View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Everyone can know my secret - it was great!

    1 7.69%
  • 9

    3 23.08%
  • 8

    3 23.08%
  • 7

    1 7.69%
  • 6

    4 30.77%
  • 5

    1 7.69%
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  • 2

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  • 1 - Please let this be the last Arrow.

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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of the Arrow season premiere "Legacy?"

    What did you think?

  2. #2
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    Honestly, that was awesome. Maybe the best episode since The Magician, but better.

    I hope people can see past their pre conceived notions and view the episode for what it is.

    If that is what the season 5 has in store for us, it could be a great year.

  3. #3
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    While it was a step up from where the show left off,


    There were some really embarrassing and glaring missteps in this episode and some old bad habits that ruined what could have been a promising start


    Oliver still cant think for himself and he is acting so dumb and inconsistent.


    The callbacks to season 1 were too many and just became cringeworthy.


    Felicity still has too much screentime than needed.


    "Please dont let me be the last canary" WTF was that?


    Its the simplest things they could have fixed easily and they couldnt bother, that tells me a lot on how the season will be handled. I may still watch whenever I remember its on Wednesday but its not must watch anymore.

  4. #4
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I hope people can see past their pre conceived notions and view the episode for what it is.
    ^Based on this premiere, I'll second that.

    Way too much negativity out there, with not all of the criticism necessarily constructive. Not saying fans don't have some reason to be skeptical considering Arrow's previous seasons, I've done my fair share of calling out some of Arrow's missteps as series.

    I don't begrudge some fans from checking out of Arrow (or, heck, the whole Berlantiverse). They have their reasons, some of them quite valid. I'm not there yet and the premiere has persuaded me to at least remained invested for this season.

    Some of the pre-judging (before the premiere even aired) seems to be based on snippets of information taken out of context. All the hand-wringing over what Donna might do to Quentin as a character would be one example of this. (More about this later.) Mountains out of molehills, etc.

    This was a really good season premiere, action-heavy and definitely suggests a more promising S5.

    The story was written by Berlanti himself. Bamford was the director.

    The flashbacks were great (plenty of subtitles!), Anatoly's back and Ollie's on course to joining the Bratva. I totally loved the Russian proverb about sharks, it nicely tied together both the past and the present.

    Ollie's S1 hit list makes its first appearance this season. And, yeah, Oliver's flashback hair is gloriously awful. As it should be.

    Yeah, Ollie's three months did (off-screen during the hiatus) consist of slacking on his mayoral day job while trying to do his night job without a team. But by the end of the ep., Ollie has turned a new leaf and has taken some first steps in becoming a decent pro-active mayor -- something completely in line with Ollie/GA in the comics. And while it was expected that Felicity would be constantly urging him to be both a good mayor and recruit new team members, Quentin had a significant role in getting him to move forward.

    Thea was the most "normal", having unplugged and resumed a normal life. She seemed to be on-point as Ollie's chief of staff, plus she stood her ground on Ollie's questionable decision to put killing back on the table, she even invoked the idea that what they do out there should be "honourable" aka wanton killing blackens the cause -- and oh yeah, he dropped plenty of bodies.

    (Unrelated: Could Thea's skirt be any shorter? Not an issue, just an observation. Half the time I was wondering if she forgot the pants at the dry cleaners. Legs! There, I said it. Related to this: I could not tear my eyes away from Felicity. Story be damned, she was delicious this ep. Kudos to the show's costume crew )

    Good to see Tyreese, umm I mean Tobias Church chew the scenery and I'm glad they're ramping up the underworld conflict. Leave the magic 'n metas to the other series -- Ollie's main foes should always have been gangsters and lowlife hoods. It looks like we'll see plenty more of this. Bonus points for actual corrupt cops making an appearance early on, the fans probably needed a reminder that the police force was always full of rotten apples.

    Not a whole lot of melodrama, and the stuff that was there was in context -- whether it was Ollie still hiding behind Laurel's death to justify his treading water on the political and vigilante fronts or Quentin falling off the wagon during the hiatus. Confirmed: he and Donna are splitsville. [Having seen The Flash premiere, where Iris was Barry's "light" in pushing him to become the hero he was meant to be, maybe Flashpoint's side-effects include swapping Arrow melodrama over to Flash.]

    So we can discard much of the concerns about Quentin's subplots being sucked into Donna melodrama. No Donna, we can assume, means this potentially looming problem has just evaporated, barring some unforeseen reconciliation. Translation: one less reason to fear for Quentin's fate.

    He sobered up quickly, so we don't have to worry about weeks of Quentin's pity party -- since he had that party during the hiatus. Quentin even played a part in vetting the clean cops that are going to form this new Anti-Crime Unit. I'm not exactly sure if this means he's back on the force or he's now just a freelance detective on-call to Team Arrow, but he's back in the loop. He even had a role in making Thea start to question if giving up her vigilante persona for good was the best choice.

    I know much hay was made in the fandom about Ollie's promise to Laurel, which was to ensure that she wasn't going to be the last Canary. I totally get the fans' concerns that they're just going to slap the Canary label on someone else, even Felicity. It would be the "Oracle codename" brouhaha times a hundred. If they're borrowing again from BB, the whole idea of an incorruptible symbol would fit into this narrative if they choose this route.

    But I might also interpret it to mean that she doesn't want Ollie to go solo and that he should have teammates -- like herself -- that he can lean on. Of course, it could also suggest that Laurel sees it one way and Ollie another.

    Laurel: "Please don't let me be the last Canary." [Translation: Don't be a solo vigilante. I can't be there, but you should make sure you have people around you who have your back.]

    I'll concede that this interpretation may be too abstract ... for Oliver. Laurel wasn't exactly in the condition to explain it to him in detail.

    What Ollie hears: You need to find another Canary to continue my legacy.

    I know a lot of fans are making the leap that this other Canary is going to be Felicity. Spoilers and vague interviews aside, nothing in the premiere on-screen suggests this is even the route. That Laurel-Ollie flashback wasn't even two minutes, whereas the emphasis on bringing back both old and new team members was a significant subplot. Maybe it'll be Artemis who'll emerge as a "new Canary" by proxy. Diggle is still serving his country, but he backed Ollie's idea to rebuild a Team Arrow.

    Oh, and Felicity's got a new guy. Diggle was shipping Olicity again , but he didn't know Olicity is on a break and it's for the moment Hipster-licity. That dude is doomed, we all know it, he may as well book a Valentine's Day guys' outing in Vegas with his bros.

    Ollie was front-and-centre here, with Thea and Quentin playing significant roles in the story. Felicity was there, but she had her hands full with Team Arrow: TNG. So far the only name that's on their radar is Wild Dog, but it looks like they've got a few prospects eager to sign up. Apparently they were inspired by Ollie defeating Darhk.

    Prometheus popped in, but it was just a teaser hook. Let's just say he wants to undermine some of the good work Mayor Oliver was doing.

    I enjoyed this premiere (Yes, it was better than The Flash's, if we're matching ep. to ep. It's not even close). It was high-octane, fast-paced and made nice S1 references to Ollie's origins and how it may influence his future. Too fast-paced? A lot of moving parts, but I felt as a viewer that I wasn't lost either.

    A solid S5 premiere. Easily in the 7.5 - 8.0 range. If you're still an Arrow fan, there is hope that the series is going back to the roots that made it a solid series back in S1.

    And to think I was initially going to give just a few brief impressions.

  5. #5
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    It was a nice start to season 5 it will be interesting to see what type of new team Oliver and Felicity Build. I think they could do without Oliver being the Mayor though.

  6. #6
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Said this the other day, but I expected a decent premiere. It's usually after the premiere that Arrow seasons go to hell. And I am still not convinced this season will be any different. The annoying aspects of the show were toned down, but they are still there. It was better than Flashpoint though. That much is certain. Random thoughts:

    - I love the fact that this was an Oliver focused episode. And I also loved the fact that he was badass. However, I am not on board with everything they did with him in this episode. Sorry if I'm repeating stuff I said in the spoiler thread, but the show has to stop treating the public figure of Oliver Queen as garbage. He can't seem to do anything right. Whether it's being CEO or being the Mayor. Other characters on this show (Felicity and Laurel) could balance day jobs with Team Arrow obligations. They were more competent than him? As for Oliver killing again, I'll just agree with Thea. It's a setback. How many times are they going to do the kill/don't kill dilemma on this show? It's been done to death! No pun intended. Not to mention that Oliver's reasons for reverting to killing weren't exactly convincing. Isn't he supposed to be honoring Tommy's memory? I guess Barry isn't the only Berlantiverse hero who keeps regressing and then re-learning his lessons, hey?

    - Thea really stood out in this episode. Willa has been killing it the last 2 years. I am not sure what her actual storyline is or if she even has one, but I'll definitely enjoy every minute she's on screen. Especially in those shorts.

    - The Laurel related stuff in this episode was cringeworthy. The statue was lame (seriously, that's the best design they could come up with?) and her request to Oliver was even lamer. Regardless of my worries about Felicity assuming the mantle, the truth is that there shouldn't another Black Canary (or simply "Canary") on Arrow. Laurel should have been the final version. Now they are just making her one of the Canaries this show will produce. And if that's the case, why did she have "The Black Canary" engraved on her statue and gravestone? LOL. And I actually have to disagree with President Luthor. Laurel didn't tell Oliver to get more help, period. She specifically told him to get another Canary. Hence the whole "I want to feel like a part of me is out there with you" borderline masochistic bit. The fact that she didn't even name her sister as that person was the icing on the cake.

    - I don't see any signs of the show righting the wrongs with Felicity. She's still calling the shots, she's still the one to be more right than Oliver, they are still focusing on her love life and Diggle is still pimping Olicity!

    - Nice to know that Lance sacrificed his career in the police for a woman he broke it off with after a few months. Now show, let this be the last time Donna is spoken of on Arrow!

    - Not crazy about the new Team Arrow idea. This episode worked exactly because Oliver was the focal point. And with Diggle eventually coming back, we are possibly talking about a team even more bloated than last season's, but only with a bunch of strangers. Meh.

    - Tobias Church was a your typical Arrow generic villain. Credit to Chad Coleman for trying to make something out of him. One of the problems the show has is that it enlargened the scale so much in seasons 3 and 4, that street crime feels anti climatic now.

    - I'm all for season 1 homages, but they really felt like a desperate "we are going back to our roots!" attempt to convince the viewers.

    - Not much to say about Prometheus. I'm waiting for his story to be told.

    6/10
    Last edited by costas22; 10-06-2016 at 04:00 AM.

  7. #7
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    "don't let me be the last canary"

    Black Siren? Easy out.

  8. #8
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    That was fairly good. The two standout characters for me were Thea and Tobias Church.

    Thea has matured so much since Season One and it is just fantastic to see. Whilst Oliver is going backwards, Thea is very much moving forward.

    I really really like Tobias Church. He seems very cool. The actor is great too.

    With the exception of Stephen Amell's Russian accent, you can tell that a lot of effort has been spent on the flashbacks. His acting didn't really do anything for me until Oliver's scene with Diggle. He seemed to really miss Diggle.

    I find it odd and extremely out of character that Felicity doesn't seem to care that Oliver is killing people again. She was so vehemently against it in Season One.

    Unless Prometheus turns out to be a major character we have seen before, I reckon he will probably be one of the police officers, if not the captain (don't know what his name is but I think he has been in it since Season One), in the SCPD.

  9. #9
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    I gave it a 9/10. Far as I'm concerned, the Felicity in this episode was not the same one I've been hating for the past two seasons. More in my review on that, and the whole 'last Canary' thing.

  10. #10
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    So let's get to it

    I really, liked how Oliver centric this episode was. It's been nice to see that after what? 3x10 when they seemed to be focusing more on the team then Oliver himself. Which actually felt like he was back to calling the shots again.

    Now, The Hood is back of killing both in and out of his Green Arrow suit. I hope this sticks around for a long while.

    A call back to season 1 of Oliver getting beat up before breaking out of the zip cuffs and killing the guy. While it's a clear call back, without a doubt but it was neat and I actually had a smile on my face.

    I will say Feclity wasn't really that bad in this episode and giving her a reduced presence majorly helped in that area.

    Glad Quentin and Donna broke up. It looks like there going to keep that way and I have to wonder if it's due to the actress's insulting and just being a rude person to the rest of the cast and even fans, at one of those convention things earlier this summer is why Donna's gone.

    Now the flashbacks, well for starters they are already moving faster and have more substance which has improved them from last year's season 4.

    We get to see Oliver killing a guy in a underground fighting ring along with having picked up Russian. Nice to see they remembered that compared to season 3 Hong Kong where they forget about Oliver's ability to speak Chinese.

    Oliver's long hair returns and I missed that wig.

    Which The List makes a come back briefly and Anatoly Knyazev shows back up. We learn how Oliver's able to break out of zip cuffs by dislocating his thumbs.

    Above all we finally learn why Oliver joins The Bratva in order to get help of taking down Kovar.

    Anatoly gives Oliver a piece of advice that affects him in the present and in the past, I have the feeling that is what's going to send him on his journey back home to Starling to right his father's wrongs.

    Tobias Chruch is an enjoyable bad guy and also is nice to get back to street level problems.

    That Laurel statue is well good all the way up until the face then it just gets horrible. Also Laurel's promise in the flashbacks uh kind of flat. I would have preferred the version we saw in that one trailer compared to "Don't let me be the last Canary" which just seems a little selfish.

    So Arrow feels like a return to it's earlier years with the solid action, less focus on melodrama and darker tone. I hope they keep it that way through out season 5.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 10-06-2016 at 07:50 AM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post


    I gave it a 9/10. Far as I'm concerned, the Felicity in this episode was not the same one I've been hating for the past two seasons. More in my review on that, and the whole 'last Canary' thing.
    Good video and review. I would have gone onto You Tube but since I was logged in on here, I just decided to post a reply here.

    I chuckled at your comment about the Nerdiest review.

    Agreed on they probably went and wrote up Oliver's speech about Laurel's statue after Twitter/Tumbler got flooded.

    Yeah, Thea's starting to annoy me again as well. Constantly lecturing lecturing Oliver, yeah that reminds me to much of when she threw certain fits in season 1 and yeah her on about the killing thing, is like just go away.

  12. #12
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    Sadly that Laurel flashback was there just so they could have Laurel give her 'blessing' to Ollie -- and the show -- to find her new replacement/continue her legacy. At this point they're not really caring how the scene will impact Laurel herself. What I'm saying is they should have made the promise be more than 'I want to live on as BC, even if someone else wears the mask'. As for continuing her legacy, this is much more than just putting someone else in the mask. Which is why merely giving her persona to another is not enough, they will have to walk the walk and not just dress up like a Canary.

    Considering we've already seen a precedent of an evil doppelganger turning from heel to face (Killer Frost on Flash, I know too little too late), I think it's totally reasonable to think that they could try to do the same with Black Siren. In other words, I don't think it's set in stone that they are going full-throttle in converting Felicity to BC. Is it likely they'll go that route? Sure it is. Do I think she's the sole candidate? Not at all.

    I know Sara was the proto-Canary, though as far as I'm concerned the only 'Black' Canary that was and will ever be on Arrow was Laurel. If there ever was a time Sara 'could' be the next Canary, I think that moment passed when she herself died. I think her future is in LoT and will remain so. It wouldn't do her character or Arrow any favours by backsliding and rejoining Team Arrow.

    I will say that she is probably the only candidate that would, if not satisfy most fans, then at least win some grudging acknowledgment as the most acceptable Canary heir. I don't think so just because LoT needs Sara, desperately, to remain on their roster. It's an okay show with few real standout stars -- and Sara is one of them. Lose her, and a lot of viewers would go with her.

    I remained convinced that BC will remain dead and that any sort of bait-and-switch, whoever they choose, will be more like that person symbolizing what Laurel represented to Ollie as a team member. As for this person actually 'being' The Black Canary, no, the statue is there for a reason. I also found it interesting that called her 'The' Black Canary on the statue -- I believe it's also on her gravestone. They drop that 'The', then maybe BC would appear to be little more than a title that anyone can pick up. But they sealed that in stone -- twice. Maybe it's existential me talking this time, but I'm thinking they're not going to just hand over the BC persona willy-nilly. I'm not even a fan of their doing a Siren switcheroo, it's a bit of a cheat in my books even though it might appease BC fans who want any sort of Canary by Ollie's side at series' end. They can stick whoever in a mask and leather all they want, they won't 'be' The Black Canary. Because she's dead, she died for the cause.

    Were they to go with the we-can-give-BC-title-to-anyone , the only scenarios that wouldn't totally tick off the fandom would be a) Sara coming back to pick up where Laurel left off. Good for the Sara-is-my-Canary crowd ... terrible for Sara as a character, and disastrous for LoT, b) any Laurel doppelganger from another earth. Heel-to-face turn by Black Siren would be cheat way to still have Laurel and placate the Laurel-as-BC-or-bust fans, even though Laurel is gone and to remain meaningful she'd have to stay that way c) letting one of the new crew honour BC's memory by continuing her legacy. A risky move that could just as easily fall flat.

    Felicity as a Canary? If they really wanted to sell this idea, that work practically should have begun many seasons ago. Seasons that Felicity no longer has. You can't upsize a small fries into a large fries without paying the extra cost, and no one will convince me that she has the magic coupon to do that. Possessing Ollie's love doesn't count. Like I said, this would be the whole 'Oracle codename crisis' at operatic levels if they think they can make that journey and sell it without paying the freight costs. Which pretty much describes Felicity's characterization S3 on.

    Count me in on S5 Willa Watch. Long may Thea reign as chief of staff. (I didn't even realize those were shorts.)

    Even though I groaned when Diggle (again) plugged Olicity, the way it was edited I thought it was a bit of a burn they followed it up with that brief scene with Felicity and whoever-the-heck her new guy is. In other words, Diggle was backing the wrong horse in the race. (Yeah, yeah, he was always backing the wrong horse.) Of course it's temporary, her hipster dude doesn't stand a chance.

    Most fans, myself included, see Donna's departure as a good thing. Wouldn't have been good for Quentin if he was stuck in SmoakinLance melodrama purgatory for much of the season. They wisely left Quentin's months-long boozy pity party off-screen during the hiatus. If there is any blowback, I think it would be that we won't get to see as much of the Calculator. But if the only reason they'd bring him back is to have him squabble with Donna then this is also a blessing.

    All the fandom fuming about this potential poor direction for Quentin -- which, surprise surprise, didn't even pan out as of 5.01 -- is just one example of where what fans think is going to happen and what actually happens on-screen doesn't even match up. There's a lesson there.

    I do see how they could be hammering on the kill/no kill dilemma over and over again. At some point, he will have to decide -- soon -- if it's on the table for good or not. Thea is right in that going full-on Hood mode will ultimately be bad for GA's reputation, but Ollie is also right that in his world, his hand may be forced. Ollie killed a few people that he didn't necessarily need to, so it's an issue that he and the show need to resolve soon.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    ... One of the problems the show has is that it enlargened the scale so much in seasons 3 and 4, that street crime feels anti climatic now.

    - I'm all for season 1 homages, but they really felt like a desperate "we are going back to our roots!" attempt to convince the viewers.
    I agree -- on principle.

    This goes more to my views on what Flash in the beginning did in opening up the DCTV. Arrow, for the longest time, wanted to remain grounded but once the 'Metas! Magic! Time travel!' box was opened, Arrow was always facing an uphill battle. My view on this hasn't changed and the show will continue to have this grounded vs. fantastical identity crisis. They've have to completely erase S1 to change this, change the nature of Arrow's DNA as a series. I'm of the view that Arrow should just stop trying to adjust to how the rest of Flarrowverse is evolving. It's run into problems when it tries to do this.

    A shared universe is fine in theory, but when Team Barry barely blinks an eye at Havenrock (do they even know it happened?) then I frankly don't care that Flashpoint will mean next-to-nothing in the Arrowverse. Minimal timeline blowback on Arrow? Good, I say. If it is shared, then this applies to everything, the door swinging both ways. If not, then separate-except-for-crossovers is the acceptable default setting for me.

    Having said that, with the reality that S5 is a closing of a chapter -- they can't retcon that the five-year journey they supposedly mapped out is approaching the final lap -- I'm expecting more than a few nods to its past including S1. And with the 100th episode fast approaching this season, nostalgia and a taking into account of what the show is will surely be on deck. I do agree that they could easily slip into too many S1 shoutouts than is necessary. One shout-out I did think was needed was the resurfacing of his hit list. That list pretty much will define him at the dawn of S1.

    Making a new Team Arrow was one of the 'cause for concern' elements I had and this still is the case. Too many masks was a problem esp as S4 went on, with the simple fact that more members meant less Oliver story-wise. I don't know how this won't be the case with 'new' members. As for the new members themselves, I am worried that it would be too easy for them to repackage rookie Roy/Thea/Laurel subplots and serve them to us as new Team Arrow subplots. Even if one of them (Artemis, maybe?) becomes a Canary-by-proxy and thus fulfills Ollie's promise to Laurel, I don't think all of them could or should remain permanent roster members.

    If they are sticking to Arrow's gritty and realistic roots, then I fully expect one or more of them won't make it -- either by death, burnout or exile. Not as ideal: they become essentially Team Arrow reservists on-call operating solo most of the time, with much of their vigilante work being done off-screen. If all of them are hanging around by season's end, then it will be Too-Many-Masks 2.0.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post

    I know Sara was the proto-Canary, though as far as I'm concerned the only 'Black' Canary that was and will ever be on Arrow was Laurel. If there ever was a time Sara 'could' be the next Canary, I think that moment passed when she herself died. I think her future is in LoT and will remain so. It wouldn't do her character or Arrow any favours by backsliding and rejoining Team Arrow.

    I will say that she is probably the only candidate that would, if not satisfy most fans, then at least win some grudging acknowledgment as the most acceptable Canary heir. I don't think so just because LoT needs Sara, desperately, to remain on their roster. It's an okay show with few real standout stars -- and Sara is one of them. Lose her, and a lot of viewers would go with her.
    Not an expert on the Berlanti shows' schedule, but I think they can find a way to make it work. Legends won't run until next May. It has a 13-episode season and 8 of those episodes will air before Christmas. Meaning that season 2 will end by late February, unless more episodes are ordered. Shooting will probably wrap up a few weeks earlier, so Caity will have plenty of time to finish up on LoT and return to Arrow for the last 8-10 episodes of season 5.

    So Caity's availability isn't an issue. This storyline doesn't look like being explored immediately anyway. Personally speaking, I disagree with that move. Aside from the fact that I don't want anyone else in the role, it sounds like backtracking on the show's part.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    Felicity as a Canary? If they really wanted to sell this idea, that work practically should have begun many seasons ago. Seasons that Felicity no longer has. You can't upsize a small fries into a large fries without paying the extra cost, and no one will convince me that she has the magic coupon to do that. Possessing Ollie's love doesn't count. Like I said, this would be the whole 'Oracle codename crisis' at operatic levels if they think they can make that journey and sell it without paying the freight costs. Which pretty much describes Felicity's characterization S3 on.
    I agree with the analogy. Under normal circumstances, this shouldn't even be considered. But there are a couple of things that make me worried that they are headed there: (a) The showrunners' comment that Felicity will do something in the second half of the season that she hasn't done yet, (b) Another comment by the showrunners that Laurel's request will be addressed until the end of the season (possibly a connection with point a) and (c) Guggenheim's tendency to spit on the canon in favor of Felicity should never be underestimated.

    All that said, there is something that was mentioned last night by Felicity that went over my head at first. During an arguement with Oliver, Felicity cited the promise Oliver made while trying to convince him that he needs new partners. So while I shrugged it off at first, maybe an arguement could be made that Oliver and Felicity interpreted Laurel's request as a need to bulk up the team in general. Or, maybe Felicity doesn't have a clear idea about what Laurel's request actually was. At the end of the day, if the formation of Team Arrow 2.0 stemmed from that dying wish, I'm perfectly fine with it. It's just that Laurel's request was very specific. She was talking about a new Canary.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I do see how they could be hammering on the kill/no kill dilemma over and over again. At some point, he will have to decide -- soon -- if it's on the table for good or not. Thea is right in that going full-on Hood mode will ultimately be bad for GA's reputation, but Ollie is also right that in his world, his hand may be forced. Ollie killed a few people that he didn't necessarily need to, so it's an issue that he and the show need to resolve soon.
    The show offered a fairly balanced resolution at the end of Schism, didn't it? Oliver might have to kill when it's absolutely necessary, but he's also the same person who can be a beacon of light for others. Even Felicity finally accepted this dichotomy of his character. It was actually one of the few good things the season 4 finale did. And now, we are back to Hood Oliver dropping bodies even when it isn't necessary and *seemingly* having lost most of his hope again. Oliver's killing dilemma is like Quentin's drinking issue. We are probably stuck with it until the end of the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    A shared universe is fine in theory, but when Team Barry barely blinks an eye at Havenrock (do they even know it happened?) then I frankly don't care that Flashpoint will mean next-to-nothing in the Arrowverse. Minimal timeline blowback on Arrow? Good, I say. If it is shared, then this applies to everything, the door swinging both ways. If not, then separate-except-for-crossovers is the acceptable default setting for me.
    You'll get no arguement from me. There were times last season when the lack of evidence of a shared universe was infuriating: Havenrock not being addressed, Laurel's death not mentioned on The Flash, Barry having superspeed on Arrow at a time when he had lost it... Actually, I wanted a complete separation. It's hypocritical to do the big crossover every December and pretend everything is perfectly aligned when it clearly isn't.

    Mind you, it is kind of funny how selective they were about Flashpoint's effects on Arrow. They didn't want to change anything in regards to Oliver, Felicity, Thea and so forth, but they did look at it as a perfect opportunity to retcon Diggle's family...

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    If they are sticking to Arrow's gritty and realistic roots, then I fully expect one or more of them won't make it -- either by death, burnout or exile. Not as ideal: they become essentially Team Arrow reservists on-call operating solo most of the time, with much of their vigilante work being done off-screen. If all of them are hanging around by season's end, then it will be Too-Many-Masks 2.0.
    Excellent point. The positive is that only Curtis is on a series regular contract. So hopefully there's a plan to use the other three for a few episodes and then write them off. Or maybe Berlanti will use Team Arrow 2.0 as a vehicle to introduce these characters to LoT if it gets a 3rd season.

  15. #15
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Thank you for the reviews, guys, especially @President_Luthor, @JDBentz and @Haggard01. Watched on YT the opening scene with Ollie beating the crap out of Anarky. One can clearly see Bamford's hand in how the scene was shoot. I was wondering "is he going to use an arrow or not" and a shocker, it turned out even quite nasty (an arrow through a knee, an arrow through the forearms etc. < btw. is that even possible? Ah, I don't want to know).

    I guess I will watch the episode then. Especially that I like how the upgraded costume looks like in live action. (There is a reason why I have Carrie in my avatar ). Small change and it's a lot of an improvement!

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