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  1. #1
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Season 5 Spoiler Thread

    Question: Do you have any scoop about Arrow? —James
    Ausiello: If you’re wondering how Curtis will play a larger role in Season 5 — now that Echo Kellum is a series regular — but without duplicating Felicity’s efforts, Wendy Mericle laid out the difference for us. “Essentially, if she’s software, he’s hardware,” the EP explained. “As he evolves into becoming Mr. Terrific in Season 5, one of the things we’re really exploring is differentiating them by having Curtis be more like Cisco on The Flash. We want him to be a bit more hands-on, a little more about building physical tech.”
    http://tvline.com/2016/06/27/once-up...-ask-ausiello/

  2. #2
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    So this Oliver Queen is a dimwit unable to turn on a computer or make his own arrows now. What a rolemodel of a superhero. It's OK if you're totally inept, as long as you look good. Gotta love these showrunners.

    At least Hawkeye is still tech savvy enough to know what he's doing besides just shooting arrows and throwing punches.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 06-27-2016 at 12:06 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    So this Oliver Queen is a dimwit unable to turn on a computer or make his own arrows now. What a rolemodel of a superhero. It's OK if you're totally inept, as long as you look good. Gotta love these showrunners.

    At least Hawkeye is still tech savvy enough to know what he's doing besides just shooting arrows and throwing punches.
    Hey to each his/her own, but really? To me this is nitpicking on a grand scale. If news like this came about in season 2 would you feel the same way? Barry, while being a smart guy, rarely comes up with the equipment or gadgets. Nobody seems to mind though.

    Look everybody, I understand the last couple seasons have been disappointing, but I think we gotta start being objective about season 5 news and at least wait untill the seasons aired to comment on its quality.

  4. #4
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Hey to each his/her own, but really? To me this is nitpicking on a grand scale. If news like this came about in season 2 would you feel the same way? Barry, while being a smart guy, rarely comes up with the equipment or gadgets. Nobody seems to mind though.

    Look everybody, I understand the last couple seasons have been disappointing, but I think we gotta start being objective about season 5 news and at least wait untill the seasons aired to comment on its quality.
    Who is Curtis going to be making physical hardware tech for? Himself? Then I'm fine with it but aren't there enough masks already with more coming on board without Curtis? And to answer the question, yes I'd be pissed if it happened in season 2 also. Barry was never known for developing/inventing his own gear/equipment unlike Oliver, at least it was insinuated that Oliver made it himself.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 06-27-2016 at 01:13 PM.

  5. #5
    Forum Regular Arrow_47's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Hey to each his/her own, but really? To me this is nitpicking on a grand scale. If news like this came about in season 2 would you feel the same way? Barry, while being a smart guy, rarely comes up with the equipment or gadgets. Nobody seems to mind though.

    Look everybody, I understand the last couple seasons have been disappointing, but I think we gotta start being objective about season 5 news and at least wait untill the seasons aired to comment on its quality.
    While reading this I was reminded of a couple I used to know about 30 years ago. The girl wanted to throw a surprise party for this guy that she (supposedly) cared about. For the sake of this story we will say the name of the person throwing the party is Felicity and we'll call the person who is having the birthday party, Oliver. Throughout the day, Felicity makes Oliver's life miserable. Felicity pretends she doesn't remember it's his birthday, intentionally does things to upset him, does everything she can do make sure he's in a bad mood, just so she can spring a big, "Surprise....Happy Birthday...did I get you?" on him. Problem is Oliver was so upset that he couldn't even enjoy the party, despite some of his good friends being there. I normally only speak for myself, but I am 100% confident when I say I speak for many on this, even if season 5 was a good season it will objectively be soured by what MG has done the past few years.

  6. #6
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Look everybody, I understand the last couple seasons have been disappointing, but I think we gotta start being objective about season 5 news and at least wait untill the seasons aired to comment on its quality.
    Why do we have to do this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow_47 View Post
    While reading this I was reminded of a couple I used to know about 30 years ago. The girl wanted to throw a surprise party for this guy that she (supposedly) cared about. For the sake of this story we will say the name of the person throwing the party is Felicity and we'll call the person who is having the birthday party, Oliver. Throughout the day, Felicity makes Oliver's life miserable. Felicity pretends she doesn't remember it's his birthday, intentionally does things to upset him, does everything she can do make sure he's in a bad mood, just so she can spring a big, "Surprise....Happy Birthday...did I get you?" on him. Problem is Oliver was so upset that he couldn't even enjoy the party, despite some of his good friends being there. I normally only speak for myself, but I am 100% confident when I say I speak for many on this, even if season 5 was a good season it will objectively be soured by what MG has done the past few years.
    Agreed. I can't even bring myself to finish season 4, let alone watch 5. Not until I hear the news that Barry's Time Paradox fixed Black Canary's death, and somehow I doubt that'll happen (we would've heard if Kaite resigned with arrow by now). Needless to say my arrow days are done.

    Also, they are correct: Oliver, while known in the comics in public as the expert archer of the Justice League (lest everyone forget he DOES join in the comics, thanks WB AND CW for making sure that won't happen), he is quite tech heavy in his own right. They only dumbed down his intelligence in the show to the point of a sports jock because they needed their precious Felicity to be "not redundant" and actually matter.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Hey to each his/her own, but really? To me this is nitpicking on a grand scale. If news like this came about in season 2 would you feel the same way? Barry, while being a smart guy, rarely comes up with the equipment or gadgets. Nobody seems to mind though.

    Look everybody, I understand the last couple seasons have been disappointing, but I think we gotta start being objective about season 5 news and at least wait untill the seasons aired to comment on its quality.
    Comparing Barry to Oliver is irrelevant and a terrible comparison.
    Barry has never been shown to be creating his own tech, the only thing he's ever created was Oliver's mask and that's it. Oliver on the other hand has been shown making his own Arrow's in the past and had a variety of trick Arrows during S1 before he was even including anyone else in his team. Hell Oliver also had the ability to actually work computers during the early days and had enough know-how to be able to include a virus on one of his throwing darts/arrows which hacked into Hunt's bank account and take out the exact amount then automatically transfer it across to all the people who had lost money (in the exact amounts again) at Hunts hands.

  9. #9
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Why do we have to do this?

    We don't. The show has gone downhill since season 3 and nothing that took place in finale of season 4 created anything to look forward to in season 5. Flash and LOT created a lot of buzz in their season finales and almost everyone is looking forward to what will take place in the new seasons in the fall......barely no one is looking forward to Arrow which I think is justified.

  10. #10
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    As usual, I find myself agreeing with everyone.

    Yes, Arrow's track record since at least S3 would give even a casual Arrow viewer reason to be even a little skeptical that S5 will be much better in quality. And I do get this impression in some degree, esp. after the show's decision to kill BC.

    The comics fan in me still can't get over it, when you contrast this with what's going on in DC Rebirth essentially moving towards restoring this classic Oliver/Dinah partnership. The TV viewer in me is more detached from this, and while I still think they made an unfortunate call in a creative sense by killing off Laurel just when she was coming out of strong S4 second half for her character, the only one who has any real immunity on not permanently dying on this show is Oliver.

    What is sad for me is that Laurel's death may turn out similar to that of Tommy and later Moira. It will make an early impact but as the season goes on, its influence on the team, Ollie and his actions could fade. This is the fate I'd rather not have for BC, but it could play out just like this. I want the show to prove that this won't be the case, but I can't really fault anyone for their skepticism on this and on S5 in general.

    Having said that, the teases and hints we've gotten so far about S5 tell me very little about what is actually going to happen on-screen next season. The only thing concrete that I would say is likely is what we've already seen in the finale: it's a clearing of decks as a very bloated roster gets reduced to a more manageable (for the showrunners/writers) and digestible (for the viewers) roster. Say what you will about masks and more-is-merrier, I'm of the view that Ollie and GA the character work best with a smaller crew. We could nitpick about who is left standing in his smaller team (we all know why aka Olicity ), but for the purposes of this argument, my point is that Ollie -more than most of his TV cousins- shouldn't need a dugout full of bench-warming masks, lackeys etc.

    I'm actually a bit worried about the news that they intend to throw in more masks, heroes at the series ... somewhat undercutting this new direction that Ollie getting a smaller team was a good thing.

    He -like Batman- shouldn't need his own "justice league" of hangers-on to do what began as a local, personal crusade against in-town villains. I could go on about the impact of extra metas, magic and time travel on the DNA of Arrow but this post could end up being twice as long if go down that rabbit hole. All I will say at this point is Arrow had the steepest adjustment in trying to adapt to a larger DC universe, and this adjustment came at a price that Arrow is still paying

    As for Flash and LoT being better than Arrow -- in general, yes they are. On the surface.

    I would say Flash is the best of the DC Berlantiverse, but it's more of a photo finish for me because Flash has committed similar sins that Arrow has committed as well. I want to say Flash excels in all things -- but I can't. Same with LoT. Zoom could have been potentially the best villain in the entire DCTV universe, but by the end he didn't live up to this hype. Savage, for all the potential on paper to be a villain more formidable than Ra's Al Ghul, also didn't live up to this hype. Need I say more about Hawkgirl and Hawkman's meh entry into the Flarrowverse too?

    The common Achilles heel that brought them down? Yup, it was the melodrama -- a problem the entire Berlantiverse shares in varying degrees. Sure, Arrow has doubled down on it to the detriment of the series post-S3. This is not in dispute.

    But, no one is going to tell me similar crap hasn't popped up like a carnival whack-a-mole that just. won't. go. away. on Flash, LoT and SG too. Zoom/Caitlin? Savage/Kendra/Ray (love rectangle if you add Jax)? Winn/Kara/Jimmy? Either fans don't see it -- or they see it ... but don't want or choose not to admit it. Go away, cheesy melodrama, go away.

    I've got to take claims that Flash, LoT or SG are miles ahead in quality re: Arrow with a grain of salt. Maybe better than S3-4 Arrow in general, when most fans would say Arrow lost its direction. But, what if you put S1 Arrow against the S1's of Flash, LoT and SG. It would likely be a photo finish against S1 Flash, but I think S1 Arrow could take the gold vs. their S1's.

    (I could nitpick like hell about the stuff all those series have done that irked me and I've made no bones about what their in-house glitches are in their threads. It tends to revolve around writing inconsistencies, here-and-there character development and ... yes, melodrama.)

    So while I'm a little nervous that S5 -- if it is indeed Ollie's endgame season -- won't pan out in a way that honours the character, I'm also a bit nervous that the rest of the DCTV Berlantiverse will repeat similar mistakes from their own series.

    What I'm saying is that I'll be viewing Arrow and his TV cousins next season with a skeptical eye and I won't let the network, showrunners, critics, social media etc. tell me what I should expect until I see it play out with my own eyes next fall.

    I'm anticipating all the series premieres, but at the same time I'm a bit nervous about all of them. I don't think any of them have given me cause to not be worried about what they might or might not do. No one gets a pass from me on skepticism -- not Arrow, but not Barry, Rip & Co. or Kara either.

    They will all have to earn my loyalty as a viewer beyond '16-'17.

    (Looking forward to Syfy / Space's Dark Matter S2 this July, btw. Yes, you may see this as a recommendation. )

  11. #11
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    http://www.greenarrowtv.com/carly-po...rn-connection/

    Carly Pope is playing Susan Williams a reporter from Coast City.

    In the comics Susan is Hal Jordan's sister-in-law since she is married to Hal's younger brother Jim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Why do we have to do this?
    Well, for me, I try not to judge something before I've seen the final product. Subjectively speaking, of course one could argue the season will suck without having seen 1 frame of footage. Objectively though, that's extremely unfair to the show runners, especially when it seems like steps are being taken to fix the problems. Much of the season 5 news has been positive and shows me that they are trying to correct their mistakes. Last season, I believe the best episodes were directed by James Bamford, and he's directing the first to episodes of this season. To crap all over a product you havnt seen really does a disservice to the show and to yourself as a viewer. If you expect it to be bad and continually convince yourself it will be, then no matter what, the negatives will stand out. (For example, it started to happen last season with Felicity. I agree she was part of the problem, but even when she really had no influence on an episode, people found a problem with her, because they were expecting one).

    All that being said, 3 strikes and your out. If this season is a disappointment, especially after all the positive news so far, then being objective going forward will be extremely difficult.
    Last edited by 134sc; 06-30-2016 at 06:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Well, for me, I try not to judge something before I've seen the final product. Subjectively speaking, of course one could argue the season will suck without having seen 1 frame of footage. Objectively though, that's extremely unfair to the show runners, especially when it seems like steps are being taken to fix the problems. Much of the season 5 news has been positive and shows me that they are trying to correct their mistakes. Last season, I believe the best episodes were directed by James Bamford, and he's directing the first to episodes of this season. To crap all over a product you havnt seen really does a disservice to the show and to yourself as a viewer. If you expect it to be bad and continually convince yourself it will be, then no matter what, the negatives will stand out. (For example, it started to happen last season with Felicity. I agree she was part of the problem, but even when she really had no influence on an episode, people found a problem with her, because they were expecting one).

    All that being said, 3 strikes and your out. If this season is a disappointment, especially after all the positive news so far, then being objective going forward will be extremely difficult.
    Reserving judgment is a good thing to do, generally speaking. But keep in mind that there is no change in the team of writers and showrunners from last year, aside from one glaring aspect: the best Lance family writer has moved to Legends. Last year, the same team (plus the Lance writer) said loud and proud that they were listening to the fanbase and were making changes to make sure the mistakes of Season 3 wouldn't reoccur in Season 4. The premiere of Season 4 was excellent and definitely made it seem like they were keeping to that.

    By the mid-season finale, we had started slinking back towards the melodrama of Season 3. After the first few episodes back from break, during which we saw the Oliver so many had missed, we went right back to angsty melodrama and rounded it out with removing ALL potential love interests to compete with the oh-so-beloved Olicity pairing by killing off the Black Canary and retconning her sister's actual value system in order to keep Sara from returning to Star City full-time. By this last bit, I mean that the way Sara was portrayed throughout Season 1 of Legends, and especially after the "Star City 2046" episode, suggested she would return to fighting alongside Oliver and the others due to seeing what happened because she and Ray 'never came back'.

    So, you'll have to forgive those who aren't able to believe Guggenheim and his team for saying the exact same thing they did last summer. Now, me, I hope you're right. But the episodes Bamford doesn't direct will show us the general view of the season, unless they decide to give him the director's chair for the majority (unlikely since he would focus on the actual vigilante storylines and not on "EEEE! OLICITY OMG!" aspects).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    http://www.greenarrowtv.com/carly-po...rn-connection/

    Carly Pope is playing Susan Williams a reporter from Coast City.

    In the comics Susan is Hal Jordan's sister-in-law since she is married to Hal's younger brother Jim.
    Boy, for not "being allowed" to "use Hal Jordan", they sure are trying to milk as much as they can for his character's "teases"/"Easter Eggs"

    Coast City (Multiple references, in fact)
    Ferris Air
    Vanishing Test Pilot
    Ferris air
    And now, His Sister in Law

    With Supes coming into play for Supergirl now, hopefully WB will see the wisdom of allowing Hal to make an appearance in Flash or Legends (no arrow appearances, please, Last thing Green Lantern needs is for the CW's Hal to be yet another contender for Felicity (*barfs and gags*) )

  15. #15
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Well, for me, I try not to judge something before I've seen the final product. Subjectively speaking, of course one could argue the season will suck without having seen 1 frame of footage. Objectively though, that's extremely unfair to the show runners, especially when it seems like steps are being taken to fix the problems. Much of the season 5 news has been positive and shows me that they are trying to correct their mistakes. Last season, I believe the best episodes were directed by James Bamford, and he's directing the first to episodes of this season. To crap all over a product you havnt seen really does a disservice to the show and to yourself as a viewer. If you expect it to be bad and continually convince yourself it will be, then no matter what, the negatives will stand out. (For example, it started to happen last season with Felicity. I agree she was part of the problem, but even when she really had no influence on an episode, people found a problem with her, because they were expecting one).

    All that being said, 3 strikes and your out. If this season is a disappointment, especially after all the positive news so far, then being objective going forward will be extremely difficult.
    So we're supposed to give the showrunners 3 SEASONS before they strike out? That's more like giving them 60+ strikes than 3. The first two innings the showrunners were scoring and throwing a no hitter, then they swapped pitchers and suddenly nothing seems to be working for them the following two innings. How long are you going to keep that pitcher on the mound? I was highly disappointed with the season 3 premier but gave the show a shot anyway until it just wasn't worth my time anymore roughly 2/3 into the season. I think that was more than fair AND I watched a few episodes of season 4 to see if anything changed. It hadn't. I'm not wasting 3 YEARS of my life to see if they've finally learned something, especially when there's far superior entertainment to be had elsewhere.

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