View Poll Results: What should the smallville writers done?

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  • Not force any ships on us, let the fans ship on their own.

    4 50.00%
  • They should run with canon ships only.

    2 25.00%
  • They should had gone with Clana all the way!

    1 12.50%
  • Clois should be the only ship, and should had been treated better.

    1 12.50%
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  1. #16
    avi by Keiko Neverending Story's Avatar
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    I love Chloe/Oliver and I can't stand Olicity. The two ships are really different IMO.

    I love Chlollie on SV and and I like Diggle/Lyla on Arrow. And that's all. The other ships on DCTV don't really register on my radar.

  2. #17
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Even Lex, though he was much better crafted (and MR largely slayed it in his role), got stuck in more shipping than was healthy. His S7 pursuit of Kara's secret was also in a sense another form of last-minute shipping. Lex talking about "Her soft skin" ring any bells, SV fans? Total CW cheese. It was unnecessary, esp. when 100% of his focus in S7 should have been on unraveling Clark's secret.
    I'm sorry, but no. That was absolutely necessary to get Lex back to his Clark obsession. Which is what it was about. Lex finds himself having been saved in a very similar circumstance to the Clark situation, becomes obsessed with discovering who she is, only to find out that she has a connection to Clark. Lex's fixation on Clark's secret is something that he'd dropped in season 5. His character had to get back to that. Have a very great day!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  3. #18
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending Story View Post
    I love Chloe/Oliver and I can't stand Olicity. The two ships are really different IMO.

    I love Chlollie on SV and and I like Diggle/Lyla on Arrow. And that's all. The other ships on DCTV don't really register on my radar.
    Hmmm... thinking abt the two Oliver ships (SV and Arrow) I would have to go back and clarify my earlier statement. I was annoyed that the writers on SV created the Oliver/Chloe ship b/c it did feel like a consolation prize for the Chloe character and again, I never felt the chemistry between the 2 characters. Having said that, it was not unbearable (I could have done without it, but it was certainly not a major irritant for me). Now OLICITY on the other hand: Whoa! That ship's in a whole 'nother universe for how much I can't stand it and how irritating it is. It might be ascending to the rarefied ranks of the Clana ship for me. If Olicity never breaks up permanently, and I don't think it will, then it might even beat out Clana just b/c at least, one way or another (code for: kryptonite Lana and Arc of Suck) Clana did at least, fi-na-al-ly miraculously end.

    So, yeah I would never see Chlollie and OLICITY -- (it's grown to such a monstrosity in my eyes now that I think it deserves to be written all caps, at least sometimes, in homage to how superlatively bad I find it...) -- as the same, in that particular respect.
    Last edited by Shelby Kent; 05-10-2016 at 02:59 PM.

  4. #19
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    S7 suffered from some of the fallout of the writers' strike in the industry that year, so this might explain some of the meh writing too. But SV's here-and-there writing was always in its DNA, even before the strike.

    Lex's obsession with Clark's secret was something that he should never have dropped. Lex's obsession with Kara was something that he should never have picked up. This actually opens up a Pandora's Box of why he could even be distracted from the only obsession should matter to him on the show: Clark's secret. I can answer that in one word: melodrama. The current DCTV universe has it, but SV wrote the book on it.

    Why did the TPTB waste time on Lex investigating Kara -- when, on MR's last season on contract, they should have spent all that time with Lex actually investigating Clark? He had far more evidence re: Clark over the years, more than enough to unravel the final pieces without needing to go off on a Kara tangent. Going off on a Kara quest might have made more sense in earlier seasons, when Lex didn't have all the info about Clark. But in S7? Lex had plenty of info and more than enough suspicions to dig into Clark's secret and find it out, without having to get at it through Kara.

    Lex might not have been in love with Kara in the Clana romantic sense, but his obsession with her was its own form of the show "shipping" them and encouraging a melodramatic angle.

    It's a matter of opinion, not fact, if the writers having Lex investigate Kara as a convoluted route to uncovering Clark's secret was actually the best use of time (likely my biggest issue with it) during a strike-shortened season. I would say it wasn't.

    Lex got there eventually by the S7 finale, but the payoff would have been a whole lot better if it didn't get bogged down by a variety of factors. The series' heavy emphasis on melodrama (getting back to the topic at hand) does not get a pass from me on how it affected the telling of Clark's journey on SV over its 10 seasons or how it impacted the show's character development.

    This is not to say that all melodrama is always bad, anytime. It's how it was used on SV that is the issue -- which is ... not that well used more often than not.

  5. #20
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    S7 suffered from some of the fallout of the writers' strike in the industry that year, so this might explain some of the meh writing too. But SV's here-and-there writing was always in its DNA, even before the strike.

    Lex's obsession with Clark's secret was something that he should never have dropped. Lex's obsession with Kara was something that he should never have picked up. This actually opens up a Pandora's Box of why he could even be distracted from the only obsession should matter to him on the show: Clark's secret. I can answer that in one word: melodrama. The current DCTV universe has it, but SV wrote the book on it.
    I don't think so. Having Lex's character have a separate focus that also ties to Clark in regards to the aliens. And there's very little to gain from Lex dancing around Clark and his secret for 2 more seasons, achieving little in the way of results. The alien thing also opens up different goals and motivations for Lex as a character, with different aspects of his character to look at. There's not really any melodrama in Lex being taken off of the Clark obsession for a little while. In fact, I'd say the Clark obsession presents more melodrama than taking him off of it. Have a very great day!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  6. #21
    Board Master Tabularasa's Avatar
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    The biggest problem with the shipping was how characters just outstayed their welcome. Lana was supposed to be Clark's first real love, yet she stayed until like season 8 when she should have been written out at the end of 4 or 5. Lois was introduced in season 4 and there was tension between the two for years, but they didn't really become a thing until season 9. Chloe and Oliver seemed to be put together simply because both of their other love interests, Clark and Lois, were off the table. I never felt like Chloe even properly dealt with her husband being killed off by the guy she kept defending and very awkwardly kind of had feelings for. The Lex/Lana relationship was basically created to give tension between the feuding Clark and Lex which is just all kinds of bad writing.

    Basically, it felt like they had a set plan for the relationships, but characters outstayed their welcome as the show kept going on past a 5 year plan and the show pushed the ships because it was one thing they knew the fans were passionate about even when the story of the seasons had no legs.

  7. #22
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
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    Relationships and love triangles were part of the shows DNA from the beginning. While romance and heartache are human and inevitable, they relied too much on the relationships and triangles. One of the worst examples in my opinion was the Clark/Lana/Lex triangle in season 5/6. Fake babies and everything else, it was like a soap opera. In fact, Gough and Millar did interviews with Soap Opera Digest! While Lex would want to hurt Clark, for awhile it turned into their ruined friendship and adversarial relationship all being about Lana. That cheapened the legendary rivalry.

  8. #23
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergon6 View Post
    Relationships and love triangles were part of the shows DNA from the beginning. While romance and heartache are human and inevitable, they relied too much on the relationships and triangles. One of the worst examples in my opinion was the Clark/Lana/Lex triangle in season 5/6. Fake babies and everything else, it was like a soap opera. In fact, Gough and Millar did interviews with Soap Opera Digest! While Lex would want to hurt Clark, for awhile it turned into their ruined friendship and adversarial relationship all being about Lana. That cheapened the legendary rivalry.
    It didn't turn into that. Lex says in the season 5 finale that he went for Lana to get at Clark. And Clark reiterates that in the season 6 episode Crimson. Have a very great day!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  9. #24
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    It didn't turn into that. Lex says in the season 5 finale that he went for Lana to get at Clark. And Clark reiterates that in the season 6 episode Crimson. Have a very great day!

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
    thats my point, Lana was given frequently as a point of contention between them, like it was an overriding reason for their animosity.

  10. #25
    Posting Pro Aurora Moon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vergon6 View Post
    thats my point, Lana was given frequently as a point of contention between them, like it was an overriding reason for their animosity.
    I agree with this, actually. I would had preferred it if Lex Luthor became paranoid that Clark Kent were the one behind the alien invasions, etc. What if he was to interpret Jor-El's first message to Clark the same way Clark did the first time Clark heard it? "You shall become like a god, and rule them all"?
    To me, this would be a good way for Lex to start mistrusting Clark Kent and start seeing him as a bad guy... even justifying the things Lex did in later seasons to "protect" the earth from Clark Kent.

    Clark Kent would of course not know that Lex saw him as a threat to earth, etc and would only see Lex heading down a dark path....

    To me this would actually help them end up more like Lex and Superman from the comics. After all, in the comics Lex was an well-intentioned extremist who saw Superman as an threat to the Earth and that Lex saw himself as the hero who needed to save the Earth from Superman.

  11. #26
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aurora Moon View Post
    I agree with this, actually. I would had preferred it if Lex Luthor became paranoid that Clark Kent were the one behind the alien invasions, etc. What if he was to interpret Jor-El's first message to Clark the same way Clark did the first time Clark heard it? "You shall become like a god, and rule them all"?
    To me, this would be a good way for Lex to start mistrusting Clark Kent and start seeing him as a bad guy... even justifying the things Lex did in later seasons to "protect" the earth from Clark Kent.

    Clark Kent would of course not know that Lex saw him as a threat to earth, etc and would only see Lex heading down a dark path....

    To me this would actually help them end up more like Lex and Superman from the comics. After all, in the comics Lex was an well-intentioned extremist who saw Superman as an threat to the Earth and that Lex saw himself as the hero who needed to save the Earth from Superman.
    yeah I mean there was some of that but in later seasons until the Veritas arc, they were focused more on triangle drama. I do think the confrontation in Arctic and then again in Finale more reflected that dynamic you are pointing to. It harken a back to skinwalker and talisman. The idea that lex felt he needed to keep in check Clark (Naman), destroy him or use Clark's power in a partnership of sorts (onyx, finale).

  12. #27
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
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    With all the stalling and restrictions I do think in the end they portrayed Lois and Clark as progressing organically. I do agree that it got to a point where they were just checking off milestones in some episodes because they were running out or time. they should have shown more of them as journalists and cut out some of the drama like taking up a good chunk of the finale with them not sure if the wedding was happening. Then they almost finish it and after all that, they don't even have it finalized. Either do it or don't or suggest it's happening post Smallville.

    what sticks out like a sore thumb though is Chloe and Martha, and then Lois and Martha patting each other on the back for how well they have supported Clark and protected him from himself in Beacon. It didn't sound natural at all

  13. #28
    Custom Title jon-el87's Avatar
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    It wasn't entirely in the hands of the writers. They answered to the network (rather than having free hands), which requested the creation of Jason Teague (i.e. that they would give Lana a boyfriend). The show also coincided with the emergence of shipper fandom. Vocal groups who ship specific relationships online. If they're loud enough, it creates the impression that the majority of the show's fans want two characters to end up together (when it might actually just be a few hundred... out of millions of viewers). The writers are left with the impression that the fandom as a whole wants more of this and that. Additional problems can be created, if they're trying to appease everyone... As, when it comes to shipping, every pairing possible (regardless of how ridiculous) has its supporters. Some are dedicated to their ships to a toxic level (like we can see with Arrow, where Olicity shippers apparently harrassed Stephen Amell's real-life wife, because they feel that Stephen and the actress playing Felicity belong together).

    Unfortunately, the writers answers to the network. So, if the network pays attention to online buzz, notes a lot of interest for Clana or Chlollie, then there is a risk that they'll go to the writers and say: "do more if this" or "Do this".

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