Wow...we certainly deserve better than 11x17. Come on writers...

[waynedeath1047]

When the credits rolled on 11x17 last night. An episode that was supposed to show us a little more on the state of DEATH in this brave new world that The Darkness inhabits I was honestly left baffled by how in what's been an above average season so far that the writer's think it's okay to insult our intelligence by not only offering nothing new here but giving us a pointless exercise in Dean killing himself for Sam.

It's a trope in this show that is supposed to play for the heart strings but this time it just made everyone involved look like fools. And if you are going to bring a reaper who is promising The Void to both Dean and Sam if they purposely kick that door open then you need to for damn sure show us the goods. Seriously, what a lazy, unbelievably dull, waste of time and space this episode was. The writer's room should be ashamed of themselves.

Time to get back to the overarching plot. Sooner rather than later please....

[taftvalue]

Yeah holy ****, this episode had to be the epitome of wasted potential.

Let's explore the 'Empty'? Nope, let's just have a random werewolf episode instead. We can always need more of those!

Kinda fed up with this show by now tbh. When I compare this level of writing to other shows I watch (Better Call Saul, The 100 (another CW show btw)) I kinda wanna throw up.

Ugh well, it's not like it costs anything to watch it.

[fletch]

I consider it false advertisement or you could look at it as high expectations. But if the showrunners really did kill off death, specifically Julian Richings, shame on them. But since Kripke left, everythings gotten worse. The direction, the castings, the writing, and the acting have been subpar.

[taftvalue]

Yeah Kripke was the man. It's never quite been the same since the end of season 5.

[sino8r]

Yeah, this was a terrible episode. I kept hoping something new or interesting might happen but it never did. The only twist was Sam not actually being dead but who cares. This has been done before practically. At least the next episode looks decent. And yes Death being dead is beyond stupid. Why don't they just kill Amara with Death's scythe? Didn't Death say it could kill God?! Huge plot hole! Instead they need a Hand of God? The only reason they decide to ignore this was to make it seem like a difficult task and extend the show a couple of more years. Sloppy writing for sure. At least let them attempt to use the scythe and fail. Makes no sense...

[TyrantLord]

Yeah, this was a terrible episode. I kept hoping something new or interesting might happen but it never did. The only twist was Sam not actually being dead but who cares. This has been done before practically. At least the next episode looks decent. And yes Death being dead is beyond stupid. Why don't they just kill Amara with Death's scythe? Didn't Death say it could kill God?! Huge plot hole! Instead they need a Hand of God? The only reason they decide to ignore this was to make it seem like a difficult task and extend the show a couple of more years. Sloppy writing for sure. At least let them attempt to use the scythe and fail. Makes no sense...

didn't the Scythe disappear with Death's "body" as he died? I don't think they COULD use it even if they wanted to if that were the case.

I suppose they could say that the scythe itself was a hand of god if they really needed to, hence why it would be powerful enough to kill god himself because it's just as strong as he is.

But no, them killing off death is just supernatural feeding it's own addiction to "every story has to end in the character's death". Sigh.

[ZeoVGM]

When the credits rolled on 11x17 last night. An episode that was supposed to show us a little more on the state of DEATH in this brave new world that The Darkness inhabits I was honestly left baffled by how in what's been an above average season so far that the writer's think it's okay to insult our intelligence by not only offering nothing new here but giving us a pointless exercise in Dean killing himself for Sam.

It's a trope in this show that is supposed to play for the heart strings but this time it just made everyone involved look like fools. And if you are going to bring a reaper who is promising The Void to both Dean and Sam if they purposely kick that door open then you need to for damn sure show us the goods. Seriously, what a lazy, unbelievably dull, waste of time and space this episode was. The writer's room should be ashamed of themselves.

Time to get back to the overarching plot. Sooner rather than later please....

Sorry, I thought it was a great episode. It was a tense and interesting hour because I legitimately had no idea where they were going with the Sam being "dead" and Dead killing himself. It was well done and the pacing was very different for a MOTW episode.

It's kind of ridiculous that you think we should see the "Empty" though. Neither brother actually died so why exactly would we see the empty?

The point was to show us that Billie means it: no deals, no second chances, nothing. She was not willing to deal with Dean at all. And we know that's legit now.

[waynedeath1047]

Sorry, I thought it was a great episode. It was a tense and interesting hour because I legitimately had no idea where they were going with the Sam being "dead" and Dead killing himself. It was well done and the pacing was very different for a MOTW episode.

It's kind of ridiculous that you think we should see the "Empty" though. Neither brother actually died so why exactly would we see the empty?

The point was to show us that Billie means it: no deals, no second chances, nothing. She was not willing to deal with Dean at all. And we know that's legit now.

But we already saw that in the first episodes when Sam was sick with the virus. We didn't need to rehash her telling them it was all over. You're saying it wouldn't have been cool to see what "The Empty" had to offer, especially if it was the home to all dead angels and demons and otherwise? They keep talking about this place. I wouldn't be surprised if they somehow get trapped there at the end of the season somehow. I highly doubt that the entire DARKNESS storyline gets resolved by the end of the season.

[SuperSheltie]

My guess is getting trapped in the Empty. If this is where the angels and demons go when they die, having ALL of the regulars get stuck there would be interesting as a means of having interaction with multiple "dead people" kind of like old times.

[sino8r]

My guess is getting trapped in the Empty. If this is where the angels and demons go when they die, having ALL of the regulars get stuck there would be interesting as a means of having interaction with multiple "dead people" kind of like old times.

Of course it would've been great! I'd also have like to see what happened to Death or his history a bit more. Was he God's brother? A cousin? Just something... As much as they built his power and background up he deserves more mentions or something.

Also speaking of bad writing... The past episode (Hells Angel) was somewhat poorly written as well. Amara called Lucifer God's first son lol! We all know according to Jewish Christian lore that Lucifer was God's favorite and first, most powerful angel and that Michael was second. Supernatural reversed the lore making Michael the big brother and Lucifer the younger brother to fit with Sam and Deans alleged destiny back in season 5. Again the writers screwed up their own lore lol! Maybe this is an out for Lucifer to double cross Amara and a way to get Michael out of the cage? Claiming that she made a mistake and that Michael is the one she wants. Lucifer gets out of her torture and possibly has a chance for Michael to join the fight against Amara. This is probably not the case but maybe a way for God to finally show up?

[SuperSheltie]

There was something in the look that Amara was giving Lucifer before she started to smite him, when Dean cried out for Cas to cast out Lucifer. Obviously, Amara and Dean have a "connection" and she might save Cas for Dean, probably because she cares, but more likely that she will use this mercy as a means to further manipulate Dean.

I totally enjoyed the scene in Cas' "head" between Castiel, Crowley, and Lucifer (dang what an unexpected pleasure to see Mark P. again)....plot hole or no, this was an excellent episode.