View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Lost in the Awesome

    2 16.67%
  • 9

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  • 8

    2 16.67%
  • 7

    2 16.67%
  • 6

    1 8.33%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

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  • 3

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  • 2

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  • 1 - Lost in This Mess

    4 33.33%
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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by costas22 View Post
    Despite my positive review, I'm glad to see ratings are down. If the season finale ends with the lowest ratings of the series, I think it will most definitely cause a stir at the CW, maybe enough to get Guggenheim canned and someone new brought in as the showrunner Mericle's being Guggenheim's yes-woman might preclude her from getting the chance.

  2. #17
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    Would love to say this was a good ep because it had a lot of action, but action alone doesn't make it good.

    Darhk toying with Arrow and Spartan and letting them live now to kill them later is classic "rookie villain mistake number one." Poor storytelling for a character who is no rookie villain.

    Trying to show a compassionate side to Ruve' was lost on me. She is planning on killing millions of people, many of whom are children, and somehow in her moment of death she wants Oliver to keep her daughter safe. It would have been one thing to show her as delusional and honestly believing that what she was doing was right, but that is not how they wrote the character. Just more poor storytelling.

    Didn't have much of a problem with Thea breaking the effects of the yellow pills. Easy to justify that the Lazarus Pit had some lasting side effects that would give her the ability to overcome that. While she is my least favorite character, she was okay in this ep.

    Love how they portrayed Felicity as a hypocrite (keeping a secret from her mom, but getting on Oliver's case for keeping secrets from her) and probably didn't even realize they were doing it. Though in their (MG and the writers) warped thinking, they would say keeping a secret about working with the Arrow (and who the Arrow is) doesn't compare to keeping a secret about an illegitimate son. To that I say, justification is the hypocrite's way of convincing themselves that they are right and everyone else is wrong.

    They blew a chance to bring back Goth Felicity while she was going toe-to-toe with Cooper. Showing that side of her whenever she is in "master hacker" mode would be a good addition to the show.

    Once again, the inconsistency in Oliver's ability to fight had me laughing. "Oh, he gets to be a good fighter and expert archer this week...awesome!"

    Here's hoping next week makes Season 5 worth looking forward to!

  3. #18
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    I gave it a 7. It wasn't terrible but there wasn't a lot that excited me. Mostly a transitional episode setting up the finale.

    I was disappointed with the tone but I also realize that this episode and the prior week's episode would have been pretty much written around the same time by different writers and while of course the writers of 4-22 would have been told that the team isn't able to stop one bomb from going off, i can believe that they wouldn't have realized how big of an emotional beat it would play out as for Felicity. I mean the line was just a brief question and Lyla, the good soldier redirecting to the positive. EBR and the director chose to make that a more haunting moment, as it should have been IMO, but I can believe the writers would have thought their brief acknowledgement followed by everyone deciding now wasn't the time to think about that was enough.

    And I would have been perfectly fine with putting on a front, but there should have been cracks, moments when it crept back in. It was a mistake both by the writers and by the director of 4-22 who didn't tone down the humor and I get that goes against what the director normally wants to do since normally they try to make every funny moment as funny as possible but yeah, it was a show misstep. A missed chance to make the episode more meaningful.

    Instead we had Oliver and Diggle running around trying to save Thea when really she was the one person on the team that was safe. I can get past that since how would Oliver know until he found her, but I REALLY hated that Oliver saw the undrugged followers of DD as innocent. I don't think so. Every willing person in that dome was complicit in the deaths of everyone in Havenrock. Sure, don't leave them to die as the really poorly constructed dome caves in, but should any one of those cold hearted monsters just be allowed to walk free?

    So life in Star City sucks, you're answer is to nuke the world????!!! WTF?! And now Oliver feels bad about it. Insert major eye roll.

    Hate that Anahrky is presented as so good that he can hold off three at a time but I'm resigned to it. They've only made him more skilled with each of his appearances. I like his creepy "mommy" thing with Thea to put up with it I guess.

    Now for the stuff in the loft.

    I don't love how split up the episode was. It was too separate and i think that was a detriment. Now, a lot of people I know loved the whole thing and from the reviews I saw, while there were people in the middle like me, many seemed to ether love it or hate it.

    If you take the tonal issue out, the scenes in the loft worked well. Curtis was very funny and his interjections made Noah and Donna's bickering entertaining. I've always figured that there was more to the story of Noah leaving so wasn't surprised that Donna made that happen. She is VERY protective of her daughter and I won't hold it against her for making that choice for her daughter when she was seven. But she made a mistake in not explaining the whole truth to Felicity when she was older since her father's abandonment of her was still an issue and while he still never tried to contact her after he left, it helps a lot that he had to be pushed to leave.

    That was a sweet moment, when she was able to be happy for a second that it turned out that her father hadn't just walked out for no reason. (It was also hilarious that Curtis used the "helped save the world" card to get gossip, lol.) I also greatly appreciated that Felicity didn't blow up at her mother for trying to protect her as a child. Noah Kutler, while helpful in this case, is still a bad man that when we first met him, gleefully expected his actions would result in thousands of deaths. It was nice that they didn't create false drama and have her blow up over something that was done in her best interests. Also, she didn't say she was perfectly fine with what Donna did, she promised that Donna wasn't going to lose her over this secret.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    I know these are 2 different things, but I found it funny how Felicity got to mad and angry at Oliver for his lies about William, yet, she was so quickly to forgive her mother for her lie about Noah. Yeah, Noah is a criminal, but this is the inconsistent writing for Felicity that I have taken notice of. This isn't to bash Felicity, but just pointing a small thing out. Also, I didn't like Donna telling Noah to leave at the end. People change and I felt like maybe Noah deserved another chance to be Felicity's father, but Donna pretty much slapped that chance away. I hate Donna's character and she's pretty much of no use on this show.
    As you pointed out, Donna lying to protect Felicity when she was a child is very different than Oliver lying to his fiancÚ about his secret child. It needs to be remembered that it was never just the lie Oliver told, it was that he was cutting her out of his life, a life they were supposed to equally share, and going it alone and that he was still doing it, that when there were hard choices, she wasn't being included or even being allowed to know what choice he needed to ponder. It made a mockery of their engagement.

    Felicity doesn't currently know that her mom again pushed Noah to leave and I can see her having words with her mom over something like that since she's no longer a little girl and she does NOT like it when other people make decisions made for her. But I can also understand why maybe she wouldn't since right now the stakes are so high and also it's Donna and speaking from experience, you know when you mom means well and you know when it's not worth making a stink over something that is very case specific. It's not like Noah had to listen to Donna and it's not like Felicity had decided that she did want a relationship. I think if it ever comes up again, she will say something and I'm sure it will bother her but I doubt she will be furious because well, her mom is her mom.

    If Oliver pulled something like that or anyone else (running off her dad) she's going to bring down the house because they've never changed her diapers. The relationship dynamic is completely different. She's supposed to be an equal to a partner or a friend. She should be an equal at this stage with a parent but in somethings, it's very hard for a parent to see it that way no matter how much they respect and love their kids. Not saying it's right, just saying it's different.

    The hacking scenes are what I expect to see on TV. I know it's crap compared to reality but I'm fortunate not to know enough about Hacking to care and it met the standard that is considered normal on TV. TV gets soo much wrong and for people who are specialists in well, anything, it's maddening like lawyers watching legal stuff or doctors observing hospital scenes, or lowly workers at local newspapers that know that the head of editorial is not actually in charge of the paper despite what every movie or television show has ever shown.

    I enjoyed the interaction between the three hackers and while Cooper could have been any faceless minion, I enjoyed the world building the show did by bringing him back.

    Over all, I didn't love the episode but I have found an awful lot to discuss about it and so that has upped my enjoyment.

    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Despite my positive review, I'm glad to see ratings are down. If the season finale ends with the lowest ratings of the series, I think it will most definitely cause a stir at the CW, maybe enough to get Guggenheim canned and someone new brought in as the showrunner Mericle's being Guggenheim's yes-woman might preclude her from getting the chance.
    I think if anything the ratings are going to prompt the network to rethink airing the show this late in the spring. It got preempted in Chicago cause of the basketball playoffs but I'm sure they also lost live viewers to the games in the markets that didn't have to preempt the show. On top of that, Wednesday was the finale of Survivor. The CW should tweak their scheduling (we so don't need as many or as long of hiatuses in the spring) but I'm sure they know exactly why the ratings were as they were this week.

    Fortunately for the CW, ratings really don't mean much since they make their money other ways. Also nobody could watch next week and oh well, the show's already renewed for next season. Pretty much next season nobody watching would have to happen all next season before Arrow would even be in danger on not being renewed after that.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 05-20-2016 at 04:56 PM.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    The CW should tweak their scheduling (we so don't need as many or as long of hiatuses in the spring) but I'm sure they know exactly why the ratings were as they were this week.
    Agreed, I wouldn't mind having less, long hiatuses since it's like the show gets started again to go on break two weeks later.

    Oh I'm sure the CW knows exactly why because people have finally got fed up with Gughiem's and Mericle's crap of pandering to Olicty and the poor soap opera stuff, that they are dropping the show. However since you will probably disagree with me, let's agree to disagree, like usual. Since I'm not Dragenspear and I don't feel like getting into pointless augments with you.

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Agreed, I wouldn't mind having less, long hiatuses since it's like the show gets started again to go on break two weeks later.

    Oh I'm sure the CW knows exactly why because people have finally got fed up with Gughiem's and Mericle's crap of pandering to Olicty and the poor soap opera stuff, that they are dropping the show. However since you will probably disagree with me, let's agree to disagree, like usual. Since I'm not Dragenspear and I don't feel like getting into pointless augments with you.
    It's ratings. There is no way to prove it one way or the other. I don't even try, I just provide context to try and balance things out.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    As you pointed out, Donna lying to protect Felicity when she was a child is very different than Oliver lying to his fiancÚ about his secret child. It needs to be remembered that it was never just the lie Oliver told, it was that he was cutting her out of his life, a life they were supposed to equally share, and going it alone and that he was still doing it, that when there were hard choices, she wasn't being included or even being allowed to know what choice he needed to ponder. It made a mockery of their engagement.
    ^This^

    I'm not even a Felcity fan per se or an Olicity shipper, but I was able to see that right away. I hated that people complained about Felcity in that moment and called her selfish etc. She was very much in character and acted accordingly. Just as in my opinion Oliver did nothing wrong as well. Sometimes everybody involved in a situation does the right thing and bad results still come of it. This is exactly what happened in that scenario.

    Now did this plot need to happen on ARROW? Probably not. But I can't say it was bad or inconsistant writing, just the opposite actually.

  7. #22
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    I speak only for me, but I refuse to give MG and the writers a pass on this issue. The character of Felicity just oozes hypocrisy, and I don't believe for a second the writers believe she is being a hypocrite. Felicity has been written in a way that portrays her as morally superior to everyone she's encountered on the show. She is smug, petty, and undeniably selfish. Vengeance is wrong, and Oliver should not kill anyone...unless Felicity says to, "kill the son of a #$%@", then all of a sudden it's okay. Only she gets to determine what secrets can be kept, and which ones can be shared. She loves Oliver, unless she loves Ray, unless she'd rather hook up with Barry...they're all interchangeable with her so it really doesn't matter. I think many Arrow fans see how the writers have elevated her character above Oliver, and the scrutiny (and condemnation) of everything she does will be magnified ten-fold. But none of that scrutiny or condemnation changes the fact that she is in fact very selfish and a hypocrite.

  8. #23
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Arrow_47;8160805]I speak only for me, but I refuse to give MG and the writers a pass on this issue.
    Maybe you phrased this in a way you didn't mean but I don't believe I am giving MG and the writers a pass on how they write Felicity. Every instance that I can remember that Felicity has been accused of having a double standard or contradicting herself has been either an over simplification or just inaccurate.

    I'm not going to debate on if you feel she comes off as morally superior or the rest, I disagree, but that's about perception; I am going to point out (again) that Felicity has always had a very grey outlook toward Oliver killing. She accepted that sometimes it was necessary. The scene everyone falls back on was when she objected to a specific set of circumstances because he was a single father with a young son and she was still working out how casually or not the Hood killed.

    When she brought Oliver back from the island, she pretty much viewed it as a cost of doing what they did and it was only when OLIVER so strongly objected to continuing in that path that she was ready to back up his no kill rule and yes, was upset when he had to break it for her, not because she was so strongly against killing, but because he was so strongly against being that person anymore.

    Her actions have always reflected the same nuanced, but consistent stance that sometimes killing is necessary and she accepts that. She personally hasn't had to kill and Oliver having tried to spare Sara that, I'm sure would also like to spare Felicity that burden but she's always been portrayed as flexible on killing done by the team.

    I'm not passing judgement on if her insistence to Oliver that he kill DD is right or not, but it is fully in keeping with how she's always acted.

    It's the same with lying. She's always had a nuanced view of it. But she's never had a nuanced view of a romantic partner lying to her while keeping her out of his life.



    She loves Oliver, unless she loves Ray, unless she'd rather hook up with Barry...they're all interchangeable with her so it really doesn't matter.
    I was going to address this but good grief, seriously?
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 05-22-2016 at 08:58 AM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Despite my positive review, I'm glad to see ratings are down. If the season finale ends with the lowest ratings of the series, I think it will most definitely cause a stir at the CW, maybe enough to get Guggenheim canned and someone new brought in as the showrunner Mericle's being Guggenheim's yes-woman might preclude her from getting the chance.
    The rating for the season three finale was 1.0/2.81 million viewers. In order for the season four finale to match those figures, the show has to gain some 900.000 viewers, or show 0.2 rise in the demo. Given the steady downward trend in the last five episodes, that might be somewhat utopian:

    http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ar...ratings-38484/

    So, whichever way you look at this, this season didn't perform as well as last season. That is also why I think the common oliciter idea that ratings would have been much better if Olicity had stayed together this season doesn't hold water. Oliver and Felicity were not together for the most part of season three, and the season three ratings were still considerably better. For example, episodes 3X10-3X15 had very good ratings, from 2.671 to 3.07, and demos around 1.0 and over. So, although season three was also panned by the fandom, it did better as far as viewer numbers and demos are concerned.

    The season two low ratings are often brought up in ratings' discussions, especially by fans who want to defend the show's current direction. The difference is that season two is generally regarded as the best season by the majority of the fandom (at least that's my impression!), while season four has not been well received at all (at least not by non-shipper viewers!). So. although both seasons had low ratings for many eps, there was not the same sense of general dissatisfaction in season two. This does not bode well for season five, since many of the viewers/fans who are now dissatisfied might just drop the show next season, and switch to watching some other series during the "Arrow" time slot. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens after the summer hiatus.
    Last edited by evaba; 05-22-2016 at 02:08 PM.

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    The rating for the season three finale was 1.0/2.81 million viewers. In order for the season four finale to match those figures, the show has to gain some 900.000 viewers, or show 0.2 rise in the demo. Given the steady downward trend in the last five episodes, that might be somewhat utopian:

    http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ar...ratings-38484/

    So, whichever way you look at this, this season didn't perform as well as last season. That is also why I think the common oliciter idea that ratings would have been much better if Olicity had stayed together this season doesn't hold water. Oliver and Felicity were not together for the most part of season three, and the season three ratings were still considerably better. For example, episodes 3X10-3X15 had very good ratings, from 2.671 to 3.07, and demos around 1.0 and over. So, although season three was also panned by the fandom, it did better as far as viewer numbers and demos are concerned.

    The season two low ratings are often brought up in ratings' discussions, especially by fans who want to defend the show's current direction. The difference is that season two is generally regarded as the best season by the majority of the fandom (at least that's my impression!), while season four has not been well received at all (at least not by non-shipper viewers!). So. although both seasons had low ratings for many eps, there was not the same sense of general dissatisfaction in season two. This does not bode well for season five, since many of the viewers/fans who are now dissatisfied might just drop the show next season, and switch to watching some other series during the "Arrow" time slot. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens after the summer hiatus.
    The funny thing is I predicted that the Turtles trailer was just a ratings grab and that the ratings would fall again with the next episode. Oliciter fans cried foul. Now they're licking their wounds. (This was on FB, BTW.)

    The reason I knew the trailer was a ratings grab is that kind of thing is usually saved for the final week before a movie comes out, not almost a month in advance. I don't doubt that they decided to put one on during an Arrow episode, in fact I'm certain that the film studio wanted to do that. But I doubt that they wanted it to be a month in advance as opposed to the week before. Hype builds much faster, and burns slower, if there's not enough time left for it to diminish (which it does faster with films than with television, I've found).

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
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    Maybe you phrased this in a way you didn't mean but I don't believe I am giving MG and the writers a pass on how they write Felicity. Every instance that I can remember that Felicity has been accused of having a double standard or contradicting herself has been either an over simplification or just inaccurate.

    I'm not going to debate on if you feel she comes off as morally superior or the rest, I disagree, but that's about perception; I am going to point out (again) that Felicity has always had a very grey outlook toward Oliver killing. She accepted that sometimes it was necessary. The scene everyone falls back on was when she objected to a specific set of circumstances because he was a single father with a young son and she was still working out how casually or not the Hood killed.

    When she brought Oliver back from the island, she pretty much viewed it as a cost of doing what they did and it was only when OLIVER so strongly objected to continuing in that path that she was ready to back up his no kill rule and yes, was upset when he had to break it for her, not because she was so strongly against killing, but because he was so strongly against being that person anymore.

    Her actions have always reflected the same nuanced, but consistent stance that sometimes killing is necessary and she accepts that. She personally hasn't had to kill and Oliver having tried to spare Sara that, I'm sure would also like to spare Felicity that burden but she's always been portrayed as flexible on killing done by the team.

    I'm not passing judgement on if her insistence to Oliver that he kill DD is right or not, but it is fully in keeping with how she's always acted.

    It's the same with lying. She's always had a nuanced view of it. But she's never had a nuanced view of a romantic partner lying to her while keeping her out of his life.




    I was going to address this but good grief, seriously?
    I wasn't talking about any posters on this board, just MG and the writers, so I guess I did phrase it in a way I didn't mean. When I say I speak only for me, I simply mean everyone has their own reasons (and opinions) for feeling as they do about the show. As I've said to you in the past, I enjoy your posts. I don't agree with your position, but still enjoy reading your take.

    I will say this...some things are opinion, and some things are fact. With regards to the character of Felicity, she is as I described above. Her actions support my claim. She wants Oliver to act a certain way towards her. If he doesn't, she's out the door. A great person once said, "Love covers a multitude of transgressions." That is to say, when you love somebody, you do not hold their faults against them...you continue to love them in spite of those faults, and work together to overcome them. Felicity has never shown herself to understand what Oliver went through on the island, and the demons he is having to struggle with (including his playboy lifestyle prior to the island). He had to watch his father kill himself so Oliver could live. He endured torture and death of close friends on the island. He saw his mother murdered by Deathstroke. He agonized over Sara's and Thea's deaths. After all of this, he makes a decision to keep William a secret because that is the only way he could have a relationship with him. Caught between a rock and a hard place, he made the wrong decision. But love would have understood, and the relationship would have been made stronger as they overcame the mistake together.

    There is so much more that could be said about this, but I'm convinced that in this day and age the meaning of love has adopted a whole new definition. I know it is a TV show, but I guess I was hoping to see that unconditional love and true romance still existed in the creativity of the writers. Nope, they rather kill off main characters because killing is so much more fun for fans to watch.

    Keep posting, and I'll keep reading!

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    The rating for the season three finale was 1.0/2.81 million viewers. In order for the season four finale to match those figures, the show has to gain some 900.000 viewers, or show 0.2 rise in the demo. Given the steady downward trend in the last five episodes, that might be somewhat utopian:

    http://tvseriesfinale.com/tv-show/ar...ratings-38484/

    So, whichever way you look at this, this season didn't perform as well as last season. That is also why I think the common oliciter idea that ratings would have been much better if Olicity had stayed together this season doesn't hold water. Oliver and Felicity were not together for the most part of season three, and the season three ratings were still considerably better. For example, episodes 3X10-3X15 had very good ratings, from 2.671 to 3.07, and demos around 1.0 and over. So, although season three was also panned by the fandom, it did better as far as viewer numbers and demos are concerned.

    The season two low ratings are often brought up in ratings' discussions, especially by fans who want to defend the show's current direction. The difference is that season two is generally regarded as the best season by the majority of the fandom (at least that's my impression!), while season four has not been well received at all (at least not by non-shipper viewers!). So. although both seasons had low ratings for many eps, there was not the same sense of general dissatisfaction in season two. This does not bode well for season five, since many of the viewers/fans who are now dissatisfied might just drop the show next season, and switch to watching some other series during the "Arrow" time slot. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens after the summer hiatus.
    The reason people so often have been referring back to season 2 is because that season was unaffected by the temporary ratings bump after the crossover episodes in season three. It's not a guess, the number are crystal clear that after the crossover a bunch of the Flash audience stuck around. For a while. But most of those extra eyeballs didn't stick around so season three is the aberration, not the norm.

  13. #28
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    Arrow_47;8160870]

    I will say this...some things are opinion, and some things are fact. With regards to the character of Felicity, she is as I described above. Her actions support my claim. She wants Oliver to act a certain way towards her. If he doesn't, she's out the door. A great person once said, "Love covers a multitude of transgressions." That is to say, when you love somebody, you do not hold their faults against them...you continue to love them in spite of those faults, and work together to overcome them.
    Loving him and forgiving his faults on a multitude of things doesn't mean she has to marry a man who hasn't given any indication that he can change.

    After all of this, he makes a decision to keep William a secret because that is the only way he could have a relationship with him. Caught between a rock and a hard place, he made the wrong decision. But love would have understood, and the relationship would have been made stronger as they overcame the mistake together.
    It remains a fallacy that keeping William a secret from Felicity was his only option if he wanted a relationship with William - that's simply not true since unless Samantha was planning on placing a body cam on Oliver 24/7 she would never know one way or the other about Felicity just like she didn't know that Barry, Thea and Malcolm knew about William. But lets set all that aside. This wasn't one mistake, it was a revelation of a continued pattern of behavior that was a deal breaker.


    Felicity thought he was ready for marriage only to find out he wasn't. And she found out in a way that destroyed the trust between them. The foolish action would be to blindly go forward and pretend nothing was wrong or hope that without anything changing, Oliver would simply change this time. Why should he when not changing had always been without consequence before? She's always forgiven him before. Pushing her away, turning to Merlyn, letting them think they were going to die, planning on killing himself. She thought he was past shutting her out and she finds out in a big way not only is he still falling back on old habits but that he even in the midst of dealing with the fallout of his current actions, he was just continuing to do the same thing.

    In the same place you got the quote about love covering a multitude of sins, there is a section that talks about forgiveness being offered to those who repent aka those that regret their actions, but it doesn't stop there. True repentance includes not falling back on the same actions and Felicity had a one two punch of proof that he despite having told her he'd been wrong not to tell her, he was STILL doing the same exclusionary behavior.

    Would it have been nice if they could work through it without breaking up? Sure, lovely, but this isn't an issue that could be solved with Felicity and Oliver going to couples counseling. The instinct to go it alone is Oliver's burden. No one can carry it for him. He is the only one that can change and it's not about understanding why it's happening, though she clearly does understand it has a lot to do with his trauma since she specifically brought up the island. If she understood him less she might have been able to brush it off as an isolated incident.

    Oliver has changed and improved and made heathier choices about his life and in his relationships but he's not there yet. The idea that Felicity is required because she loves him to put herself in a situation that she is certain is going to result in him hurting her again and again is absurd. And that repeated hurt would have destroyed the love that remained. As it was Felicity didn't trust Oliver and had no reason to trust he could change. So she removed herself from the equation.

    Neither Oliver or Felicity wanted to break up and perhaps if Felicity hadn't had the life experiences she'd had she might have been able to take that risk that she's already taken multiple times once again, but that was before they were weeks away from being married. Felicity does know what she needs and what she can accept and Oliver as he currently was, no matter how much it broke her heart, wasn't someone she could be with.

    There seems to be this idea that if she loved him, she would stick around and wait for him to get his act together, but this was a deal breaker for Felicity. She can't be with him UNTIL he changes or sees reason to believe he has or can. And she's mature enough to know that might never happen. So she broke it off. She's can't give all of herself if she doesn't know Oliver is going to do the same and if he can't, as his actions seemed to prove, she was brave enough to try and end the cycle of hurt.


    There is so much more that could be said about this, but I'm convinced that in this day and age the meaning of love has adopted a whole new definition. I know it is a TV show, but I guess I was hoping to see that unconditional love and true romance still existed in the creativity of the writers.
    It's funny, you and I aren't that far apart in this opinion but the place where the show yanked away the unconditional love and true romance for me was when Oliver chose to lie to Felicity instead of lie to the woman who'd kept his son from him all his life. I honestly don't think the Oliver they'd written would have done that. It was out of character at this point but the show insisted on making it his character and it wasn't something Felicity could live with because it spoke to the foundation of their whole future together. Love alone couldn't fix this. Love was never the problem.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    The reason people so often have been referring back to season 2 is because that season was unaffected by the temporary ratings bump after the crossover episodes in season three. It's not a guess, the number are crystal clear that after the crossover a bunch of the Flash audience stuck around. For a while. But most of those extra eyeballs didn't stick around so season three is the aberration, not the norm.
    Actually, seeing as it happened again this season, and will probably happen again next season, the ratings for Season 2 would be the aberration seeing as it was the last season to not have crossover viewers.

    The difference between the Season 2 ratings and the current ones, or even the Season 3 and Season 4 ratings, is that there was a lot more fluctuation in Season 2 and Season 3 as far as viewers go, and viewership does affect ratings, however minutely it might seem. While Season 3 didn't broach the 3 million mark in viewers, it did remain with mostly above 2.50 viewers. This season started with that, but has practically had every other episode lost a minimum of .20 viewers (200K) or gain the same amount with the following episode. There was a severe decline once the leaks about the grave came out, but enough viewers stuck around. We then had the one episode after the funeral episode that dipped close to 2.0 with 2.07. The following week, they had the Turtles trailer, which I predicted would raise viewership more from Turtles fans and would then drop again this past week, which it did with 2.14 viewers for the episode with the trailer, and 1.94 (a .30 decline in viewership which affected the rating itself) for the latest one.

    Now, this week may end up having more, but I don't think it'll reach the season high or even match the premiere. Considering the new BC was not well-received and the paps leaked her return in this episode, I actually would be surprised if there wasn't a further decline.

  15. #30
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    Actually, seeing as it happened again this season, and will probably happen again next season, the ratings for Season 2 would be the aberration seeing as it was the last season to not have crossover viewers.
    Only for that episode. The numbers were back to normal by the next one. But in season three they held onto the viewers 'til late mid season. That thought didn't happen this year so hence the comparison to season two's numbers.


    There was a severe decline once the leaks about the grave came out, but enough viewers stuck around
    This is why trying to explain the ratings is fruitless since what you blame on leaks about BC dying, I can point to as around the same time when Oliver and Felicity broke up. After all, the drop in viewers between 4-15 and 4-16 was the single biggest drop in viewership for the season.

    The following week, they had the Turtles trailer, which I predicted would raise viewership more from Turtles fans and would then drop again this past week, which it did with 2.14 viewers for the episode with the trailer, and 1.94 (a .30 decline in viewership which affected the rating itself) for the latest one.
    Let's just say I sincerely doubt there are very many hard core TMNT fans with Nielsen boxes. I sincerely doubt there are that many hard core TMNT fans period, let alone so many as to provide a ratings bump on some TV show they don't normally watch just to see a trailer that the second it airs would start popping up on line.

    That explanation also completely ignores the fact that the third largest viewing market (Chicago) was preempted for 4-22.


    FTY, we don't know who the returning BC is supposed to be. It wasn't the actress that played baby Canary, just the stunt woman and the outfit was covered up.

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