View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Heart-breakingly Good

    4 21.05%
  • 9

    1 5.26%
  • 8

    2 10.53%
  • 7

    1 5.26%
  • 6

    2 10.53%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    3 15.79%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - It breaks my heart how bad Arrow has gotten

    6 31.58%
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  1. #16
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Liked scenes with Cupid (whole five minutes or so, wooow) and that they addressed her crazy love both to the Arrow and Deadshot. Amy Gumenick again gave really terrific performance - I wouldn't say, however, that she saved that episode for me, as there was not enough of her. I chuckled at her comment about Green Arrow's costume. She should, however, recognize "her lover", new costume, or not.

    It takes crazy to know crazy...

    It was not supposed to be funny, but that opening scene where Cupid shoots two arrows in two different direction was stupid, uncessary and it turns archery into a joke, which should never happen in the show like "Arrow". If they didn't put any accuracy to it at the beginning, I would give it pass (although it's hard to unseen certain things after you get some knowledge). But seriously, whose idea was THAT?! Poor graphic designers didn't even try to fit two arrows on different sides of the grip and those arrows appeared out of nowhere.

    Liked the scene when Green Arrow appears on the crime scene. I mean, it looked so ridiculus as if they couldn't decide - should he stay out of the sight of other cops or not? Is he a wanted man, or not? Does anoyone gives a damn about a vigilante being present on the crime scene? Ah, never mind, because there was around 25 second of a scene realizing my favorite trope A Cop & A Vigilante. One of last ones probably.

    Felicity's speech to Cupid was fine, the best part of the episode I would say (as the rest was predictable & random, and cosisted of all obligatory events/tropes - but that was to be expected). Interesting take to give Felicity a scene when she "negociates" with her. Cupid is really hard to be taken down by force - Oliver learned that hard way. While on rage she more like some dangerous element than anything else. People will probably criticize that so fragile looking woman took down both Diggle and Speedy. I would say that she used to be special ops, policewoman, then SWAT, then Sucide Squad, so she is more than skilled and capable. So, talking to Cupid - and that's what psychiatrists do while working with people dealing with trauma (and Cupid suffers from trauma after the deaths of her "lovers") - the whole treatment is based on talking with the patient. And since Carrie is very unstable when it comes to psychological make-up it was quite likely to make her back down that way (of course in that moment Dig and Speedy screwed everything up What would happen if in the struggle that switch was activated?).

    So was it Amanda Waller's fault again that Cupid was on loose? Need to check that part again, because I didn't really catch if they addressed or not how she got out of ARGUS custody.

    Olicity stuff... Ugh... It dragged too long, and it's hard to take all that parting of the ways seriously since they will be probably back together in a couple of episodes, or so. I think people who like Olicity will like it probably (?) as all of cliché & cheap drama scenes were included in the lines Oliver and Felicity exchanged. It was not as terribly bad as other Olicity stuff, it didn't tick me off - I just don't really care any more about romance in "Arrow". Was waiting for scenes with Cupid as it was the part which interested me the most.

    Still the most boring part were (sadly) flashbacks. #BringOrginalRecurveBow

    I very much enjoyed Lances scenes. Quentin opposing Darhk, Laurel in court. Those were good scenes. But They. Are. So. Dead. Because of that. x_x No matter who is gone it will be unfair, since they are the best part of the show. Now I wonder what Darhk is planning. Maybe he can still use his magic... Somehow? I half expected something like light on the corridor going out or something. #TheEndOFLancesIsNear

    Now a quick look on the list I posted a while back in Season 4 speculation topic.

    1. A scene with Cupid murdering some poor random couple, as the opening. CHECKED
    2. Olicity drama (Oliver cyring into Laurel's sleeve why he couldn't save his relationship) CHECKED, there was no Laurel - Felicity scene, just Felicity packing her things
    3. A scene with Cupid abducting a limo with some another unfortnate random couple. Team Arrow fails in stopping her Because of the Reasons. CHECKED
    4. Oliver goes to consult Doctor Pressnall about Carrie... Wait, it was cut out because here appears... No scene with Doctor Pressnall. I didn't manage to push my fan service to the show. I'm unhappy. I wrote a post on tumblr. Shouldn't that do?
    5. ...Olicity drama! CHECKED Honesly Diggle and Thea were annoying in this episode with their shipping. They should give Oliver and Felicity some space.
    6. An Ingenious Plan with fake wedding appears. Shortly before Oliver gets his ass kicked by Cupid and has another Nearly Death Experience, because she shots him with a poisonous arrow, enraged that he DARES to use Green Arrow's codename, pretending to be her late lover (the Arrow). CHECKED A bit differently but it was addressed in the episode. Nearly Death Experience appeared during the wedding scene. Cupid shoot Oliver with an arrow.
    7. Olicity drama. CHECKED
    8. A shot with Laurel in court (around 30 seconds, don't blink). CHECKED It was longer than 30 second, so yay for Quentin and Laurel and a Plot C being present after all!
    9. Olicity drama. CHECKED I don't believe that they are not going to be back together before this season ends.
    10. Confrontation in the church, Cupid is taken down by Dig and Thea, because there no train in proximity. Oliver and Felicity are too preoccupied with Olicity drama so they don't pay attention. Laurel whereabouts are unknown, as well as Captain's Lance. Later it turns out that Rip requited both of them to his crew, because he needed additional aid, and they had nothing to do in "Arrow" anyway. CHECKED So, a ball room not a church, Lances were busy, and that confrontation with Cupid didn't turn out as bad as I expected.

    Hope that Carrie will be back. Liked the last scene with her. Now they should send her for another treatment to St. Walker's. #BringBackDoctorPressnall #CupidIsNotStupidAndShootsMoreArrowsThanArrow

    No idea how I should vote. Let's say 5/10 for overall drama (+1 for Felicity's speech), 2/10 for island flashbacks, 11/10 for Lances & Darhk's subplot, 10/10 for Cupid, -2 for the lack of Doctor Pressnall, -1 for that stupid scene with two arrows. That gives 6.5/10. Fair I think.

    Okay, let's get back to watching "Daredevil" season 2...

  2. #17
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    JDBentz made this episode sound interesting yet by the sounds of things from others I'd say I'm happy not having watched the episode.
    Take Cupid scenes & Felicity's negotiating with her & Lances & Darhk, get rid of the rest and you are left with ~15 minutes of quite good material.

    If you don't find Cupid's character concept appealing then stick with Lances and that would be around ~8 minutes of fairly good material.

  3. #18
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    Ok so I went and actually rewatched the episode, to get a better picture of what's going on.

    For the Trial of the Centaury, with Damien Darhk and Laurel well that was done really well. I'm glad Laurel is finally getting some screen time and Darhk getting put away is shall we say going to make things interesting. Obviously we are not at the full blown trial yet, so there's no telling what is going to happen. Also this kind of reminded me of the earlier seasons of Arrow where there were more court room scenes.

    I had to chuckle when Darhk's lawyer brought up Diggle and Thea buying drugs. I bet they wish Oliver still had his Bratva connections. I still find it stupid for them removing Oliver of that rank and I guess it made him too murky for the people who like black and white heroes.

    The flashbacks got a little interesting since the Totem Baron Reiter found is the same one Darhk had but I'm hardly surprised. Since I figured that's how they were going to tie the flashbacks and present together. We can add this to the list of things, Oliver never mentioned. Speaking of Oliver I would really like him to get progressing to The Hood levels and really hope just because they have a season 5 they are not going to push that even longer. I was a bit disappointed he didn't take down both those guys himself.

    Entering the main bulk of this episode which is the Olicty stuff. Now when people say about the massive amounts of Olicty melodrama, how stupid Felicity taking down Cupid by love talk and how it's just a further example of Felicity being the prime star of the show , I don't blame them at all because it's all true. Also, I'm right there with getting out the pitch forks.

    However I've already been through my Felicty crucible after 1x06 ended because I nearly quit the show but refused to give up so I'm now going to look at this a little differently.

    Basically all the Olicty stuff throughout the episode doesn't matter. Yep you heard me, it's all to get the time filled so they could do the ending scene in The Base. This was the one main scene I have watched twice and it's mature.

    First, Felicity breaks up with him and this is not like the dumb ones in season 3 of shall we say 3x12 that reeks of stuffed melodrama.

    She flat out says despite loving Oliver Felicity can't be trust him because Felicity knows there will always be a part of him that is on the island and keeps secrets. At the end of 4x15 Felicity got a reality check when her fantasy version of Oliver got busted apart when realizing the truth of his character.

    With Oliver, now his wanting to get Felicity back and fooling himself even when she was ending things is not all that surprising when I think back to like season 1 with Laurel or Sara in season 2.

    I was just in complete shock when I heard Felicity mention not just Oliver's computer skills but in fact the hacking arrow from 1x01. Because those computer skills disappeared after 1x15 and I thought they were to never be seen again until this week's.

    There is another layer to this scene as well and one aimed at one direct fan base, the Olicty side of things.

    By having Felicity ending things and even pulling out from Team Arrow seemingly for good which as we've seen in the flash forward it sticks and really the only way to sell this. For me in this scene Felicty was the one who sounded like the side of the fan base who is fed up with Olicty and I could tell this by "her making references to Oliver's island self which is the Green Arrow side of things."

    Felicity mentioning the computer skills is again, saying that yes Oliver is not a compete "stupid idiot" and does in fact not need Felicity to help with tech. I have to wonder if the next episode or atleast in a following one we are going to see some of Oliver using those skills.

    So I'm not sure what the future of the next episode is going to bring or following but this is my thoughts on it.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 03-24-2016 at 06:10 PM.

  4. #19
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    There was a mention that Lyla as new ARGUS head let people off Squad if they worked off debt. Lyla obviously needs a new methodology.

  5. #20
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Entering the main bulk of this episode which is the Olicty stuff. Now when people say about the massive amounts of Olicty melodrama, how stupid Felicity taking down Cupid by love talk and how it's just a further example of Felicity being the prime star of the show , I don't blame them at all because it's all true. Also, I'm right there with getting out the pitch forks.
    Of course it was aimed to show how awesome is Felicity, disarming that crazy psychopatic serial killer only with words. BUT (absolutely no pun intended here) that scene worked for me. As I wrote in my post, it's highly unlike to take down someone like Cupid by force (means: crazy, and while on rage it was as if she had extra strength). But it's quite possible to neutralize someone like that, addressing to something which matters to him or her - here would be love. Yes, it's cheesy, it falls under all that love related tropes, but certainly worked in that paricular situation, given Cupid's background.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raissa View Post
    There was a mention that Lyla as new ARGUS head let people off Squad if they worked off debt. Lyla obviously needs a new methodology.
    Now that's cute. Seems that this plan worked up to the point it didn't.

    So they didn't consult Doctor Pressnall about the nature of Carrie's mental illness... Too bad.

  6. #21
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raissa View Post
    There was a mention that Lyla as new ARGUS head let people off Squad if they worked off debt. Lyla obviously needs a new methodology.
    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Now that's cute. Seems that this plan worked up to the point it didn't.

    So they didn't consult Doctor Pressnall about the nature of Carrie's mental illness... Too bad.
    My theory is Lyla just couldn't take it any more, listening to Dig's incessant shipping and shilling (bringing home his "work." as it were) and so she cut Carrie loose, told her about Olicity and was hoping Carrie could put an end to things (literally, of course). The working off the debt was just a cover story. Too bad Lyla's plan didn't work out better

  7. #22
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    Both Lances kicked butt in this episode. I could've done without that Olicity stuff dragging on endlessly, though I will admit that Emily looked mighty good in the white wedding dress. But please, end this Olicity madness for good. I want Arrow to be about vigilante stories, and not some annoying, love soapy drama.
    Last edited by TheSecretVampire; 03-24-2016 at 08:02 PM.

  8. #23
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I haven't been particularly crazy about Cupid as a villain on her own, mostly because she's essentially a proxy crazy villain on Arrow for Harley Quinn. I didn't mind her too much when she was part of the Suicide Squad but that too petered out on Arrow.

    She actually fit into this episode, was relevant and while still over the top did play a role in getting Olicity its last gasp in its current format. Yeah, Ollie was putting it all on the line because he knew this was his Hail Mary pass, his last-minute chance -- so he had to do it via those vows.

    It would have been cheesy if Felicity had bought it as-is, despite all the reasons she has not to. What is sad for them is that last episode really was the break-up and it's Ollie that was reluctant to admit that change in status. Ollie was in suspension of disbelief mode, while for Felicity the reality of it being truly over had sunk in.

    I suppose they had Felicity still try to work with the team aka why should the team be short-changed just because she and Ollie are on the outs, just so she wouldn't look like she had abandoned them abruptly. But -- if she had already known that it was over between her and Ollie, surely she would also realize that working with him on the team would be problematic. Which I'm guessing is why they showed her being extra snippy with him, so that everyone else knew something was up.

    But other than that, I don't think there really was any other avenue they could have gone. Ollie was going to give it one last chance to prove he deserved a second (third? fourth? fifth? ) chance, and Felicity could not let it slide that he didn't come clean with her sooner. I still have some sympathy for Ollie, but at this point I think re: heroes needing to make sacrifices, Felicity had slowly come to the conclusion similar to what people like Bruce/Batman have long known -- that, in order for a hero like GA to stay on task in his mission, loved ones become a vulnerability, distraction, risk etc. For Ollie this is his habit to default to his by-any-means mode from the island to prevail in his mission ... which includes lying.

    In the big picture sense, Ollie/GA needed to know that that suburban fantasy they had in the S4 premiere was just that -- a fantasy. They were both naive to think that Ollie could just set aside a vigilante life that had become a huge part of his identity, and that he could so simply set aside that life without consequences. The end of the engagement is one such consequence, a hard lesson that he must learn.

    I know, this ep was a whole lot of Olicity, but considering the operatic scale it had built up into -- was anyone really surprised that the fallout/implosion wouldn't been any less melodramatic?

    As for everything Lances, I'll just second what most people have said. Laurel took care of business at court, Quentin gave compelling testimony and, being a police captain, he would be the most credible. I'm surprised Ollie and Diggle conveniently forgot that time Thea bought a whole lot of keys of drugs -- the defence did their homework there.

    As for the whole theme of due process, as of this ep. Arrow is leaps and bounds ahead of its CW DC cousins. Flash's crew are still locking up metahumans with barely a peep about civil liberties. As least they had a discussion on Supergirl about it being 'Right or not?', thanks to Jimmy -- but they still throw their metas in secret cells, with MM being their latest 'What's habeas corpus?' guest.

    Darkh? He had a freaking preliminary hearing, had a chance to prove his innocence, the court found enough reason via Quentin's testimony to go forward to trial and (for the moment) he's actually in custody -- by law. Loved all the court scenes, the Law and Order fan in me was eating it up. And even Ollie recognized that the work Laurel was doing in court was more critical than having her just be extra body in the field.

    So, yes, while the Olicity-related melodrama was thick -- I expected it. And the ep. did accomplish a lot ... esp. if Darkh means to exact revenge on all things Lance and/or Queen.

  9. #24
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    I think one of the reasons I was able to give such a positive review is because, frankly, I haven't been here on the forums as much and during hiatuses even this place can get just a little poisonous regardless of your point of view. I've been guilty of doing this during hiatuses just as much as the rest of you. But its getting the point where one can barely enjoy anything if you come here and discuss the hell out of it. I watched Daredevil Season 2 and kept expecting a really horrible meeting between Elektra and Karen, but it didn't happen. I watch BvS tonight, and I think the only character I managed to connect with was Lex, and maybe Batman at times. That's really, really bad.

    Now, maybe I'm changing how I watch things because I'm looking at it not only from the point of view of being a fan, but from a storyteller's perspective as well as being someone who writes reviews on his own blog now and has to be a little more professional than I have been in reviews' past-

    Actually, I can't even say its that because I watched Episode 15 again last night and still found Felicity to be horrible in it. So clearly, to me, there is a difference between this episode and the others this season. So the only difference? I didn't spend a whole bunch of time on these forums beyond checking what was being said, barely commenting and discussing. That seems to have made a world of difference along with everything else...

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    I think one of the reasons I was able to give such a positive review is because, frankly, I haven't been here on the forums as much and during hiatuses even this place can get just a little poisonous regardless of your point of view. I've been guilty of doing this during hiatuses just as much as the rest of you. But its getting the point where one can barely enjoy anything if you come here and discuss the hell out of it. I watched Daredevil Season 2 and kept expecting a really horrible meeting between Elektra and Karen, but it didn't happen. I watch BvS tonight, and I think the only character I managed to connect with was Lex, and maybe Batman at times. That's really, really bad.

    Now, maybe I'm changing how I watch things because I'm looking at it not only from the point of view of being a fan, but from a storyteller's perspective as well as being someone who writes reviews on his own blog now and has to be a little more professional than I have been in reviews' past-

    Actually, I can't even say its that because I watched Episode 15 again last night and still found Felicity to be horrible in it. So clearly, to me, there is a difference between this episode and the others this season. So the only difference? I didn't spend a whole bunch of time on these forums beyond checking what was being said, barely commenting and discussing. That seems to have made a world of difference along with everything else...
    Yea I think I kind of did the same on only showing up every now and again. Or could be I don't even really see the point in getting over angry about Arrow anymore when it does go bad and this episode really wasn't.

    That is really bad on BvS movie. That's just straight out horrible but not surprising.

  11. #26
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I've largely steered clear of delving into Arrow spoilers, speculations esp this late into S4 precisely because I don't want external influences to affect how I may enjoy the last few eps of the season.

    I think I enjoyed SW: The Force Awakens a whole lot more, for example, because I basically refused to read/see/hear anything that would even hint at plot spoilers. I chose not to be spoiled. At all. I didn't want third-party opinions, rants etc. to influence my initial viewing of the film. The result? I enjoyed my first viewing of TFA immensely, knowing zero spoilers when I watched it

    I haven't gone to such extremes on Arrow, but I think I've enjoyed the second half of S4 more because I've sidestepped getting into speculations about it too much.

  12. #27
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    An interview with Amy Gumenick: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/03/2...e-story-impact

    Heh, I wonder why people react so negatively on Cupid. It's because mental heath issues are too disturbing to watch in the show like "Arrow" or what?

    As for the spoilers and speculations interfering how we view the tv show - totally true. I know that I enjoyed season 1 & 2 so much partially because I binge-watched season 1, and didn't read any spoilers about what is to come in season 2.
    Last edited by Amarice; 03-25-2016 at 03:59 AM.

  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    An interview with Amy Gumenick: http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/03/2...e-story-impact

    Heh, I wonder why people react so negatively on Cupid. It's because mental heath issues are too disturbing to watch in the show like "Arrow" or what?

    As for the spoilers and speculations interfering how we view the tv show - totally true. I know that I enjoyed season 1 & 2 so much partially because I binge-watch season 1, and didn't read any spoilers about what is to come in season 2.
    Indeed. I think I will stick with the general discussion and review threads. I'm not even gonna bother with the character threads anymore... the only two that are active in any fashion are the Felicity and Laurel ones, and all those are is constant sniping back and forth between Bkwurm1 and whoever has decided to take up the task of sparring with her. If I find something interesting I might share it in the speculation threads, or if something demands a response I might give it... But I think the days where I spend a lot of time going back and forth, debating pros and cons and the nitty-gritty of every single move made on the show and by the minds behind the show are done... because I was able to enjoy Arrow again. And I put enjoyment of my entertainment above heavy interaction about the storylines.

  14. #29
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    Cupid is a **** villain , and Felicity just saved the day by talking some cringey crap about love.

    I miss bad ass villains like Huntress.

  15. #30
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    This episode suffered the same fate as The Flash's Trajectory. Lowest rated episode in the show's history.

    And some might say it was well deserved.

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