A question about comic Green Arrow vrs the show's Green Arrow

[Haggard01]

Ok something I've often wondered about.

In the show people are wanting Oliver to become exactly like his comic book counterpart of the quippy jokes, and using a trick arrows with not killing. (get to that in a moment)

Now by those same extensions I've seen with the Sara vrs Laurel argument of well Sara is a killer and Black Canary is not a killer in the comics. But wait a moment they had a whole 7 episodes in season 2 and now in LoT they are still continuing that journey of Sara struggling with the two sides of being a killer and showing mercy.

Which Oliver himself, I have the feeling that by the end of the season will be back to killing again. Since I don't think the writers are going to be building towards this big pay off of Oliver at the grave vowing to kill Darhk (now that we know that) and not go through with it. Plus I kind of see Darhk being more of a one season villain so yea he's marked from a date with death.

Which even further since I recently discovered from JDBentz in PM's that Steven Amell did an interview of saying Oliver's arc is going to be in season 5 that he will be willing to kill, but will also be capable of showing mercy. So due to Ras A Gul being killed in 3x23, I will kind of say coming to the conclusion that since they are showing more than once Oliver making a vow we are going to see more of a slither of The Hood come back. Sorry (I'm really not) for all those who thought this was The Flash and not Arrow which is a dark, gritty show and something that the showrunners seam to want to get back to.

All that being said I've seen people accept Oliver killing an all as the GA a non killing hero but then by those same standards go "Oh Sara could never become Black Canary because she's a killer." Well neither could Oliver become the Green Arrow since he's a killer as well.

The reason why I didn't bring up Mike Grell is because that's not really considered (at least from what I've seen online) to be a part of what is considered as the classic Green Arrow or atleast I've seen people who use it seem to frequently forget Oliver became a killer in those stories.

My question is where do you guys come up with these conclusions?

[President_Luthor]

The show now may be revising that their Ollie isn't the sort that would resort to killing or is striving towards some non-killing ideal that really only emerged in S3. But S1 has been esp. influenced by Grell's work -- he even worked on the show's S1 comics tie-ins. So while it would be fair to say that Grell's work has little or no influence on the TV series since at least S3, Grell and Longbow Hunters is in the show's DNA. When the show was starting out, I'm pretty certain the showrunners themselves said Grell's work was one of their influences on their version of Arrow --S1 is largely close to the Grell Arrow. (They've also said the Nolan films influenced them and Batman in general.)

Some fans may disregard Grell's influence or say it doesn't apply now, that an Ollie that kills somehow can't be GA etc., but the Grell influence is in the DNA of the show. So if this Ollie does retain killing as one of his last-resort options by the series' end they could argue that they are staying "true" to the spirit of the show's origins.

It wouldn't disqualify him from being GA in my books.

[Haggard01]

The show now may be revising that their Ollie isn't the sort that would resort to killing or is striving towards some non-killing ideal that really only emerged in S3. But S1 has been esp. influenced by Grell's work -- he even worked on the show's S1 comics tie-ins. So while it would be fair to say that Grell's work has little or no influence on the TV series since at least S3, Grell and Longbow Hunters is in the show's DNA. When the show was starting out, I'm pretty certain the showrunners themselves said Grell's work was one of their influences on their version of Arrow --S1 is largely close to the Grell Arrow. (They've also said the Nolan films influenced them and Batman in general.)

Some fans may disregard Grell's influence or say it doesn't apply now, that an Ollie that kills somehow can't be GA etc., but the Grell influence is in the DNA of the show. So if this Ollie does retain killing as one of his last-resort options by the series' end they could argue that they are staying "true" to the spirit of the show's origins.

It wouldn't disqualify him from being GA in my books.

Good post and how Mike Grell's work is part of this show's DNA. I really don't have much to add.

[Amarice]

After I read Mike Grell's "The Longbow Hunters" it became obvious to me that it heavily influenced the tone of season 1 of "Arrow". There was even Quentin's counterpart present, which was a nice surprise.

Making a good adaptation and translating it to different medium doesn't mean that you take frame by frame from a specyfic comic (in GA case). It's about reflecting and capturing the spirit of the original. Green Arrow was always about modern Robin Hood - a guy who stands up for those who can't protect themselves. People look for heroes like that in real life, that's why Robin Hood legends lived on for centuries. Oliver as the Hood was a very disputable "hero", but he cared about "little guys" more than as "heroic Green Arrow", who doesn't give a damn that some poor guards are slaughtered by Sara.

I think I wrote this somewhere in another topic, but for me those separate stories like the one with Peter Declan, Royal Flush Gang, hostages in Year's End or Broken Dolls worked very well within the universe. In all those cases they were about Random People (Broken Dolls breaks the pattern, because Quentin and Laurel were in danger in the end - but mostly it was about A Cop & A Vigilante uneasy relationship as well as about capturing a psychopatic serial killer).

As for Sara becoming Black Canary - IMO she never should replace Laurel, because she was never meant to. She was a first version of BC, much like Yao Fei was "first Green Arrow".

But bringing up the argument that she can't be BC because she is/was a killer is not a good one for me. I would explain it only by the fact that some people use double standards when it comes to male/female characters and are much less forgiving about certain things. Now let's imagine how a woman who had as much romance affairs as Ollie during the course of the show would be called... And how many times Cupid was described as overpowered character, although there is quite good explanation about the level of her skills. How many times Laurel was called selfish when she just reacted like a normal person would in given situation with the amount of knowledge she had...? Etc. etc.

[Dagenspear]

But bringing up the argument that she can't be BC because she is/was a killer is not a good one for me. I would explain it only by the fact that some people use double standards when it comes to male/female characters and are much less forgiving about certain things. Now let's imagine how a woman who had as much romance affairs as Ollie during the course of the show would be called... And how many times Cupid was described as overpowered character, although there is quite good explanation about the level of her skills. How many times Laurel was called selfish when she just reacted like a normal person would in given situation with the amount of knowledge she had...? Etc. etc.

I would like to point out that not only do I not view Oliver as a sufficient hero on this show. I don't view him as a sufficient Green Arrow either, one of the reasons being his serial murdering. Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[Aurora Moon]

Yeah, it's hard for me to see him as the real Green Arrow thanks to all the serial killing he did in the past. At best, I could see him as a guy who's trying to redeem himself for all that he did, so that he can become a hero like he wanted to be. I'm fine with him just being called "Arrow", because he isn't Green arrow to me.

I also agree that there seems to be a horrible double standard in how fans treat Oliver Queen, Sara and Lance respectively.

[Dagenspear]

Yeah, it's hard for me to see him as the real Green Arrow thanks to all the serial killing he did in the past. At best, I could see him as a guy who's trying to redeem himself for all that he did, so that he can become a hero like he wanted to be. I'm fine with him just being called "Arrow", because he isn't Green arrow to me.

I also agree that there seems to be a horrible double standard in how fans treat Oliver Queen, Sara and Lance respectively.

We have such a weird posting discussion history. Sometimes we're at eachothers throats, figuratively speaking of course, which I'm happy hasn't happened very often lately. And others, like now, I very much agree. Have a very great day!

God bless you! God bless everyone!

[Amarice]

Yeah, it's hard for me to see him as the real Green Arrow thanks to all the serial killing he did in the past. At best, I could see him as a guy who's trying to redeem himself for all that he did, so that he can become a hero like he wanted to be. I'm fine with him just being called "Arrow", because he isn't Green arrow to me.

I also agree that there seems to be a horrible double standard in how fans treat Oliver Queen, Sara and Lance respectively.

I agree that given his criminal record Oliver could never become "anything else" that a vigilante. They did quite good job in season 2 when he at least started to give some thoughts to his methods and tried to redeem himself. But what happens latter within the show (from the beginning of season 3) doesn't make too much sense. I mean, calling him Green Arrow after killing off the Arrow persona doesn't magically cancel the fact that he had killed quite A LOT of people. But the Arrow as a conflicted and disputable vigilante (anti)hero was interesting to me and existed somehow alongside Green Arrow from the comics. "Green Arrow" in season 4 is neither interesting as a cha racter, neither reminds Green Arrow from the comics or JLU show.