debate night, with plenty of viewers treating it like it was the season finale of Survivor or Amazing Race. Donald and Hillary took a big chunk out of any show that was airing at the same time, and not only in the U.S.

We can't forget the Cubs - Dodgers NLCS game too. It was also a big hockey night on this side of the border, so the results were skewered by events outside of the show's control.

[costas22]

I was actually referring to the showrunners going back to Olicty in order to draw and crowd back in to get higher ratings. The last thing I want is more ratings.

I know. I just don't get why they would attribute the low ratings to the lack of Olicity when the trend started while the Olicity storyline was still going on.

I think in the fans' rush to paint S3-S4 with the 'Rise of Olicity' brush, they tend to forget that S3 had some good moments in the first half. (The second half -- not so much. Turning Ra's from the alpha super-villain he is into just another weakened petty warlord by S3's end was. not. cool. And S3 must own that shoddy second-half treatment of Ra's, in my books, never mind S3's role in doubling down on Olicity by season's end.)

Aside from The Magician, The Brave and The Bold and The Climb, I don't think the first half of season 3 was particularly good. The premiere was slow and awfully Olicity centered, Sara, Guilty and Corto Maltese were adequate at best and we got 2 stinkers: The Cupid and Donna episodes. IMO, Season 3's best spell was its middle part: Episodes 10-14.

Not sure how I would compare season 5 to season 3 yet.

[JDBentz]

costas: because the Olicity Twitterheads are claiming responsibility on Guggenheim's timeline, saying its because of their current decision to "celebrate a dead bird and disrespect Felicity", amongst other oh-so-interesting phrases.

[costas22]

costas: because the Olicity Twitterheads are claiming responsibility on Guggenheim's timeline, saying its because of their current decision to "celebrate a dead bird and disrespect Felicity", amongst other oh-so-interesting phrases.

Ah ok. No surprise that they would try to twist the ratings in that manner. I just want to believe that the showrunners have a clearer picture of what's going on. I mean, what's likelier? That long term viewers left because the show lost its way and ultimately killed off the second most important character in the Green Arrow mythos? Or that some shippers left because Olicity was temporarily halted?

Anyway, I think the show will ultimately go back to Olicity at some point, regardless of the ratings. That story isn't over.

[Amarice]

I think in the fans' rush to paint S3-S4 with the 'Rise of Olicity' brush, they tend to forget that S3 had some good moments in the first half. (The second half -- not so much. Turning Ra's from the alpha super-villain he is into just another weakened petty warlord by S3's end was. not. cool. And S3 must own that shoddy second-half treatment of Ra's, in my books, never mind S3's role in doubling down on Olicity by season's end.)

Haven't seen 5x03 as of yet, becuase I haven't had time. Well, as for S3 I can name a few good scenes:

1. 1:24 with Doctor Pressnall in Draw Back Your Bow.
2. All scenes with Amanda Waller.
3. Cupid kicking Oliver's ass.
4. Cupid's wedding plans. [srsly, it was so bad, that it was good]
5. Public Enemy police chase / Ollie walking to the police station
6. Arsenal & Black Canary epic team up
7. some awesome scenes with Quentin and his one-liners
8. some angsty scenes with Ollie staring into space & shooting grim glares (also bow shooting falls into this category)
9. the Arrow and the Flash scenes

.
.
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[no more footage found]

S4

1. Amanda Waller & Ollie I-don't-need-therapist in the bar
2. Quentin & Oliver heart to heart talk in 4x04, also The Handshake
3. Cupid scenes when she is not talking and not shooting two arrows at once in two different directions
4. some scenes with Laurel were okay
5. Constantine episode was quite fun to watch
6. Quentin's one-liners
7. opening/closing credits in every episode

Yeah, I know why I've stopped to watch season 4 eventually.

[Amarice]

Ah ok. No surprise that they would try to twist the ratings in that manner. I just want to believe that the showrunners have a clearer picture of what's going on. I mean, what's likelier? That long term viewers left because the show lost its way and ultimately killed off the second most important character in the Green Arrow mythos? Or that some shippers left because Olicity was temporarily halted?

Anyway, I think the show will ultimately go back to Olicity at some point, regardless of the ratings. That story isn't over.

^ This.

And yes, I'm afraid that they will eventually go back to Olicity, because some things just don't change. :S

[costas22]

^ This.

And yes, I'm afraid that they will eventually go back to Olicity, because some things just don't change. :S

Obviously the producers will claim that they don't know what lies ahead in the future, but I think it's very telling that they haven't completely ruled out Olicity happening in the future. If I remember well, before season 3 began, Amell did state that Oliver/Laurel would never happen again. So I think the window is still open. Depends on how quickly Felicity's relationship with the detective ends.

[canaryalive]

The episode was great! The GA fights vs the stardust dealer were awesome. I liked that the action is back on quality, GA having solo fights is what makes it good. I like him all in killer mode again.
I also liked the personal aspects in the episode. Felicity was cute this time, and I really felt her pain for Havenrock. She did show a lot of courage to admit her involvement to Ragman.
Thea was great also, I like the fact that she stood beside her mistakes. I like how Oliver told her to fix her own mess. That never happened till now.
I like Adrian Chase character, he promises to be interesting.
I like angry Green Arrow vs more light jokey mayor.
Diggle is interesting though only when Lyla is there. She brings everything to a whole new upper level to his story. Hope to see more Lyla/Oliver pairing next episode.
The recruits though are really boring, undeveloped with unclear motivations why are they there, especially Curtis. They seem more like a comic relief with no particular importance. It would have been nice to see Oliver work with more mature deep complex people than some who give vibe of spoiled teenagers and complain about physical pain but on the other hand want to fight crime. If there is such a problem how Oliver trains them and they don't like to be hit, why go out there at all.

[Amarice]

Obviously the producers will claim that they don't know what lies ahead in the future, but I think it's very telling that they haven't completely ruled out Olicity happening in the future. If I remember well, before season 3 began, Amell did state that Oliver/Laurel would never happen again. So I think the window is still open. Depends on how quickly Felicity's relationship with the detective ends.

It won't last till the end of season 5 IMO. I would set the deadline for the break up around 5x19-5x20.

Also, because Detective-Boyfriend is Norrington-type he will end up dead. I wonder which Trope is more awful A Decent Guy Dumped by A Girl Who Prefers Bad Guy Type or A Decent Guy Is The Villain < I'm afraid one of those is unavoidable because Copy-Pasta TV Tropes.

Nevertheless I'll watch season 5 as long as I found the amount of arrow shoots acceptable. Also as long as Ollie will be the badass vigilante.

[President_Luthor]

It won't last till the end of season 5 IMO. I would set the deadline for the break up around 5x19-5x20.

Also, because Detective-Boyfriend is Norrington-type he will end up dead. I wonder which Trope is more awful A Decent Guy Dumped by A Girl Who Prefers Bad Guy Type or A Decent Guy Is The Villain < I'm afraid one of those is unavoidable because Copy-Pasta TV Tropes.

Nevertheless I'll watch season 5 as long as I found the amount of arrow shoots acceptable. Also as long as Ollie will be the badass vigilante.

Norrington. I just saw a tv marathon of Pirates of the Caribbean a few weeks ago. Quite apt. Her guy's membership in the 'Honest Cop' crowd confirms it.

I think Detective Dude's fate is sealed. She's already lying to him and surely he's picked up something is amiss. The earliest he could check out permanently could be during US Thanksgiving, a popular relationship dumping ground. Or Xmas if they want to draw it out some more.

Unless the holiday season is the time he starts talking about Felicity being 'The One' -- just when Oliver is beginning to think of Felicity as more than an ex who is just his partner. He has the unlucky job of holding the 'Pause' button for Olicity. If/when the show presses 'Play', his days are surely numbered.

If we're lucky, he'll just be the nice guy who finishes last aka "Dude, you cannot catch a break!", he actually lives and pours his energies into saving the city as a lawman, fades into offscreen-ville and there aren't mushy operatic plans related to him. Slim odds, but maybe he's lucky enough to get obscurity instead of death.

His becoming a villain would be the worst case scenario with he and Oliver battling for the city streets, with the undercurrent of fighting for Felicity's love. Should I put [SPOILER] tags around this now? Let's hope not.

For the moment, this is the status quo:

Det. Billy Malone (standing atop city hall): "The Felicity ship is mine, gentlemen."

Anti-Crime Unit cops: "Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!"

[Amarice]

Norrington. I just saw a tv marathon of Pirates of the Caribbean a few weeks ago. Quite apt. Her guy's membership in the 'Honest Cop' crowd confirms it.

I think Detective Dude's fate is sealed. She's already lying to him and surely he's picked up something is amiss. The earliest he could check out permanently could be during US Thanksgiving, a popular relationship dumping ground. Or Xmas if they want to draw it out some more.

Unless the holiday season is the time he starts talking about Felicity being 'The One' -- just when Oliver is beginning to think of Felicity as more than an ex who is just his partner. He has the unlucky job of holding the 'Pause' button for Olicity. If/when the show presses 'Play', his days are surely numbered.

If we're lucky, he'll just be the nice guy who finishes last aka "Dude, you cannot catch a break!", he actually lives and pours his energies into saving the city as a lawman, fades into offscreen-ville and there aren't mushy operatic plans related to him. Slim odds, but maybe he's lucky enough to get obscurity instead of death.

His becoming a villain would be the worst case scenario with he and Oliver battling for the city streets, with the undercurrent of fighting for Felicity's love. Should I put [SPOILER] tags around this now? Let's hope not.

For the moment, this is the status quo:

Det. Billy Malone (standing atop city hall): "The Felicity ship is mine, gentlemen."

Anti-Crime Unit cops: "Huzzah! Huzzah! Huzzah!"

As for Norrington I was furious with his death in AWE that I wanted to leave the cinema. I've stayed though, after I've reminded myself how much the ticket cost. :S But after that film I don't trust trailers any more - AWE trailer was great, the film was horrible.

One mention about Olicity coming back or Felicity being Oliver's "light" and - as much as I love to exchange posts with you guys - I'm out of here - I have a lifeboat hanging on swang out davits ready to evacuate myself from R.M.S. Olicity. Since it's not 1912 I think there is enough lifeboats for men also if they don't want to go down with the ship (and captain Diggle). R.M.S. "Punisher", R.M.S. "Daredevil 3" and R.M.S. "Luke Cage" are in vincinity to help any survivors after ill-fated R.M.S. "Olicity" will crash with an iceberg of failed expectation to founder into deep and dark fandom waters.

[nate-dog1701d]

costas: because the Olicity Twitterheads are claiming responsibility on Guggenheim's timeline, saying its because of their current decision to "celebrate a dead bird and disrespect Felicity", amongst other oh-so-interesting phrases.

This is real? I only ever read about these types of things (including Guggenheim's oft-maligned Tumblr exchanges) on here, as I don't venture into those circles. This is ridiculous.