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  1. #46
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    ^Then I think it would be nice if they could give the poor guy an honourable exit from the show. By which I do not mean riding off into the sunset w/ Donna But I don't expect these showrunners to show any kind of respect or regard for the characters really.

  2. #47
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    As much as I am not-at-all-impressed w/ Arrow showrunners, I just cannot bring myself to believe they will limit the Quentin character’s storyline to a domestic-focused-one: being in a relationship w/ Donna Smoak! Please please please no! Please: no “paralleling” of storylines here, where the Quentin character is “saved” from his own personal darkness by the love and dim 10-wattage bulb light of a “good” shallow woman.
    There did it already with Oliver, so why not with Quentin? Again I wish he just died in season 4 than became so useless. (I read this info, so now I can't unseen it).

    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    They'll probably find something for Quentin to do. Whether it's working for Team Arrow regularly or with Oliver as mayor. The problem however remains. The character serves no actual purpose anymore. His best known attributes were being Laurel's father and being a cop.
    He could become a private eye. Simple. But not simple enough for CW-shows-reality, where relationships outside romances don't exists.

    What happen to Quentin is almost as sad as their thinking that the only purpose women serve in "Arrow" is to have one-night stand with Oliver/become a love interest.

    It explains why Amanda Waller died - she was not suitable for a love interest.

  3. #48
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    You know, I'm going to have a bit of vicious humor right now, so feel free to ignore it.

    Now, in looking back at KSite's own archives, we find that as far back as before the show aired, Marc Guggenheim referred to the show as a 'crime drama'. Specifically, he said (when he was still much more beholden to Berlanti and Kreisberg as the more veteran showrunners) that they saw it as a crime drama. Now, for those who don't know, crime fiction is, put simply, not the happy kind of fiction. Yes, romance is often a part of it, but those romances are often doomed, period, and we have certainly seen that with everyone involved with Oliver to date. As far as final fates go:

    1. Shado - Dead.
    2. Taiana - Dead.
    3. Helena - In prison until they decide to acknowledge her again (sorry, don't count the comics since they have apparently changed things from their own canon).
    4. McKenna - Career ruined, possibly still going through rehabilitation, courtesy of Helena.
    5. Sara - Killed, Resurrected, Currently Running About with the last Time Master.
    6. Laurel - Dead.

    So, while Olicity fans cheer the fact that there is no romantic interest to keep Oliver from keeping his romantic focus on Felicity Smoak, I cheer about the fact that they've inadvertently put the biggest-ever target on their favorite's back. Because despite my problems with the show, guess what? It remains a crime-drama. Oh, and take a look at another recent crime-drama for some evidence of what we could expect:

    [SPOILER]Person of Interest recently finished its run, and most people agree that the main human character was John Reese. Of the people that have been in this show since Season 2, 3 are dead, one has left the duty, and the remaining two seem to be moving forward with the original mission. John Reese, considered by many to be the main human character since he was the one we followed the most, in the field and elsewhere, was KIA in order to allow his employer to have a chance at happiness. One can figure the only reason Finch and his fiance get a chance to have a happily ever after is because of some clause in Michael Emerson's contract. Sadly, as much as Olicity fans think otherwise, neither Emily nor Stephen have that kind of pull, or if they do they haven't decided to use it. Person of Interest also showed that aside from Finch and Grace, all other relationships in the crime drama were ended quite horribly: Reese/Carter, Reese/Therapist, Fusco/Whomever, Root/Shaw...[/SPOILER]

    So, yes, I'm fine with the Olicity fans having their victory now. Because as much as I despise the romantic entanglements, looked at objectively, they do fit the mold of the kind of romance you see in a crime drama. So the show remains such, and now Felicity Smoak is the only remaining love interest. *vicious grin* I can't even muster the energy to pretend I feel sorry for them. They've brought whatever might come upon themselves.

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    You know, I'm going to have a bit of vicious humor right now, so feel free to ignore it.

    Now, in looking back at KSite's own archives, we find that as far back as before the show aired, Marc Guggenheim referred to the show as a 'crime drama'. Specifically, he said (when he was still much more beholden to Berlanti and Kreisberg as the more veteran showrunners) that they saw it as a crime drama. Now, for those who don't know, crime fiction is, put simply, not the happy kind of fiction. Yes, romance is often a part of it, but those romances are often doomed, period, and we have certainly seen that with everyone involved with Oliver to date. As far as final fates go:

    1. Shado - Dead.
    2. Taiana - Dead.
    3. Helena - In prison until they decide to acknowledge her again (sorry, don't count the comics since they have apparently changed things from their own canon).
    4. McKenna - Career ruined, possibly still going through rehabilitation, courtesy of Helena.
    5. Sara - Killed, Resurrected, Currently Running About with the last Time Master.
    6. Laurel - Dead.

    So, while Olicity fans cheer the fact that there is no romantic interest to keep Oliver from keeping his romantic focus on Felicity Smoak, I cheer about the fact that they've inadvertently put the biggest-ever target on their favorite's back. Because despite my problems with the show, guess what? It remains a crime-drama. Oh, and take a look at another recent crime-drama for some evidence of what we could expect:

    [SPOILER]Person of Interest recently finished its run, and most people agree that the main human character was John Reese. Of the people that have been in this show since Season 2, 3 are dead, one has left the duty, and the remaining two seem to be moving forward with the original mission. John Reese, considered by many to be the main human character since he was the one we followed the most, in the field and elsewhere, was KIA in order to allow his employer to have a chance at happiness. One can figure the only reason Finch and his fiance get a chance to have a happily ever after is because of some clause in Michael Emerson's contract. Sadly, as much as Olicity fans think otherwise, neither Emily nor Stephen have that kind of pull, or if they do they haven't decided to use it. Person of Interest also showed that aside from Finch and Grace, all other relationships in the crime drama were ended quite horribly: Reese/Carter, Reese/Therapist, Fusco/Whomever, Root/Shaw...[/SPOILER]

    So, yes, I'm fine with the Olicity fans having their victory now. Because as much as I despise the romantic entanglements, looked at objectively, they do fit the mold of the kind of romance you see in a crime drama. So the show remains such, and now Felicity Smoak is the only remaining love interest. *vicious grin* I can't even muster the energy to pretend I feel sorry for them. They've brought whatever might come upon themselves.
    Bravo. Well done and good post. *crackles with laughter* yea the Olicty fans have brought this upon themselves and I really hope they still true to the crime drama aspects and deliver a proper ending in that same vein to Felicty Smoak and Olicty.

  5. #50
    Forum Regular Arrow_47's Avatar
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    My posts should reveal I am no big fan of Felicity. The Olicity relationship I could live with...if they made the character more believable and likeable. It is sad that MG and company would have us rooting for the bad guy over the heroes. Season one Felicity was awesome. At that point, having Oliver and her falling for each other was okay with me. Having her become the star of the show is where they lost me. The only time I've liked her since was the Goth appearance.

  6. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow_47 View Post
    My posts should reveal I am no big fan of Felicity. The Olicity relationship I could live with...if they made the character more believable and likeable. It is sad that MG and company would have us rooting for the bad guy over the heroes. Season one Felicity was awesome. At that point, having Oliver and her falling for each other was okay with me. Having her become the star of the show is where they lost me. The only time I've liked her since was the Goth appearance.
    Their problem here was they let themselves get carried away. They let themselves get carried away with their favorite creation, something they created themselves that was outside of original GA cannon, Felicity. It's like she was their first born child or something and they now see fit to spoil her and baby her to her heart's content. They also let themselves get carries away with fan interaction with in a single focus group: Twitter and tumblr. They figured those would be the most likely places they could gather fans who would be more interested in romance than DC lore so they can continue to baby their Felicity character.

    If the CW people managed to keep themselves in check with self pride then we'd probably have an entirely different show, more along the lines of season 1 & 2 yet still continuing the path of branching out the DC universe into its proper world of Magic, gods and monsters that DC comics fans know and love.

    Unfortunately, now you have the wrong people in charge in arrow. Unless ratings dip so horribly they take a LOOOOOONG pause during mid season finale to shake up management head back to the drawing board, my guess is the CW will wait out the next season until the end of its run to see what happens next. If ratings dip horribly low, they may well end up cancelling the show all out and cut losses, blame it on the DC Green Arrow character instead of taking responsibility (we all know how pass the buck goes). Or they may finally decide to get new people in charge who knows what they are doing and bring arrow back to ground into DC lore and stop this overwash of romance garbage.

    My hope is for the first option: let the first part of the season fail miserably, so that when they come back from break, we see Felicity get shot in the head or something. The only way I see this Felicity Smoak show garbage ending is for her character to be killed. Have her be killed, have Oliver remind himself that HE'S the one in charge of team arrow, he formed it and should run it. Rebuild the team from the ground up if you have to, and for god's sake don't let entire team members be written in the corner so badly that they essentially get ignored unless they are needed to launch a new show. It's terrible and lazy writing.

  7. #52
    Forum Regular Arrow_47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TyrantLord View Post
    It's like she was their first born child or something and they now see fit to spoil her and baby her to her heart's content.
    Great analogy, and apart from having her killed off, ITA with the rest of your post. Truly the storylines suffered due to them force-feeding her down the viewers' throats. If only they learned the lesson that less is more she could have become a less polarizing and fun character.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow_47 View Post
    Great analogy, and apart from having her killed off, ITA with the rest of your post. Truly the storylines suffered due to them force-feeding her down the viewers' throats. If only they learned the lesson that less is more she could have become a less polarizing and fun character.
    I think the problem stems from romance itself. Granted it IS what the CW is known for, but they have to pick their targets and battles better. Just because Oliver and felicity are the top two characters on the show does NOT mean they have to be romantically involved. I think they were trying to kill two birds with one stone and now they've written themselves into a messy corner, trying to fix too much of the rest of the show so it can cope with this relationship.

    Personally I would've had Oliver and Felicity essentially analyze their situation the same way Felicity and Barry did a few seasons ago: "We looked down that road and decided against it". It happens, it's called life.

    Felicity and Oliver could've had separate romance story lines: Oliver would've spent the series atoning for his cheating ways during his playboy years against Laurel and then winning her heart once more (as he's actually supposed to, sorry Felicity fans), and Felicity could do her own thing with romance, debating if she even CAN romance men when she has to juggle her own life vs life with the team, maybe even giving up on love altogether and moving forward with a strictly professional life (that also happens sometimes, again that's life).

    But sadly no, the CW guys in all their infinite wisdom decide to try to ONCE AGAIN shove a story book romance down our throats, one that has essentially ruined the story in favor of itself.

  9. #54
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Yeah, Felicity is much better in small dosages, than being the female lead on the show. Also, Felicity is much better written in her Flash appearances than her own show.......let's face it, the writers on Arrow aren't that good. The writers for Flash are very good, for the most part.

  10. #55
    Forum Regular Aquahyde's Avatar
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    Their problem here was they let themselves get carried away. They let themselves get carried away with their favorite creation, something they created themselves that was outside of original GA cannon, Felicity. It's like she was their first born child or something and they now see fit to spoil her and baby her to her heart's content. They also let themselves get carries away with fan interaction with in a single focus group: Twitter and tumblr.
    Felicity smoak is a DC comics/Gerry Conway original creation, she will never belong to Guggeinheim and co...The

    With Supes coming into play for Supergirl now, hopefully WB will see the wisdom of allowing Hal to make an appearance in Flash or Legends (no arrow appearances, please, Last thing Green Lantern needs is for the CW's Hal to be yet another contender for Felicity (*barfs and gags*) )
    Sure why not, Im all for anything that keeps Green Arrow away from the control of blonde IT Mary Sues. Green Arrow is the star of the show and one of my top favs, I would gladly throw any incoming guest superhero under the bus, to free him .
    Last edited by Aquahyde; 07-08-2016 at 07:40 AM.

  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquahyde View Post
    Felicity smoak is a DC comics/Gerry Conway original creation, she will never belong to Guggeinheim and co...The



    Sure why not, Im all for anything that keeps Green Arrow away from the control of blonde IT Mary Sues. Green Arrow is the star of the show and one of my top favs, I would gladly throw any incoming guest superhero under the bus, to free him .
    Actually, aside from the tech stuff, there's not much resemblance to the Felicity of the comics, to my understanding. But then, in truth, there's barely a character on this show that could be considered to be true in even the slightest sense to their comic counterparts. But the point being made about Felicity was that she was developed initially as a one-off appearance and then it exploded. The writers congratulate themselves on having a 'breakaway character' and proceed to put a lot of their focus on this character once the two people keeping them on the path of at least being true to the spirit of the comics (Kreisberg and Berlanti) leave to begin working on The Flash and Supergirl (and Berlanti was developing even more projects for CBS like Blindspot). As far as most people are concerned, the Felicity Smoak on Arrow is a creation of Guggenheim and company.

  12. #57
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Good news or bad news depending on how you look at it.

    http://www.comicbookresources.com/ar...cws-dctv-shows

    John Barrowman signed a deal similar to Wentworth Miller so he is now the 2nd regular in the Berlanti-verse so he will appear on all the DCCW shows as a villain.

  13. #58
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Well, sounds like Malcolm Merlyn will become ubiquitous in the Flarrowverse. I like the actor, JB, but can't help thinking the producers have been so taken in by his charisma that they've lost objectivity about what's best for the story and made the mistake of keeping Malcolm around long past his expiration date. Now I wonder if this is going to become a problem, having him pop up on other shows just to justify keeping the charming actor around?

    Arrow's John Barrowman Now a Series Regular Across All CW/DC Shows

    http://tvline.com/2016/07/08/arrow-john-barrowman-series-regular-flash-legends-of-tomorrow/



  14. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Well, sounds like Malcolm Merlyn will become ubiquitous in the Flarrowverse. I like the actor, JB, but can't help thinking the producers have been so taken in by his charisma that they've lost objectivity about what's best for the story and made the mistake of keeping Malcolm around long past his expiration date. Now I wonder if this is going to become a problem, having him pop up on other shows just to justify keeping the charming actor around?

    Arrow's John Barrowman Now a Series Regular Across All CW/DC Shows



    http://tvline.com/2016/07/08/arrow-john-barrowman-series-regular-flash-legends-of-tomorrow/


    Hmm. Could be ok. But if they wanted to keep someone around for all CW DC shows like that, it should have been Ra's Al Ghul. Not only is he better as a true villain, but he's already established in the DC comics as a universal villain to begin with. Just offer his actor a new contract like John's and he can be the REAL Ra's again.

    As long as they don't try having Merlyn calling himself Ra's again I'll be ok with him though. Just let Merlyn be his own character and not associated with the League of Assassins anymore.

  15. #60
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    I suppose his first stop will be on Legends, so they can regrow his hand for him like they did with Snart.

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