View Poll Results: What did you think?

Voters
42. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Excellent

    6 14.29%
  • 9

    3 7.14%
  • 8

    2 4.76%
  • 7q

    1 2.38%
  • 6

    2 4.76%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    1 2.38%
  • 1 - They killed the wrong blonde

    27 64.29%
Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 203
  1. #31
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 11
    Posts
    604
    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    I’ve strived to provide a professional attitude when reviewing these episodes. I can no longer do this, at least for Arrow.

    There has been much debate as to what the promo for “Eleven Fifty-Nine” meant when it said “witness the end of an era”. For some, they will see it as the end of the era where Dinah Laurel Lance was a prominent figure in the show (and for those who disliked her character, whether due to the poor writing or because they are fans of the Olicity pairing and saw her as a continual threat to their beloved OTP). However, if this ends any kind of era, it is the era where “Arrow” could be considered a comic book adaptation. From this point forward, it is a normal action-adventure show in my book, on those occasions it doesn’t become a romantic comedy and/or tragedy.

    As for the episode itself:

    Oliver’s suspicions are raised with regards to Andy Diggle when information he provides leads them to a conveniently-timed heist which leaves only Thea and Laurel to guard the idol in the Arrow Cave, which Oliver finally revealed to the team he’s seen before on Lian Yu. He eventually finds Andy trying to find the missing shard that Oliver asked Dig to hide away, and tries to interrogate him. Dig arrives on the scene and momentarily turns against Oliver, which he later regrets when its revealed who Andy is truly fighting for.

    Thea and Malcolm’s relationship has finally broken, and I doubt Thea will ever see him as anything but the man who helped break out the monster who murdered her best friend (which is what she and Laurel really ended up being by the end). Malcolm will try, sure, but I think his bridges into Team Arrow have been thoroughly burned, and next season we will see him fully become the Dark Archer.

    Laurel shone in this episode, and that would have been enjoyable if they had done so for her in any other goddamned episode! From exchanging quips with Ollie to choosing being the Black Canary over taking the District Attorney job, Laurel was finally given the chance to show her growth. That it came in an episode like this just made it all the more bitter. The conversation between she and Oliver, where she confessed to him that he would always be the love of her life even if she wasn’t his, and revealed she had carried the old picture he had held on the island with her during missions, was like a blow to the gut. That she was killed with Oliver’s arrow was another blow to the gut.

    As for what she whispered to Oliver: unless she asked him to use some ninja trick of his to fake her death (and that’s a desperate hope and unlikely to happen), I honestly doubt Guggenheim and Mericle will be able to deliver on it. They’ve made it clear who they wish to make the show for, and its not the normal fans. I’m sure that it will be some big Olicity thing in the end.

    However, despite everything, Marc Guggenheim couldn’t resist some shameless shilling for Felicity Smoak by having Laurel tell Oliver she is glad he found Felicity and hopes he finds his way back to her. They couldn’t go one goddamned episode without doing something like this; that it happened on HER F****** DEATHBED MAKES IT EVEN WORSE! Why!? Why couldn’t they just let it be about Oliver and Laurel in that scene, nothing else? Are they that desperate to get people to accept the goddamned Olicity romance that they’re forcing it on us like that!? Then we get all of 10 seconds to show Lance arriving and his reaction to Oliver’s expression; the writers/showrunners didn’t even have the decency to let Lance say goodbye to his daughter!?

    The only good thing about this episode was the scenes for Oliver and Laurel being so similar to their comic counterparts.

    Five points docked for killing off the Black Canary. Three points for the main character using an archaic weapon since I now consider this a normal action-adventure show and not a comic adaptation. Six points docked for shameless shilling of the Felicity character on her romantic rival’s DEATHBED. Two point upward adjustment for the scenes of Oliver and Laurel being similar to their counterparts in the comics.

    Since most sites use a scale of 1-10, this is a one on those sites. But the actual score is -2/+10.


    If I could like this post 1,000 times, I would........well said, man.


    What really hit me the worst was the picture and that Laurel called Oliver the love of her life........that was so deep.


    I really Oliver hope gives both Darhk and Malcolm, very quick and painful deaths.

  2. #32
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 07
    Location
    The Twilighty Zone
    Posts
    25,303
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    If I could like this post 1,000 times, I would........well said, man.


    What really hit me the worst was the picture and that Laurel called Oliver the love of her life........that was so deep.


    I really Oliver hope gives both Darhk and Malcolm, very quick and painful deaths.
    Agreed, this was just...ugh. I can only imagine how viewers like you guys, who have been watching the show more regularly must feel when I think it's horrendous.

  3. #33
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 07
    Location
    The Twilighty Zone
    Posts
    25,303
    Quote Originally Posted by SVfan26 View Post
    Thanks for the answers. Thought that's what was meant, but wanted to make sure.

    Well, if [SPOILER]the E2 BC from Flash is kept on E1[/SPOILER], that could be very well what we see happen here.
    That could be. Although the prevailing theory seems to be that they would bring Sara back. Wouldn't be surprised if she changes her name to Dinah Laurel Lance to honor her sister or something...because clearly the Arrow writers really liked the Henry James Olsen type of idea.

  4. #34
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,876
    Quote Originally Posted by Vergon6 View Post
    Agreed, this was just...ugh. I can only imagine how viewers like you guys, who have been watching the show more regularly must feel when I think it's horrendous.
    I'm still ranting about it 3 hours later. That should give you an idea...

  5. #35
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    May 14
    Posts
    268
    I googled the arrow cast and crew and when to a site that list what episode all the actor are in. The Site list Katie Cassidy as being in all 23 episodes of the season. So she will be in the flashbacks or the death was faked.

  6. #36
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,876
    Quote Originally Posted by acer15 View Post
    I googled the arrow cast and crew and when to a site that list what episode all the actor are in. The Site list Katie Cassidy as being in all 23 episodes of the season. So she will be in the flashbacks or the death was faked.
    If it was IMDB, that is an unreliable site.

  7. #37
    Madman With A Blue Box Austin 3:16's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 04
    Location
    AZ
    Posts
    7,385
    People on twitter have been saying Felicity should b the one to end Darkh. Look how hard she took the death and i would not be against it.

    Btw why in the description on my DirecTV guide did it say Felicity was telling Curtis something important? Felicity was only in the end of it and Curtis wasnt there at all. What the heck?

  8. #38
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 12
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    3,754
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    What really hit me the worst was the picture and that Laurel called Oliver the love of her life.......
    Okay why does it not surprise me that the same guy (Guggenheim) who thought, in the pilot, it was perfectly reasonable to expect me to root for Laurel to be with Oliver, even though he had cheated on her with her sister, would also think that I would be touched by the idea that Laurel -- an intelligent, attractive young lady who had quite a lot going for her (she'd dated a nice guy Tommy, had jobs where she wanted to help people, struggled with and overcome substance abuse, made peace with her father and sister, cared enough about her sister's death to want to find a way to channel her anger into something meaningful...) -- so, anyway, I am supposed to be touched by the idea that she would consider her ex-boyfriend (who cheated on her with her sister, who then pretty much spent the next few years not having much to do with her, who fell in love with another woman and who briefly considered throwing her under the bus for a totally unnecessary political reason at a time when he was running unopposed for mayor) to be the love of her life? That she didn't believe or know that she deserved better than someone like that; that we can't have a portrayal of a woman who has accomplished so much, knowing that she is worth so much more than what Oliver ever can or will give her Now THAT'S my idea of misogyny, Uncle Guggles: writing crap like that! It's just not much different than thinking I should root for a woman to get back together with her abusive husband b/c she insists that she loves him

    I just wonder: if Uncle Guggles has (or if not has, then theoretically had) a daughter -- would that be something he would be rooting for for his daughter? That first she get back together with a guy that cheated on her with her sister and then, when that didn't happen and she ended up on her deathbed, her experience is that she leaves the world feeling that that cheating ex-boyfriend, who fell in love with someone else, was the love of her life??

  9. #39
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 07
    Location
    The Twilighty Zone
    Posts
    25,303
    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    If it was IMDB, that is an unreliable site.
    Exactly. I mean IMDB frequently listed Tom Welling as playing Clark Kent and Bizarro in several where there was no Bizarro lol. Also, John Schneider appeared in the credits for all of Season 5 of Smallville but Jonathan died several episodes before the end of the season. He only appeared sporadically for the rest of the season, either as a ghost or as Brainac posing as him.

  10. #40
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 11
    Posts
    2,173
    So, that's that. Anyone wanna help me write a Batman fanfiction series set in the Arrowverse, where Laurel is brought back? I'm already working on an idea... I hope ya'll stick around this forum despite some of you not watching the show anymore. Have a very great day everyone!

    God bless everyone!

  11. #41
    Mod of Steel Vergon6's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 07
    Location
    The Twilighty Zone
    Posts
    25,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Okay why does it not surprise me that the same guy (Guggenheim) who thought, in the pilot, it was perfectly reasonable to expect me to root for Laurel to be with Oliver, even though he had cheated on her with her sister, would also think that I would be touched by the idea that Laurel -- an intelligent, attractive young lady who had quite a lot going for her (she'd dated a nice guy Tommy, had jobs where she wanted to help people, struggled with and overcome substance abuse, made peace with her father and sister, cared enough about her sister's death to want to find a way to channel her anger into something meaningful...) -- so, anyway, I am supposed to be touched by the idea that she would consider her ex-boyfriend (who cheated on her with her sister, who then pretty much spent the next few years not having much to do with her, who fell in love with another woman and who briefly considered throwing her under the bus for a totally unnecessary political reason at a time when he was running unopposed for mayor) to be the love of her life? That she didn't believe or know that she deserved better than someone like that; that we can't have a portrayal of a woman who has accomplished so much, knowing that she is worth so much more than what Oliver ever can or will give her Now THAT'S my idea of misogyny, Uncle Guggles: writing crap like that! It's just not much different than thinking I should root for a woman to get back together with her abusive husband b/c she insists that she loves him

    I just wonder: if Uncle Guggles has (or if not has, then theoretically had) a daughter -- would that be something he would be rooting for for his daughter? That first she get back together with a guy that cheated on her with her sister and then, when that didn't happen and she ended up on her deathbed, her experience is that she leaves the world feeling that that cheating ex-boyfriend, who fell in love with someone else, was the love of her life??
    Unbelievable. I get that it's good to have shades of grey in characters, but that is ridiculous...no make that ridonculous.

  12. #42
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 08
    Posts
    76,261
    People mentioning the Henry James Olsen similarities. Actually there was a more glaring Smallville parallel: An iconic hero pimping a ship with their final breath. Exactly what Carter Hall did when he died in Icarus, where he gave a whole speech to Clark about holding onto Lois.

    Gosh, where to begin? Quality wise, it's probably the best episode they've done in the last 2 years. No doubt. Decision making wise, it's a shambolic disgrace that officially puts an end to a show that was once about Oliver Queen. Now it's a Felicity show and I hope they brand it as such from now on. Random thoughts:

    - RIP Laurel Lance. I didn't like you at first, but your character growth and maturity made me respect you more than anyone else on this show. You and Thea were the only reasons I kept watching (how ironic).

    - I was waiting for the showrunners to explain the decision after the episode. Expecting to hear that Katie had decided to leave or that DC has taken the character off the table. Anything to aleviate my fears that they were that stupid. Instead, Guggenheim and Mericle confirmed my worst suspicions: It was a creative decision. So they basically knock off the second most iconic character in this canon because she won't be Oliver's love interest again (that in itself speaks volumes about the way they write women) and because they want the show to "evolve". Into what? Sex and the Felicity? These people are pretending to be Green Arrow writers and they honestly ran out of ideas for the Black Canary after 2 seasons (where she was underutilized anyway)? Laurel had a lot more to offer this show. Finally, and despite what Guggenheim brags about, there was nothing bold about this decision. Killing off major characters to help the characters and the show "evolve" is nothing but a telling sign of how creatively bankrupt the producers are.

    - The whole manner of Laurel's death was poor. First of all, she should have gone out swinging. She didn't save anyone or sacrifice herself for anyone. Instead, she's basically executed by Darhk without putting up a fight. And that wasn't even the worst part! She doesn't die straight away. She briefly stabilizes in the hospital long enough to pimp Olicity. UGH! And the most insulting thing? When she exchanges I love yous with the team, Oliver stands there smiling like a goof. You know, if Oliver says "I love you" to one of the most important people in his life it doesn't necessarily undermine Olicity. The only decent thing about those scenes was the photograph reference.

    - 45 minutes into this episode you are thinking, "finally a Felicity-free episode". And then she shows up. Ok, she's one of Laurel's friends, but why the hell should she be there while Quentin misses his chance to say goodbye to his daughter? Felicity should have skipped this episode altogether. Btw, I just read a Marc Guggenheim interview and when asked why the decided to have Quentin miss his daughter's last moment his response was, "I don't remember". Seriously.

    - The cast delivered some fantastic performances. I was very impressed with Amell, Ramsey, Blackthorne, Willa and especially Katie. Unlike her character, she certainly went out swinging and proved what the show will miss from now on. The only cacophony in the hospital scenes is Emily's acting when Laurel dies. Awful.

    - Besides the cast, the only other crew member who never disappoints is Blake Neely. Terrific score once again.

    - Don't feel like delving into the whole Darhk/Malcolm/Andy stuff. Honestly, who cares anymore? Same goes for the flashbacks.

    1/10. Because that's what moronic showrunning such as this deserves and because I fully concur that the wrong blonde died (thanks to whoever added that sentence to the poll).
    Last edited by costas22; 04-07-2016 at 03:25 AM.

  13. #43
    Nate nate-dog1701d's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 10
    Location
    Sector 2814
    Posts
    3,572
    If that wasn't a fake-out, that death was poorly done, and it was probably poorly done anyway. The ship had pretty clearly sailed on their romance long ago, so to suggest Oliver was the love of her life was insultingly ridiculous.

    Hey, on the bright side, we'll get guilt-ridden Diggle.

  14. #44
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Feb 13
    Location
    Stockholm, Sweden
    Posts
    1,127
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    I been a Laurel fan since day 1 and while there were small stretches where I hated her character, she still ended up as my favorite character on the show. It's really sad to see her die on the show, but what is done is done.


    And yeah, Laurel is pretty much hated on almost everywhere. This site is probably the one place where the Laurel fan support is pretty good.
    You should check the reddit "Arrow" forum, which is a large and very busy forum with some 60.000 members. The majority of the active posters like/appreciate Laurel/Black Canary and cannot stand Felicity, because they feel she has become far too domineering. That site has been in a state of rage for the past weeks over the leaks about Laurel's death. The same goes for many comics-oriented discussion forums (imdb, IGN). I know Oliciters have been harping on their "Laurel is an impopular character with at most five stans" for years now, but the tides changed in a major way in seasons three and four. If you had been on the producers'/writers' twitter yesterday and today you would also have seen an outpour of rage, bitterness and sadness from lots of fans, who (unlike many oliciters) don't live 24/7 on social media, but who tweeted to the TPTB to express their outrage.

    I'm sure the show will limp on for several seasons yet, with a bad audience reception (because VERY few online fans I know like the current state of the show), OK ratings and lots of Felicity/Olicity shilling to keep the social media active shippers satisfied.

    Finally, to say that only "a select few" like(d) Laurel (while the masses love Felicity, I presume?) seems a bit presumptious. I think it depends on where you look, but the forums I lurk on are not at all Felicity or Olicity-friendly, quite the opposite. They view the showrunners' pandering to a vocal minority of shippers and Felicity-worshippers as one of the reasons why the quality has declined so much, and why there is so little respect for the source material. Felicity may be more popular, but the recent seasons haven't done her character any favors...so even if most passionate Laurel fans stop watching the show, I'm not sure that even the casual viewers will find Felicity's shallow character portrayal (or EBR's IMHO weak acting) as endearing as when she was the show's "break out" character.
    Last edited by evaba; 04-07-2016 at 01:44 AM.

  15. #45
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 11
    Posts
    2,173
    I've headcanoned Laurel's death away already: Laurel’s death was faked by Silk Sister and her brothers as a way to hurt Sara as revenge for killing their dad when she was still a member of the League Of Assassins and in hopes that she could brainwash Laurel into killing Sara or force Sara to kill her, dealing the worst punishment to her either way. She brainwashed Laurel and trained her vigorously to be able to fight Sara, making her an extremely capable fighter. Silk Sister then set up a series of breadcrumbs that Sara has tracked obsessively after she was tipped off by a fake source that Laurel's body was missing from her coffin. Sara dug up the grave and found out the truth and became convinced that her sister was alive, never telling anyone about to avoid anyone trying to stop her. When she found her, her and Laurel fought to a near stalemate, before Sara stated that she refused to kill her sister, but Laurel broke her brainwashing just as she was about to kill Sara and they were able to defeat the Silk siblings together. Have a very great day everyone!

    God bless everyone!

Page 3 of 14 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •