View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Great

    1 5.56%
  • 9

    2 11.11%
  • 8

    4 22.22%
  • 7

    2 11.11%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    1 5.56%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    1 5.56%
  • 2

    1 5.56%
  • 1 - I'm conflicted.

    6 33.33%
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  1. #31
    Forum Regular Sure-Oz's Avatar
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    Ratings were a .8 again...worst for a finale. The show needs changes...big time. Guggenheim has run it to the ground. Here's hoping the neg reviews and backlash and low ratings do the trick. He has no business running a green arrow show. Get Wendy mericles out as well. This show was so good prior to midseason 3

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sure-Oz View Post
    Ratings were a .8 again...worst for a finale. The show needs changes...big time. Guggenheim has run it to the ground. Here's hoping the neg reviews and backlash and low ratings do the trick. He has no business running a green arrow show. Get Wendy mericles out as well. This show was so good prior to midseason 3
    Good, on the ratings being down. I hope this changes stuff for a better season 5.

  3. #33
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Yeah, I been pretty vocal about how I felt about Laurel getting killed off the show, but in my eyes, it changed nothing on this show. I mean, I felt like Laurel could be doing so much more on this show than say someone like Thea, whose arcs keep going around in circles. All Thea does is date guys, save for Roy, who end up getting killed off and whether she is right or wrong, acts like brat when dealing with her father. Thea is as useless as Donna on this show, so perhaps her breaking away from the team for a while is a good thing.......of course, depending on how long that is another story.

  4. #34
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    Oh one thing I'm thankful is they never did the Oliver/Taiana relationship like they originally gave in descriptions.

  5. #35
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    You missed the part of my post where I said the execution was where they failed. My meaning of "on paper" = in theory aka in theory, it may have been a good idea to have Arrow face off against a villain who possesses powers beyond the team's ability to battle aka magic. On-screen, obviously they couldn't pull off what they wanted with their villain. A sin the Berlantiverse has also repeated, and more egregiously, with Zoom and Savage -- villains who began cool but were watered down in the writing by the finale.
    Savage was a bit of a disappointment to me starting off. I meant the basic idea of the character from the jump.
    I would say The Flash got off lucky. They had to do some Firestorm build up, and their own crossover was meh but this is nothing compared to having Arrow stories sidelined in the first half of S4 to service LoT's set-up. Did we see 3-4 Flash episodes essentially surrendered just to prop up LoT's launch. No -- this happened primarily on Arrow. Again, you missed the part where I actually say: 'S4 as a whole suffered from the usual Berlantiverse sins of here-and-there plot and characterization issues and the frequent defaulting to melodrama' aka flaws of Arrow's own that it alone is responsible for. I never said LoT is responsible for all of Arrow's problems, as your post is insinuating. What I did say is that LoT is responsible for gutting chunks of Arrow's S4 content in the lead-up to the crossover/LoT prologue eps. and this had an impact on S4's quality as a whole. I consider them more LoT eps. than Arrow ones, since they had little to do with Arrow itself. With this interpretation, Arrow's season 4 got "chopped" by 3-4 episodes of content. Some fans are free to believe otherwise, excuse LoT for it, I just won't share that belief

    As for the LoT-specific grievance I have re: Arrow S4, LoT will get no pass from me. It must share some responsibility for S4's flaws (Note: not all ... just in case this point was missed the first time) and we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
    It's like I said, the real problems this season had nothing to do with LOT. The show's quality as a whole suffered no real damage for the LOT setup. Maybe, to you, a problem is lack of development on the main villain's aspects, but even when the show had the time to do that it wasted it on pointless olicity drama, Felicity wheelchair nonsense and taking the time out of the season to stop everything to kill Laurel pointlessly. Have a very great day you and everyone!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  6. #36
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    And another thing, as the season went on, those HIVE ghosts became big jokes in the fight scenes. From not knowing how to shoot guns properly to doing twirls and whirls in battles, lol.

  7. #37
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    If I had my way I'd ban killing off any regulars off the show. Just killing someone is a lazy way of upping the consequences. If the show just flat out takes that off the table, they would be forced to be more creative and I think it would have been more satisfying all around. But instead they decided for whatever reason at the start of the season to kill someone in the cast.

    I'd much rather lose a character whose absence doesn't really mess up the dynamic of the show than one that would take away something big in the long run. Killing Diggle, Felicity, or Thea would have IMO taken away too much. Quentin was the one I expected but his death would have had even less of an impact on the team (while also taking away a flavor that no one else on the show replicates.) Laurel would have been very upset but the rest of the team would have only been mildly affected.

    Laurel's death wasn't so big that it will affect the dynamic of the show forever but it was big enough that it provided a lot of emotional fallout for the rest of the season. It likely won't be a big long term thing next season on Arrow but I do expect Laurel's death to strongly hit Sara over on LoT next year. So while no, I don't think Laurel's death on Arrow did much, that's likely one of the big reasons why they decided they could kill her and while killing Quentin on Arrow wouldn't have created a new storyline for Laurel to explore since they did the death of a loved one before for her, Sara's never been in that position before, so Laurel's death will create a new aspect to Sara's storyline.
    Laurel's death didn't even effect Sara enough to not have her be sad throughout the whole LOT finale. If killing off a character doesn't change anything, then there's no reason to kill the character off. It just makes it more pointless, making the death have no reason to happen. Have a very great day you and everyone!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  8. #38
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    If ARROW has an average of a .8 and 2.21 million viewers as it did for this episode, this show can go on for many, many years. THE CW seems pretty content with those type of numbers considering all the shows in their current lineup, that have worse ratings, are continually renewed.
    Last edited by 134sc; 05-26-2016 at 08:08 PM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    If ARROW has an average of a .8 and 2.21 million viewers as it did for this episode, this show can go on for many, many years. THE CW seems pretty content with those type of numbers considering all the shows in their current lineup, that have worse ratings, are continually renewed.
    The only good thing about that is the fact that if Arrow keeps going, eventually they'll change showrunners.

  10. #40
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    Hey, I enjoyed this episode for what it was. I watch this show so much differently then I used to. Now it's just a silly, crazy, ridiculous comic book show. To me it's like The Flash, Legends or even Smallville. I really hope that next season though, they can get back to seasons 1 and 2, by minimizing the craziness and making the villain have a personal connection to Oliver and hopefully doing something different then destroying the city.

    On a side note and I'm probably in the minority (like usual) I have enjoyed and appreciated Olivers journey over the course of the series.

    Season 1: Oliver is ruthless and kills without hesitation. He is very, very dark.
    Season 2: Oliver is still pretty ruthless, but will not kill unless absolutely necessary. He is fighting his darkness, but is on the path to the light
    Season 3: Oliver will not kill unless absolutely necessary and wants to stop torturing (interogating) people. The lightness is there at the start, but recedes as the season goes on. At the end he has fully embraced the light and has let it back in
    Season 4: Oliver does not torture anymore and will not kill unless absolutely necessary. The light is strong within him, but the darkness remains. He realizes that both sides of him may always be there but can be beneficial in his crusade.

    If I had to guess season 5 will explore the dual sides of Oliver, but as the season goes on the light within him will over power the dark and thus his transition from The Hood to the Green Arrow will be complete. Any seasons beyond 5 will probably be full on Green Arrow. Also, doing it this way will provide great contrast to the flashbacks which will have Oliver on the cusp of becoming the Hood, while in present day he is literally doing the exact opposite.
    Last edited by 134sc; 05-26-2016 at 08:45 PM.

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Hey, I enjoyed this episode for what it was. I watch this show so much differently then I used to. Now it's just a silly, crazy, ridiculous comic book show. To me it's like The Flash, Legends or even Smallville. I really hope that next season though, they can get back to seasons 1 and 2, by minimizing the craziness and making the villain have a personal connection to Oliver and hopefully doing something different then destroying the city.

    On a side note and I'm probably in the minority (like usual) I have enjoyed and appreciated Olivers journey over the course of the series.

    Season 1: Oliver is ruthless and kills without hesitation. He is very, very dark.
    Season 2: Oliver is still pretty ruthless, but will not kill unless absolutely necessary. He is fighting his darkness, but is on the path to the light
    Season 3: Oliver will not kill unless absolutely necessary and wants to stop torturing (interogating) people. The lightness is there at the start, but recedes as the season goes on. At the end he has fully embraced the light and has let it back in
    Season 4: Oliver does not torture anymore and will not kill unless absolutely necessary. The light is strong within him, but the darkness remains. He realizes that both sides of him may always be there but can be beneficial in his crusade.

    If I had to guess season 5 will explore the dual sides of Oliver, but as the season goes on the light within him will over power the dark and thus his transition from The Hood to the Green Arrow will be complete. Any seasons beyond 5 will probably be full on Green Arrow. Also, doing it this way will provide great contrast to the flashbacks which will have Oliver on the cusp of becoming the Hood, while in present day he is literally doing the exact opposite.
    Possibly. Though one of the things about GA is in the comics he will kill when needed and I think from how they where setting stuff up in this week's episode, I think Oliver will find the balance between killing only guys like Darhk and not killing a normal street thug.

    Now yes as time goes on there will be a for sure spilt between present day GA (even if just kill when needed) and the past which like you said is becoming The Hood.

  12. #42
    Forum Regular Sure-Oz's Avatar
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    I saw on another board that Roy Harper may be back in some eps next season...I'd def like that and hope that's true. Have to have someone that gives an s about the source material.

  13. #43
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 134sc View Post
    Hey, I enjoyed this episode for what it was. I watch this show so much differently then I used to. Now it's just a silly, crazy, ridiculous comic book show. To me it's like The Flash, Legends or even Smallville. I really hope that next season though, they can get back to seasons 1 and 2, by minimizing the craziness and making the villain have a personal connection to Oliver and hopefully doing something different then destroying the city.
    ^This. I'll probably enjoy Arrow more next season if I do watch it the way I saw SV in its later seasons aka just taking it in as a comic book romp as-is, warts 'n all. Arrow began as more than this, had potential to be edgier after S1, but oh well. It has maybe 1 or 2 seasons to go (S5-6). Beyond that it will surely need new showrunners, new direction, new writers to prolong its run.

    On a side note and I'm probably in the minority (like usual) I have enjoyed and appreciated Olivers journey over the course of the series.

    Season 1: Oliver is ruthless and kills without hesitation. He is very, very dark.
    Season 2: Oliver is still pretty ruthless, but will not kill unless absolutely necessary. He is fighting his darkness, but is on the path to the light
    Season 3: Oliver will not kill unless absolutely necessary and wants to stop torturing (interogating) people. The lightness is there at the start, but recedes as the season goes on. At the end he has fully embraced the light and has let it back in
    Season 4: Oliver does not torture anymore and will not kill unless absolutely necessary. The light is strong within him, but the darkness remains. He realizes that both sides of him may always be there but can be beneficial in his crusade.

    If I had to guess season 5 will explore the dual sides of Oliver, but as the season goes on the light within him will over power the dark and thus his transition from The Hood to the Green Arrow will be complete. Any seasons beyond 5 will probably be full on Green Arrow. Also, doing it this way will provide great contrast to the flashbacks which will have Oliver on the cusp of becoming the Hood, while in present day he is literally doing the exact opposite.
    ^This. I pretty much agree with it all.

    Ollie's journey is what I signed up to watch, and it's the alpha story arc that I pay attention to. As long as the show is called Arrow, it's the story that should always matter most.

    The flashbacks are going to be pretty dark, it's unavoidable if they are ending with S1 Hood as its endgame and this will contrast with the positive things Ollie accomplishes as the mayor. His GA identity will mirror both light and dark sides of him.

  14. #44
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Good points. However, regarding your post about Quentin above: I'm pretty sure he was told that his suspension was no longer a suspension, but permanent. He said something like when he was told that, he found he didn't mind it as much despite having only ever wanted to be a cop all his life. I'd have to re-watch that scene to be sure, though.
    I was hazy about this too, but I think you're right: he alluded that the suspension had become essentially permanent. This is what was meant by no longer temporary, he got the axe -- not that he was reinstated. At least that is what the recaps that are now online have been saying.

    And he did incriminate himself at the trial earlier in the season, for the greater good etc. but he still implicated himself with his Darhk association. I can understand why the SCPD would opt to terminate his service -- they can't have a police captain openly acknowledging collusion with a criminal of Darhk's high profile and still keep him on the force, no matter what the circumstances. It would be a political, face-saving move.

    If we enter the speculation arena, it's possible that the police union opted not to contest the police board's decision to end Quentin's service. They could have fought it, but it would be an uphill battle with odds against him. Maybe they cut him a deal: the force will let him out clean, no demotion or further reprimands, let him keep his pension ... if he keeps mum about what he did while serving as Darhk's "mole". The stuff he admitted at trial is on public record, but maybe his exit from SCPD also means he agrees not to blab about it in a tell-all book or press interviews etc. Worst case scenario: he was terminated with just cause re: Darhk schemes, in addition to reprimand, maybe demotion of rank, dishonourable discharge and even loss of his pension.

    Maybe they'll fill in the details in S5, but these are probably the explanations I'd run with if we hear nothing more about it.

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