Are they pulling a "Michael Vaughn"? Why [SPOILER] might not be dead

[Russkafin]

I don't believe Laurel is dead. I think she faked her death with Oliver's help, and I think it is very similar to what ALIAS did with Michael Vaughn in season 5.

Hear me out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQy2ybVxiM

[TheSecretVampire]

I don't know, she looked quite dead to me.......though it was clunky how it was handled by us not hearing what she said to Oliver and then she suddenly dies, after being quite alive for several minutes. I don't think she is coming back, though based off how other deaths were reversed, it wouldn't shock me to see Laurel at some point again towards the end of this series. Yes, I know what the showrunners have said this death will stick, but I'm not buying it.

[Halberdier17]

If she isn't actually dead and just faking it I hope what she told Oliver is tell my father I'm not really dead.

If she is just faking and they don't tell Quentin he isn't going to take it well he's been through a lot already: Sara went missing, came back, killed, resurrected, than Laurel dies, and have Laurel say I wasn't really dead I faked it; his heart can't take it.

[Russkafin]

If she isn't actually dead and just faking it I hope what she told Oliver is tell my father I'm not really dead.

If she is just faking and they don't tell Quentin he isn't going to take it well he's been through a lot already: Sara went missing, came back, killed, resurrected, than Laurel dies, and have Laurel say I wasn't really dead I faked it; his heart can't take it.

So true. A parent should never have to experience the death of a child. Quentin's been through it like three or four times and he only has two kids!

[BkWurm1]

Here's the question of the hour...WHY would Laurel fake her death? It's not like she had to lie to her team if she was going into hiding. There is no good reason to fake her death to the extent that all of her closest, most trusted friends and family also think she's dead. Also, is it in her personality to go into hiding when faced with a threat?

Vaughn was killed in Alias basically for behind the scenes reasons involving the lead actress and when those reason cleared up, they brought him back to best serve the story and give the fans a happy ending for the lead. Unless there is way more BTS drama over at Arrow that we don't know about, they killed Laurel for story reasons. I don't see how removing her from the show would solve any BTS stuff (since I don't think there was a interpersonal conflict) nor did she have a relationship with anyone that her return would be needed to tie up loose ends.

I just don't see the likelihood. I never say never because I think the show is going to be around for a long time and there are options available to bring back any currently dead character if they so decided, I just can't see any reason as of yet for them to make that decision.

[TyrantLord]

I don't believe Laurel is dead. I think she faked her death with Oliver's help, and I think it is very similar to what ALIAS did with Michael Vaughn in season 5.

Hear me out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQy2ybVxiM

No, she's gone for good. Even if they decided to pull a family guy and backtrack, you would've heard it from the production crew by now because it would be them on full damage control.

Laurel's actress is coming back for Flash, and that's it. Probably so she can help herself fulfill her contract obligations as she leaves. After her appearances in Flash are done, then its adios. But that's ok, I have other great DC shows to watch as is the case with Flash and Supergirl. Legends is "meh" at this point to me but I still have hope that it'll improve.

[Russkafin]

Here's the question of the hour...WHY would Laurel fake her death? It's not like she had to lie to her team if she was going into hiding. There is no good reason to fake her death to the extent that all of her closest, most trusted friends and family also think she's dead. Also, is it in her personality to go into hiding when faced with a threat?

Because of what happened in this episode. We just saw what happened when too many people were in on an important secret. John said too much in front of Andy and he was able to find and steal the last piece of the idol for Damien. If they are going to truly trick Damien into thinking Laurel is dead then they can't let everyone be in on it.

I don't think it is coincidence that just now in this episode did they reveal that Damien knows their secret identities. If he knew that Laurel Lance was still alive and in a weakened state he would want to track her down and finish her off. Before this episode he had no idea who the Black Canary was so that would have been irrelevant.

No it is not in her personality to go into hiding but with how weak and vulnerable she is after that attack I don't think she has much choice, at least until she recovers.

[Shelby Kent]

I enjoyed your video and thought it was well done. If I understood correctly, you are making the case that Laurel faked her death as a way to make Darhk think she was dead and so that he would think he had succeeded in carrying out the threat he had earlier made to Quentin (killing Laurel) if Quentin did not cooperate? And that theoretically, then, the idea could be that Laurel goes into hiding while the rest of the team figures out how to take out Darhk? Then Laurel could come back out of hiding once Darhk has been dealt with and her safety can be assured?

A case against this might be that they would not have really been able to plan very well ahead for this, considering that they could not have had any control over, and thus accurately predict and plan for, Darhk's action in the final confrontation with Laurel. It seems like they would have had to take advantage of what happened and come up with a spur of the moment plan. Maybe Laurel started carrying around a fake-death-inducing drug just in case for such an eventuality? (Not being sarcastic here.) Of course, a case for the idea that the death was faked under such circumstances (taking advantage of what seems to be an unpredictable event) could be that this is afterall a superhero TV show and viewers are used to believing lots of totally unrealistic & convoluated scenarios, so...

I also think it matters very much as to the perspective one is viewing this from. And I think someone here on the board touched on this in an earlier post somewhere when they pointed out that the casual viewer who does not follow social media and does not read Uncle Guggie interviews -- (and BTW they are not hard to avoid at all, I know quite a few viewers of the show that have no idea who Guggenheim is in the grand scheme of things and never read interviews....) -- would not necessarily be aware that suddenly death has stakes and is serious! The reason we on this board "know" this is because of all the out-of-show. behind-the-scenes stuff we read about. But if you follow only in-show then there is no reason why you couldn't reasonably think this is fake or reversible at some point, given your (ie the casual unspoiled non-interview-reading viewer's) experience of the show to date. That's why, for the casual viewer who is not clued in by all Guggles' interviews and online social media, the funeral episode will be important in trying to shut the door on any idea that Laurel's death was faked. As far as Laurel not coming back where the casual viewer is concerned, well that may take a lot longer to sink in....

[Russkafin]

No, she's gone for good. Even if they decided to pull a family guy and backtrack, you would've heard it from the production crew by now because it would be them on full damage control.

Laurel's actress is coming back for Flash, and that's it. Probably so she can help herself fulfill her contract obligations as she leaves. After her appearances in Flash are done, then its adios. But that's ok, I have other great DC shows to watch as is the case with Flash and Supergirl. Legends is "meh" at this point to me but I still have hope that it'll improve.

I'm sure Katie Cassidy really is leaving the show. I don't think that is a "fake-out," I think she wants to leave to pursue other projects. However, I do think they will eventually reveal that she is alive and that Katie will be back as an occasional guest star at that point like any of the other heroes who pop up to assist with a mission or two.

[Russkafin]

A case against this might be that they would not have really been able to plan very well ahead for this, considering that they could not have had any control over, and thus accurately predict and plan for, Darhk's action in the final confrontation with Laurel. It seems like they would have had to take advantage of what happened and come up with a spur of the moment plan. Maybe Laurel started carrying around a fake-death-inducing drug just in case for such an eventuality? (Not being sarcastic here.) Of course, a case for the idea that the death was faked under such circumstances (taking advantage of what seems to be an unpredictable event) could be that this is afterall a superhero TV show and viewers are used to believing lots of totally unrealistic & convoluated scenarios, so...

Right. It is a bit of a stretch, but I don't think it falls outside the realm of possibility for this show. lol

Could have been something Oliver and Laurel were considering as a contingency plan if Darhk did try to make good on that threat, but had not fully decided to enact or not... and then when they were alone in the hospital room basically said "If we are going to do this, we have to do it now."

[Shelby Kent]

Right. It is a bit of a stretch, but I don't think it falls outside the realm of possibility for this show. lol

Could have been something Oliver and Laurel were considering as a contingency plan if Darhk did try to make good on that threat, but had not fully decided to enact or not... and then when they were alone in the hospital room basically said "If we are going to do this, we have to do it now."

Yes, and probably a lot less of a stretch than some of the other scenarios viewers have been expected to accept and go along with!

[Amarice]

I don't believe Laurel is dead. I think she faked her death with Oliver's help, and I think it is very similar to what ALIAS did with Michael Vaughn in season 5.

Hear me out...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlQy2ybVxiM

Very interesting theory and well put together. Unfortunately I don't see Laurel coming back in the nearest future, because those showrunners are not able to think more than two or three episodes ahead, let alone plan something like this in advance.

But no matter what the exact outcome is going to be, I really, really liked how perfectly this video captured how absurd is making this one death day stick, after so many returns from the grave (Ollie, Sara, Ollie, Thea, Ollie again aaaaaaaand Sara again) and fake deaths (Roy). It seems that in this show only Queens and Lances are given one-way death ticket straight to hell (Tommy was almost a Queen, since he spend so many time in Oliver's house).

[JDBentz]

My two cents: if this is the case, then its not an idea that came from Guggenheim and Mericle, but from Kreisberg and Berlanti. If it is the case, than we won't really see any fruition to it so long as Mericle and Guggenheim run the show.

[BkWurm1]

also think it matters very much as to the perspective one is viewing this from. And I think someone here on the board touched on this in an earlier post somewhere when they pointed out that the casual viewer who does not follow social media and does not read Uncle Guggie interviews -- (and BTW they are not hard to avoid at all, I know quite a few viewers of the show that have no idea who Guggenheim is in the grand scheme of things and never read interviews....) -- would not necessarily be aware that suddenly death has stakes and is serious! The reason we on this board "know" this is because of all the out-of-show. behind-the-scenes stuff we read about. But if you follow only in-show then there is no reason why you couldn't reasonably think this is fake or reversible at some point, given your (ie the casual unspoiled non-interview-reading viewer's) experience of the show to date. That's why, for the casual viewer who is not clued in by all Guggles' interviews and online social media, the funeral episode will be important in trying to shut the door on any idea that Laurel's death was faked. As far as Laurel not coming back where the casual viewer is concerned, well that may take a lot longer to sink in....

Oh I agree. If I didn't have a mountain of reasons outside the show why I think it's going to stick, that very cagey ending would have me convinced her death was faked. I think I'd lean toward someone evil faking her death since I still don't think it would make sense to withhold that info from the friends and family. (Thus allowing all of them to really believe she is dead) Malcolm always has hidden agenda. From a story telling standpoint he could have some twisted plot up his sleeve to undermine DD even as he helps him.

Right. It is a bit of a stretch, but I don't think it falls outside the realm of possibility for this show. lol

Could have been something Oliver and Laurel were considering as a contingency plan if Darhk did try to make good on that threat, but had not fully decided to enact or not... and then when they were alone in the hospital room basically said "If we are going to do this, we have to do it now."

And not tell Quentin? It isn't a case of Quentin just came at a bad moment and they will have to wait until they are alone so he can be filled in, Oliver emoted Laurel's death. There would be no reason in the world to ever be that cruel if she's just off to go hide while she's recovering . I wasn't sure the shock wasn't going to kill Quentin as well. Would Laurel have agreed to such a plan?

The argument about not telling the team so the wrong person doesn't find out implies that Laurel and Oliver no longer trust their team mates. Diggle did trust Andy but he's learned his lesson and he knows how to keep secrets. He just didn't think the info about the idol was a secret from Andy. If they don't trust Diggle not to talk out of turn when it's a matter of her life or death, then even if Laurel survived the team would be dead.

[Arrow_47]

Oh I agree. If I didn't have a mountain of reasons outside the show why I think it's going to stick, that very cagey ending would have me convinced her death was faked. I think I'd lean toward someone evil faking her death since I still don't think it would make sense to withhold that info from the friends and family. (Thus allowing all of them to really believe she is dead) Malcolm always has hidden agenda. From a story telling standpoint he could have some twisted plot up his sleeve to undermine DD even as he helps him.






And not tell Quentin? It isn't a case of Quentin just came at a bad moment and they will have to wait until they are alone so he can be filled in, Oliver emoted Laurel's death. There would be no reason in the world to ever be that cruel if she's just off to go hide while she's recovering . I wasn't sure the shock wasn't going to kill Quentin as well. Would Laurel have agreed to such a plan?

The argument about not telling the team so the wrong person doesn't find out implies that Laurel and Oliver no longer trust their team mates. Diggle did trust Andy but he's learned his lesson and he knows how to keep secrets. He just didn't think the info about the idol was a secret from Andy. If they don't trust Diggle not to talk out of turn when it's a matter of her life or death, then even if Laurel survived the team would be dead.

Excellent analysis on all points, except you are employing logic to a show who's writers (for the most part) are illogical. Case in point, Oliver is skilled enough to defeat Ra's Al Guhl one week, and cannot defeat a henchman the next. The writers could care less about consistency or storylines making any sense. If ratings drop drastically enough, and they believe it is because of fan reaction to Laurel's death (as was the case with Vaughn in Alias) they will more likely than not find a way to bring her back, regardless of how well it fits with the story. That "moment" with her and Oliver was an "out" should they need it in the future. That is why they are waiting until season 5 to reveal it. If ratings remain consistent, the conversation will probably be Olicity centric. If ratings drop, it will be how they are going to fake her death, let Quentin know but at the same time make sure Quentin acts as though he isn't in on it; same way they did with Sydney (Alias).

ETA: In fairness, part of the outrage with Vaughn was that they already announced at the end of season 4 that season 5 would be the last one. So killing him off at the beginning of the final season was a slap in the face to the loyal fans who carried the show for that long. They didn't bring him back to improve ratings (since the show was already being cancelled), but I think it was because they realized they were wrong for doing it in the first place. Should TPTB for Arrow come to the same realization about Laurel's death, I hope they don't go the fake death route but rather bring in Dinah Lance from E2.