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Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Magenta?"

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
    ... learning to accept his limits, coming to terms with his mistakes, learning to be happy with the life he has as opposed to constantly trying to play god to make it better, etc...
    To me this fits with the phrase "move forward" which Jay said to Barry and then Barry repeated to Cisco in Paradox. Barry said something to the effect that all he could do at this point was move forward. Which, by repeatedly going back in time -- or at least planning to -- to try to "fix" things, he certainly had not been doing.

    (Also noticed on Arrow premiere this was repeated about 3 times with regard to Oliver...)

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    • #47
      Originally posted by costas22
      That's what episode 5.02 was about. Jay lectured him and he learned his lesson about time travel, ruining other people's lives and being content with what he has. Just like that. And to be honest, it's best they close that chapter. The sooner the audience forgets what a selfish fool he was during Flashpoint, the better. It's not like the character can ever be truly redeemed for those actions.
      I agree that's what episode 2 was supposed to be about, but it failed completely. As a viewer, I don't think they earned it, and I want them to earn it. It doesn't matter to me if they have to retread to get it right.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by Shelby Kent
        To me this fits with the phrase "move forward" which Jay said to Barry and then Barry repeated to Cisco in Paradox. Barry said something to the effect that all he could do at this point was move forward. Which, by repeatedly going back in time -- or at least planning to -- to try to "fix" things, he certainly had not been doing.
        Yeah, which is why I think that is the theme of this season. This is the year Barry learns to deal with problems when he only has one shot at the target. At least, I think it is. Once again, it's sort of muddled by the fact that the show really hasn't earned what I think it thinks it earned.

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        • #49
          Originally posted by Amarice
          Rather meh episode, it dragged in some parts way too long. Also, I can't count how many times various characters were saying:

          "I'll go talk to her."
          "Did you talk to her?"
          "You made her talk to me to talk me out of using my powers!"

          Also:

          "Thank you."

          Like, what the hell happened with the writing? It's even worse than everybody asking every five minutes "Are you okay?".
          Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And don't forget "Can you give us a minute?" So much cringe.


          BG, when you studied writing, did you ever have classes on how to write dialogue specifically? Just curious if that's a thing, or if it's mainly plot-focused.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by nate-dog1701d
            BG, when you studied writing, did you ever have classes on how to write dialogue specifically? Just curious if that's a thing, or if it's mainly plot-focused.
            No dialogue-specific classes. They were first half of the year Playwriting I, second half Screenwriting I, then the next year was II and II, etc... These classes were supplemented with several acting courses, various intensive film study courses, history of drama courses (mainly a history of theater around the world), a documentary course, a film production course (where we learned about lighting, sound, editing, etc...), a business of writing course, and production courses (where we directed our own film, and put on our own play). There were then some drama electives where you had a choice. One of mine, for example, was Women in Theater. Stuff like that.

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            • #51
              ^Good to know. Thanks.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                I know. It's because a lot of series get pitched based on great initial concepts that are executed in the first season or two. Then, they have to come up with something new and everyone realizes they don't have anything left to say. But that's the Arrow problem. The Flash problem seems to be that they never had anything original to say. They only had an Arrow clone.

                Hopefully I'm wrong and the first three episodes have just been hiccups.
                Yes, those are the main reasons. In 3 season of "Flash" I'm starting to get the some vibes I've got in season 3 of "Arrow" - that something is off and the pieces of puzzle don't quite come together. But maybe "Flash" will pick up some speed later on.

                Btw. thanks to nate-dog's post I found out that you studied writing. That's cool. I'm only amateur writer myself without any professional background, but it's one of my hobbies. (That's why it hurts so much when you see what they are doing to Flarrowverse at times < seriously, it's so interesting universe to write in it and it has so many plotholes and shipping nonsense!).

                Originally posted by nate-dog1701d
                Yeah, that's what I'm saying. And don't forget "Can you give us a minute?" So much cringe.


                BG, when you studied writing, did you ever have classes on how to write dialogue specifically? Just curious if that's a thing, or if it's mainly plot-focused.
                Yes, it gets painful after a while. I don't know, as if they didn't had enough material worth screentime with Magenta, and they had to drag on those "serious talks".

                It's curious thing about dialogues, because it seems as if they should be maybe not easiest to write, but cerainly the most natural to write - listening attentively to what people say and how they say it should provide some background/inspiration. And yet we end up with characters asking 247 times "Are you okay?" (That special cut of "Arrow" showing all characters asking that in first three seasons cracked me up - I wonder if someone did something like that for "Fash"? Or maybe will with that "Give us a minute".).

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Amarice
                  It's curious thing about dialogues, because it seems as if they should be maybe not easiest to write, but cerainly the most natural to write - listening attentively to what people say and how they say it should provide some background/inspiration. And yet we end up with characters asking 247 times "Are you okay?" (That special cut of "Arrow" showing all characters asking that in first three seasons cracked me up - I wonder if someone did something like that for "Fash"? Or maybe will with that "Give us a minute".).
                  Some of the dialogue related issues are due to the time constraints of working on an hour-long weekly show. That's how you end up with stuff like this:

                  "I work hard every day to provide for this family and this is what greets me? An empty table? I'm hungry now! And you speak when you're spoken to, girl. You understand me? I saved you from the orphanage, and I provide for you every day. So keep your mouth shut, Frankie, you got it?"

                  Let's be honest, this is terrible writing, but it's also a straight up exposition dump. The writers want to convey in a very short period of time that this man is abusive, that he's not her real father, and they also want to give us Magenta's name, because at that point in the episode we didn't have it yet. In real life, people who know each other don't usually say each other's name every five seconds or talk about information everyone in the room already knows. But the audience needs to be spoon fed, and they only have about 60 seconds of screentime to get to Frankie launching a lightpost at him.

                  Nate-dog mentioned another thing the Flash writers do wrong all the time, which is to have characters who LIVE WITH EACH OTHER have their important conversations in the workplace for no reason whatsoever. Wally and Joe needed to have that conversation at the police station? They couldn't have had it over breakfast? Or dinner? They used to do this CONSTANTLY with Iris and Eddie. Why they do this when they already have both sets built is beyond me, but it's probably some sort of logistical and scheduling reason would be my guess.

                  Another thing they do a lot is to have characters walk off screen to end a conversation before it can resolve, which is really just an excuse to extend the conflict to fill more time. In reality, if two people are talking about something serious, and one person decides to walk into the next room, the second person would probably just follow them.

                  You mentioned something they do a lot of as well, which is to have characters ask other characters how they are feeling or what they are thinking about in order to move things along. I honestly have no idea why they do that. That's just dumb.

                  I remember Smallville used to have trouble figuring out how to have Clark save the day without his secret getting out. This is why everyone in Smallville used to get knocked out cold from a tiny bump on the head, and why so many of the freaks of the week ended up dying somehow. Heaven forbid Clark carry around a ski mask. It's much better if we kill yet another high school aged kid week after week.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                    Some of the dialogue related issues are due to the time constraints of working on an hour-long weekly show. That's how you end up with stuff like this:

                    "I work hard every day to provide for this family and this is what greets me? An empty table? I'm hungry now! And you speak when you're spoken to, girl. You understand me? I saved you from the orphanage, and I provide for you every day. So keep your mouth shut, Frankie, you got it?"

                    Let's be honest, this is terrible writing, but it's also a straight up exposition dump. The writers want to convey in a very short period of time that this man is abusive, that he's not her real father, and they also want to give us Magenta's name, because at that point in the episode we didn't have it yet. In real life, people who know each other don't usually say each other's name every five seconds or talk about information everyone in the room already knows. But the audience needs to be spoon fed, and they only have about 60 seconds of screentime to get to Frankie launching a lightpost at him.
                    Yes, sometimes they need to put stuff like this to outline the setting as fast as possible. Maybe they postpone revealing some of those information till the interrogation scene, but still there is a risk that "stupid viewer" won't be able to put two and two together. :/

                    Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                    Nate-dog mentioned another thing the Flash writers do wrong all the time, which is to have characters who LIVE WITH EACH OTHER have their important conversations in the workplace for no reason whatsoever. Wally and Joe needed to have that conversation at the police station? They couldn't have had it over breakfast? Or dinner? They used to do this CONSTANTLY with Iris and Eddie. Why they do this when they already have both sets built is beyond me, but it's probably some sort of logistical and scheduling reason would be my guess.
                    Hey, showing the characters eating something would be too expensive apparently. But come to think of that it's really stupid that Joe and Wally tend to meet on the police station to talk about "serious stuff".

                    Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                    Another thing they do a lot is to have characters walk off screen to end a conversation before it can resolve, which is really just an excuse to extend the conflict to fill more time. In reality, if two people are talking about something serious, and one person decides to walk into the next room, the second person would probably just follow them.

                    You mentioned something they do a lot of as well, which is to have characters ask other characters how they are feeling or what they are thinking about in order to move things along. I honestly have no idea why they do that. That's just dumb.

                    I remember Smallville used to have trouble figuring out how to have Clark save the day without his secret getting out. This is why everyone in Smallville used to get knocked out cold from a tiny bump on the head, and why so many of the freaks of the week ended up dying somehow. Heaven forbid Clark carry around a ski mask. It's much better if we kill yet another high school aged kid week after week.
                    That's not suspicious at all.

                    I don't know, maybe the general problem is that those writers need to write really fast (no pun intended) and they just reuse the outlines of scenes that more or less work? I sometimes joke that fan fictions are better than plots they've been coming up with recently (especially in "Arrow" season 3 and 4), but the truth is that many things from fan fictions wouldn't work on the screen, because it's different medium. You just can't have characters staring into space and reflecting over their lives for 42 minutes, while in book you can put an introspective chapter like this.

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                    • #55
                      The most inexcusable issue is the unnatural sounding dialogue, to me. It'd be very simple to have a dialogue only person to clean up the garbage. Someone who has no plot responsibilities at all, whose only purpose is to make the dialogue sound like something real humans would say. Heck, I could do it. LoL

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Backward Galaxy
                        The most inexcusable issue is the unnatural sounding dialogue, to me. It'd be very simple to have a dialogue only person to clean up the garbage. Someone who has no plot responsibilities at all, whose only purpose is to make the dialogue sound like something real humans would say. Heck, I could do it. LoL


                        Not to go all off-topic here, but as much as I loved Smallville.....the show had a lot of goofy moments, especially dealing with exposure of Clark's powers. Like how Clark can freely use his powers in the Luthor Mansion without Lex seeing that on one of his countless, hidden and not hidden, video cameras. Lex can see anything else on those cameras, but apparently all of those times prior to finding out Clark's secret, seeing those hidden powers on camera was unavailable for reasons, lol

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                        • #57
                          'Magenta' is a good episode. We meet a metahuman who have magnetic powers who has a split personality. This person first appeared in a Teen Titans comic as Wally West's girlfriend, who has powers that she can't control. Her father was cruel to her and became her first target. After surviving the first attack, she went after him and has to stopped before she goes off the deep end. Let's hope that we'll see her again, this time as an ally of the Flash.

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