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  1. #1
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Did Suicide Squad do in Arrow

    I just watched an Emergency Awesome video where Charlie suggested the WB pulling the squad, Deadshot and Waller from Arrow after season 2 (yes, some of those things took awhile to happen, but the decision happened at the end of season 2) trashed all of the existing plans for season 3. This would explain the mess of season 3, the Olicity romance without the proper build up and the whole Ra's storyline. So maybe both seasons 3 and 4 are the result of not being able to tell the story they were building towards. Instead of blaming other fans for Laurel dying, we should probably blame the movie people for putting a hit on Deadshot, Waller, Laurel and Deathstroke.

  2. #2
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Don't think Laurel's death was mandated by DC. Guggenheim would have admitted as such, as he did with Deathstroke.

    There probably where some changes, but I don't think they were that dramatic. Thanks to DC we didn't get a couple more Suicide Squad episodes, but I don't think the Squad would ever have been the main arc for season 3 or 4. As I recall, Season 2 did set up the LoA and HIVE as future storylines. So they didn't come out of nowhere, nor did they feel as plan B. IMO, Arrow's problem wasn't that they couldn't get better villains on board. It's that they had characters like Ra's Al Ghul and Damian Darhk on board and they didn't know how to write a decent storyline around them. That's criminal.

    As for Olicity, more than DC restrictions, I feel it was brought upon by a radical shift in the show's direction from Guggenheim. More than telling a hero's tale, he wanted to tell the tale of Felicity and how said hero became the right man for her. Arrow became so soap opera-ish that even Donna Smoak got a romantic storyline.

  3. #3
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Unfortunately the movie universe and "Suicide Squad" did affect storylines in "Arrow". A.R.G.U.S. playing no significant part neither in season 3, nor in season 4 has absolutely no sense, given the setting in season 2 (I half expected that the fact that they knew exactlyhow Ollie was spending his nights will play crucial part later on - it didn't).

    Deadshot was killed off solely because of the films - that was confirmed. We can also assume that Harley Quinn was pulled out and replaced with Cupid because of "Suicide Squad" (that was also confirmed in some interviews, Willa Holland said something about that if I remember correctly).

    As for Amanda Waller - I'm on the fence, and I've written about this in other topic. Killing her off also has little sense and seems rushed, but might be actually a combination of factors and not solely because of another version of Amanda existing in the film. It can be just another badly executed plot, because Waller's death had zero effect on the events - she was replaced by Lyla, who basically did everything what Waller would do in given situation. I don't know, maybe they just get rid of the actress because they are cutting on the budged or/and maybe there would be problems with her schedule and shooting the episodes of the show (there was a lot of scenes involving A.R.G.U.S. director in the second part of the season, right?).

    Season 3 and 4 show what happens when writers push characters from point A to point B without thinking how to logically take them to that place. That's why Olicity romance comes out of blue. That's why Oliver so stubbornly insist on protecting Merlyn, even when he could leave him to Ra's. That's why Quentin goes berserk in 3x18 and apparently is the very last one who learns Oliver's identity (a detective, lol ). A story, constructed like this, eventually falls apart on every single level. I think that "Flash" also contributed to the disaster the show is now - people who used to work on "Arrow" splited into two teams and the less talented part stayed in "Arrow", because the thought that "somehow we make it work". But there is no "somehow" when it comes to writing.

  4. #4
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    No, I refuse to blame WB for stuff like Ras' shipping Olicity. That's all on Guggles, far as I'm concerned.

  5. #5
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    The Deathstroke situation is the most confusing one. Guggenheim did say he was off the table earlier this season, but when did that happen? Because after season 2, it felt like it was the show's decision to not use him anymore. He was gone from the flashbacks and his present day storyline had ended. So there wasn't a lot left for him on the show, besides the odd reappearance. Manu Bennett growing disillusioned with the show probably caused some issues as well, even before DC intervened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    No, I refuse to blame WB for stuff like Ras' shipping Olicity. That's all on Guggles, far as I'm concerned.


    Exactly.

  6. #6
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    They were/are rumors of Black Canary being involved in DC movies down the line, but I still don't see any good reason why Laurel was killed off. Unless, the plan is for Earth 2 Black Siren to come in and be the true Black Canary from the comics, then I guess that makes sense to have Katie play the legit Black Canary. Still, this is a Green Arrow show and Black Canary should be in it, I don't care if anyone says otherwise because that's how I feel about

  7. #7
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    Maybe a few minor changes of not being able to use Deadshot, which is probably why they brought Andy back from the dead. However there's no way it caused Olicty, Ras mess, Laurel dying etc.

    The undeniable fact is MG and eventually WM are horrible writers, period.

    In Laurel's case, maybe I wouldn't put the blame where I do but the fact is the rapid Olicty fans on Tumbler/Twitter have been clamoring for Laurel's death for years because of who Laurel is in the comics then MG and WM, killed off Laurel in order to please them. If the Arrow showrunners didn't do it at least partially for them then MG didn't do any good by that "screw canon" post. So if there is a more story driven reason for Laurel's death it has to take a back seat just due to the heavy pandering the Arrow showrunners have done to favor the Olicty shippers. I'm not saying there isn't a story reason for Laurel dying but what they've done hasn't helped them any.

    In Deathstroke's case the Arrow showrunners royally screwed themselves over by the season 2 Slade loves Shado plot then the mess of 3x14 where Thea beat Slade Wilson, by herself.

    Oh, Olicty not having proper build up being blamed on Suicide Squad? Ha, just another example of more and lazy writing.

    Above all. Suicide Squad was a one off chance that they even got close to having it happen in Arrow but it's not the reason for any of the show's decline in well everything. Outside of Deadshot, the Suicide Squad is not found guilty of any of these charges.

  8. #8
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    So guess it's too much to hope WB might call some day and say they want Ronnie Raymond's stepmother back?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    So guess it's too much to hope WB might call some day and say they want Ronnie Raymond's stepmother back?
    I think DC would prefer to just pull a Flashpoint or Crisis event and wipe Ronnie Raymond's stepmother out of existence.

  10. #10
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    I think DC would prefer to just pull a Flashpoint or Crisis event and wipe Ronnie Raymond's stepmother out of existence.
    See I was fantasizing that maybe WB could rescue Arrow from Guggles' clutches by luring him away w/ the promise of a movie for his BELOVED offer Guggles the opportunity to start working on a new movie script starring none other than Mrs. Ed Raymond herself as a tech superheroine. Could be a win-win for all parties. Ah, well....

  11. #11
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    I think it's quite clear that WB movie executives stomped all over Arrow season 3. After repeatedly teasing Ted Kord and Kord Industries, and after building a Blue Beetle costume all of that was thrown away at the last moment. So, instead of a rivalry between Queen Consolidated and Kord Industries we got Ray taking over QC. Brandon does a good job as Ray Palmer, but he would have been perfect as Ted Kord.

  12. #12
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    I think Arrow was planning on using the squad as a secondary plotline in season 3. The show probably would have had 1 or 2 episodes with an emphasis on the squad, and the whole rescue of team Arrow from the N.P. dungeon might have been the squad and not The Flash.

    The green lightning of the Suicide Squad movie prevented the show from using characters and themes they spent a lot of time developing. I feel pulling the squad and the last minute change from Blue Beetle to The Atom left the writers scrambling to fill gaping plot holes and screen time, unfortunately the writers took the easy way out and filled the holes with typical CW relationship nonsense. In my opinion the poorly written, and poorly executed rise of Olicity has more to do with behind the scenes challenges then nameless internet trolls. Executives don't make bottom line, million dollar decisions based on tweets.

  13. #13
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    I like the Oliver and Felicity as a couple but, too much of the show has to do with their romance and not enough of the arrow fighting bad guys.

  14. #14
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    So, I just saw Suicide Squad. Its exactly what I have come to expect from the DCEU: lots of action, something somewhat resembling a plot, too many damned flashbacks intersecting, a a lack of being able to connect with most of the characters.

    Whether it was because Diggle was their 'contact' with the Squad or simply because we got to know them a bit more in those episodes, I felt more connection to the Squad on "Arrow" than the one in the film (the exception being Harley and Deadshot, the latter only because Will Smith is an excellent actor).

    THe one thing it did get over on Arrow: Amanda Waller being a bad-ass.

    So, in short: yes, WB screwed over "Arrow" big-time by doing what they did.

    And now that we know KC is going to keep being on the Flarrowverse in different forms, I think we can safely say killing Laurel wasn't mandated by DC/WB, but just Mediocre Marc and Wicked Wendy being utterly cruel to comics fans.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    So, I just saw Suicide Squad. Its exactly what I have come to expect from the DCEU: lots of action, something somewhat resembling a plot, too many damned flashbacks intersecting, a a lack of being able to connect with most of the characters.

    Whether it was because Diggle was their 'contact' with the Squad or simply because we got to know them a bit more in those episodes, I felt more connection to the Squad on "Arrow" than the one in the film (the exception being Harley and Deadshot, the latter only because Will Smith is an excellent actor).

    THe one thing it did get over on Arrow: Amanda Waller being a bad-ass.

    So, in short: yes, WB screwed over "Arrow" big-time by doing what they did.

    And now that we know KC is going to keep being on the Flarrowverse in different forms, I think we can safely say killing Laurel wasn't mandated by DC/WB, but just Mediocre Marc and Wicked Wendy being utterly cruel to comics fans.
    Somehow I'm not surprised at Suicide Squad being like the rest of the DCEU.

    Nice to see they did mange to get Amanda Waller done right.

    Agreed on the short answer, especially since we've got Superman showing up in Supergirl season 2.

    Yes just Marc and Wicked Wendy being utterly cruel to comics fans on killing off Laurel.

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