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  • 10 - So good that I hope we get a Vixen series

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    2 11.11%
  • 8

    3 16.67%
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    2 11.11%
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  • 5

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  • 1 - That was it?!?

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  1. #46
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    My whole point was that she doesn't wait around for the deal breakers. She moves on.

    And their whole lives revolt around Oliver's work as the Arrow, both fully invested is a big deal. Also, they showed us how happy they were beyond Ivy Town. No need to imagine it.

  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    My whole point was that she doesn't wait around for the deal breakers. She moves on.

    And their whole lives revolt around Oliver's work as the Arrow, both fully invested is a big deal. Also, they showed us how happy they were beyond Ivy Town. No need to imagine it.
    She might not wait around but she knew the deal breaker existed and would most likely rear its ugly head. I have a hard time backing anybody that KNOWS there's a deal breaker even before getting involved in a relationship. Could Oliver have changed? Yes, but I don't get involved beforehand because then I want my “partner“ to change and that isn't going into a relationship with someone fairly.

  3. #48
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    She might not wait around but she knew the deal breaker existed and would most likely rear its ugly head. I have a hard time backing anybody that KNOWS there's a deal breaker even before getting involved in a relationship. Could Oliver have changed? Yes, but I don't get involved beforehand because then I want my “partner“ to change and that isn't going into a relationship with someone fairly.
    No rational person expects a deal breaker to happen. Like cheating. Or a partner committing a terrible crime.

    Who predicts a partner hiding a secret child?

    At the end of season 3 Oliver stopped keeping Felicity at arms length. He seemed to have FINALLY learned his lesson about turning to his teammates for help and for the first 7 1/2 episodes we saw that Oliver did open up and lean on Felicity and his friends and even in the crossover, his first instinct was to let her know once he knew what was going on. They had that pre conversation and even after Samantha's ultimatum he wanted to tell her, so when he ended up deciding to lie and keep a massive secret from Felicity, it was IMO regression from who he had become. As was not turning to her about other big things in his life. The two were tied up together and the reason why the first secret was so destructive because it created a pattern and redeveloped a habit of not turning to his partner and that is why she walked away. Because he wasn't being the man she thought he was with her.

    And of course people get involved with people that have behaviors that could be a deal breaker, until you are in a relationship, you don't know how it is going to go. Oliver once he decided he was going to be with Felicity was in a different place mentally and emotionally than when he was deliberately holding back. Both of them thought he would behave in an inclusive manner. And without Baby Mama's interference, chances are they both would have continued to be right.

    Felicity doesn't demand he tell her everything or run everything or plan by her; she clearly didn't know Oliver was going to offer to fight in Nyssa's place, but she did know that Oliver was prepared to go to extremes to stop Malcolm and save his sister. That was the important discussion. Felicity's deal breaker doesn't lie with Oliver being a open book, it's the huge stuff she requires to be a part of and secret child and Oliver making a decision that is going to influence Oliver's viewpoint likely on ANY CHILDREN in the future is a huge freaking deal.

    This is the man she is supposed to plan the rest of her life with and not only did he keep for months one of the biggest things ever in his life but he leaves her out of deciding if there is any place in THEIR lives for children. I do think William vs any child that Oliver could watch over full time come with different circumstances but deciding to send William off has major repercussions on many fronts to both Oliver's and Felicity's life WITH Oliver. Between the lies and shutting her out, yeah, deal breaker.

    It's something I'm pretty sure they will work out, but this is not how Felicity expected him to behave.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 03-03-2016 at 03:34 PM.

  4. #49
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    If cheating is a deal breaker then I don't date a cheater just like I don't date a liar if I lying is a deal breaker for me. That's why I find Felicity's behavior neither an appealing storyline to watch nor do I find it something to look up to and emolate by impressionable young women. That person may change but if their fault is such a big thing then I avoid getting into a relationship with them all together, and doing so anyway is expecting them to change which puts unfair pressure on the partner. Not only is there pressure to have the relationship work but also pressure on the partner not to relapse into an innate character trait.

    I'll admit that hiding a child from a partner is a big deal but Felicity calls him out for lying. It was convenient for the showrunners to have William be the lie Oliver was feeding Felicity but they would've went with just about any lie to break them up and instigate melodrama into the relationship so her deal breaker was Oliver's lying. Period. She's called him out on it time and time again and had all sorts of melodrama because of it that it has become the staple reason for the Olicity break up, regardless of what that lie was.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-04-2016 at 07:41 AM.

  5. #50
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    What a perfect example on the "Who is in the grave" thread of what I've been saying all along...

    Originally Posted by Shelby Kent OMG! Both?!?! You mean like Oliver cheats on Felicity with a menage-a-trois?? *squeals like an upset 14 year old girl*

    Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino
    OMG! S.K. .... that would be just wrong. Besides, just because Oliver cheated on Laurel with her sister, and probably the rest of Star City, there is nothing in Oliver's character to suggest he would do something like that. Except for maybe his sleeping with his father's mistress, but that could happen to anybody. Nope, Oliver would never do that to Felicity, Because and REASONS


    Must be S.K. as that naive 14 year old girl that wouldn't expect, or at least worry about, something like that happening LOOOONG before ever getting into a relationship with Oliver. It's not like Oliver never lied to Felicity, she just blindly started a relationship with him hoping and praying that he changed and he'd never do it again. BS.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-04-2016 at 12:26 PM.

  6. #51
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Oliver Queen in the present day is a vastly changed man from the selfish and thoughtless boy he'd been before the island. He cheated on Laurel left and right before the island, but since the island, he's not cheated on anyone with anyone. He grew up. Took responsibility for his actions. The closest thing to falling back to that cheating playboy was when he slept with Laurel even thought he knew Tommy still loved her. Even though it wasn't cheating, I think his action was terrible, and apparently so did Oliver and Laurel because they were so ashamed by what they did and Tommy's death that they vowed there could never be anything further between them.

    Oliver was a cheater but that's not who he is any more at all. It has nothing to do with his love for Felicity. Oliver was changed before he met her.


    I'll admit that hiding a child from a partner is a big deal but Felicity calls him out for lying. It was convenient for the showrunners to have William be the lie Oliver was feeding Felicity but they would've went with just about any lie to break them up and instigate melodrama into the relationship so her deal breaker was Oliver's lying. Period. She's called him out on it time and time again and had all sorts of melodrama because of it that it has become the staple reason for the Olicity break up, regardless of what that lie was.
    Felicity also call him out for not including her in big decisions or knowing how to lean on his partner, thus shutting her out. It was never just about lying.

    As I said in my previous post, she doesn't demand to know everything Oliver is doing. She had no complaints with him not telling her ahead of time his plan regarding Malcolm and Nyssa. He though did talk to everyone about the problem of Malcolm. He may have still gone his own way, but he didn't exclude her from knowing what was going on. He apparently lied about what the plan was but a short term secret plan to save Thea is vastly different than what Oliver lied about with William.

  7. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Oliver Queen in the present day is a vastly changed man from the selfish and thoughtless boy he'd been before the island. He cheated on Laurel left and right before the island, but since the island, he's not cheated on anyone with anyone. He grew up. Took responsibility for his actions. The closest thing to falling back to that cheating playboy was when he slept with Laurel even thought he knew Tommy still loved her. Even though it wasn't cheating, I think his action was terrible, and apparently so did Oliver and Laurel because they were so ashamed by what they did and Tommy's death that they vowed there could never be anything further between them.

    Oliver was a cheater but that's not who he is any more at all. It has nothing to do with his love for Felicity. Oliver was changed before he met her.


    Felicity also call him out for not including her in big decisions or knowing how to lean on his partner, thus shutting her out. It was never just about lying.

    As I said in my previous post, she doesn't demand to know everything Oliver is doing. She had no complaints with him not telling her ahead of time his plan regarding Malcolm and Nyssa. He though did talk to everyone about the problem of Malcolm. He may have still gone his own way, but he didn't exclude her from knowing what was going on. He apparently lied about what the plan was but a short term secret plan to save Thea is vastly different than what Oliver lied about with William.
    You mean that 1 relationship he was in with the only female on the island that it was taking him forever to get into bed with him? After that he didn't have any relationship before "meeting" Felicity, according to the flashbacks when he returned to Starling City. He did get stranded on the island because of his cheating and we haven't seen Oliver in many relationships between the "Queen's Gambit" going down and him officially meeting Felicity in season 1 (Shado and the Russian now in season 4, my memories failing me on this subject but maybe MacKenna as well) so when exactly did he become a "changed man" before meeting her?

    Felicity went into the relationship knowing who Oliver was and expected something different from him than he gave any other relationship before her. He WAS the type she wouldn't have put up with in a relationship before and decided to try anyway. Simple as that. Absolutely boring storyline and totally not surprised that it caused friction and melodrama to the point of them breaking up. It was preprogrammed (and not just from the showrunners but just about every showrunner and novel author anywhere in the world, sadly in RL there are women that cling on no matter what) long before Oliver asked her out on their first date.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-05-2016 at 10:54 AM.

  8. #53
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Let's see, I would also add that some characteristics that make Oliver poor husband/partner material, and which are obviously related either fully or in part to his lying, are: secretive nature and tendency to approach things from a go-it-alone perspective, as well as a kind of arrogance in which he feels like, for most situations, he knows what is best and therefore feels quite comfortable pursuing his own course without consulting others.

    This was the Oliver that Felicity met in S1 who returned from the island: he had decided on his own that he would honor his father by taking up the "famous" list and taking matters into his own hands, even though it meant operating outside of the law. It was fine to operate outside of the law b/c he knew best. It never entered his head to consult with anyone, such as his best friend Tommy or Moira or wise Walter Steel, about his discoveries about his father or his dilemma and decisions regarding what to do about this info.

    This is what he was involved in doing when he brought Felicity the shot-up laptop and of course lied to her about that. He partnered with Diggle to some extent only b/c Diggle pretty much forced it on him and b/c Oliver was able to appreciate that Diggle would be an asset and therefore it would be in Oliver's best interests to include Diggle. When Felicity agreed to help him in his personal crusade, including working within the confines of his chosen method of handling things (vigilantism), she was basically condoning Oliver's attitude and approach (secretiveness and arrogance).

    His secretive nature and natural assumption that he does not necessarily need to consult with anyone else is evident in how he chose to handle the Ras' situation. And then everyone was mad at him for lying, being secretive and non-collaborative, when that is what he has always done -- decided what is best without consulting others. Remember, in Oliver-world, Oliver knows that Oliver knows best.

    If he does consult others it is not b/c he feels they deserve to be consulted on the principle that they are partners who also have stakes in the situation and therefore merit consultation, but instead, b/c he decides it is a good idea to consult them (usually for strategic/tactical purposes). This is of course why he would not think to consult with Felicity about the situation he found himself in with Samantha (he decided Felicity had nothing of value to offer in this situation; why would he think about her rights? he doesn't see that she has rights that would supersede his right to decide what is best).

    His belief in his right to make decisions regarding what is best takes precedence over a more principled stance that would advocate for the position that others who are involved in and affected by a situation have the right to be made aware of the situation and should have some say-so in said-situation. This is also why he felt it was fine to propose to Felicity without telling her about William. Ironically, this is why, when Felicity did this very same thing -- (decided to go solely by her own judgment of what was best regarding whether Oliver needed to know [or not] that she had resumed working with team Arrow, rather than choosing to adhere to the principle that Oliver did have the right to know this information b/c they were in an intimate partnership) -- he didn't care that she lied to him and did not tell him: because that's basically how he too operates in the world; that's "normal" to him (He just wasn't able to make the connection that what did upset him [that he didn't know they weren't 'in the same place' in their relationship] occurred as a result of the fact that she lied [ie she did not communicate what was going on emotionally with herself...], and that's b/c he has a pretty low social/emotional IQ). In fact, to Oliver, evidence of such "normal" behavior on Felicity's part (her automatic assumption that she knew best whether or not to tell him about her team Arrow activities and was under no obligation to consider his position as an involved party in the scenario) just reinforces that she should understand why of course he would know best whether or not to tell her about the Samantha/William situation as well as about the decision to send William away (again, her rights to know do not supersede his right to know best; just as his right to know did not supersede her right to know best --- that's how things operate in Oliver-world, the right to know what is best always supersedes the rights of others, of course!)

    Basically, this is also who he was before the shipwreck. For how else would one characterize cheating on your girlfriend and sneaking off on a pleasure-cruise with said-girlfriend's sister? Such behaviors rest upon the foundation of the same traits of secretiveness and an arrogant belief in the supremacy of one's own right to decide what is to be done in a situation, along with a failure to subscribe to the belief that others who are affected by a situation have the right to information about the situation and a voice in the decisions (ie Laurel's right to know that Oliver did not see their relationship as bilaterally monogamous). The only thing that has really changed in Oliver with regard to his secretiveness and arrogance in the belief of the supremacy of his judgment is that he now employs those traits in service of a purpose that is larger than himself: to save his city. Whereas before, his secrecy and arrogance were used mainly in the service of pursuing his playboy activities.

    This is who Oliver was before his shipwreck, this is who he was when Felicity first met him, this is who he still is. Felicity knew this. She just had to be dumbed-down (from S1 version Felicity) to forget all this for purposes of the writers rushing into Olicity and trying to explain why she would ever go into a relationship with someone like this in the first place: one of those fairytale tropes, I suppose, where the princess kisses the ugly frog and he turns into Prince Charming, the dream of changing him so he will then be good boyfriend/husband material
    Last edited by Shelby Kent; 03-05-2016 at 01:42 PM.

  9. #54
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Preach and Amen to infinity!

  10. #55
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    Felicity even frowns upon Oliver jumping into bed with Isabel when she catches him, a typical trait of a cheater that he is still showing her. Oliver had the revelation that his cheating hurt people, Sara even "died" because of his cheating, but that didn't stop him from cheating, he just acknowledged it. Yes the show stopped showing Oliver actually cheating on somebody but that would be because the show would have to focus more on Oliver's love life than his journey to becoming the Green Arrow. IF this show would get 10 seasons and somewhere in season 5 or 6 Felicity and Oliver get back together for 1-2 seasons of blissful happiness then after those 1-2 seasons we'd see Oliver cheating on Felicity with somebody. That's who he is.

  11. #56
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    DoubleDevil;8153146]You mean that 1 relationship he was in with the only female on the island that it was taking him forever to get into bed with him? After that he didn't have any relationship before "meeting" Felicity, according to the flashbacks when he returned to Starling City. He did get stranded on the island because of his cheating and we haven't seen Oliver in many relationships between the "Queen's Gambit" going down and him officially meeting Felicity in season 1 (Shado and the Russian now in season 4, my memories failing me on this subject but maybe MacKenna as well) so when exactly did he become a "changed man" before meeting her?
    I said he was a changed man before he ever was in love with her, but yeah, I do think he was a changed man before he ever met her. Give me one example of him cheating since his he got on the Gambit with Laurel's sister. He dated Helena. Then he dated McKenna. He had one afternoon with Laurel. Then he was gone five months back to the island. He slept with Isabell. Then later had a relationship with Sara. They broke up. He told Felicity he loved her. He broke up with her before they ever finished their first date and then he was faithful to her even though they weren't even dating. (No, one forced marriage to a known lesbian does not count) Then they were together since. No cheating. Oliver hasn't cheated since the Gambit. The proof is in his actions.

  12. #57
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Felicity even frowns upon Oliver jumping into bed with Isabel when she catches him, a typical trait of a cheater that he is still showing her.
    She thought his choice of person to sleep with was awful. She literally points out how many million other women there were in Russia and why did he have to pick Isabel. Him sleeping with Isabell was dumb and icky (hello daddy's leftovers) but he wasn't cheating on anyone but his own self esteem.

    Yes the show stopped showing Oliver actually cheating on somebody but that would be because the show would have to focus more on Oliver's love life than his journey to becoming the Green Arrow
    The show went out of it's way to show that he WAS past tense a notorious serial cheater. (Sara said she and Laurel both knew of at least 10 times). His cheating past was a huge part of his back story. Since his return and in all the flashbacks, he has shown loyalty to the woman he is with. If he was still a cheater, they would have shown him cheating. Instead they showed him being monogamous to someone while she was dating someone else. Dude is no longer a cheater.

  13. #58
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Shelby Kent;8153163]Let's see, I would also add that some characteristics that make Oliver poor husband/partner material, and which are obviously related either fully or in part to his lying, are: secretive nature and tendency to approach things from a go-it-alone perspective, as well as a kind of arrogance in which he feels like, for most situations, he knows what is best and therefore feels quite comfortable pursuing his own course without consulting others.

    This was the Oliver that Felicity met in S1 who returned from the island: he had decided on his own that he would honor his father by taking up the "famous" list and taking matters into his own hands, even though it meant operating outside of the law. It was fine to operate outside of the law b/c he knew best. It never entered his head to consult with anyone, such as his best friend Tommy or Moira or wise Walter Steel, about his discoveries about his father or his dilemma and decisions regarding what to do about this info.
    Oliver came back from the "island" having learned the lesson that ultimately, he couldn't trust anyone so yeah, he was making all the decisions and not consulting others and that is something he has been gradually recovering from. By the end of season one, he was willing to rely on others to disarm the earthquake devices and the reason he was able to this time take down Malcolm was because he did not go up against him alone, he instead accepted when Diggle insist he go alone.

    Season two he started opening up and relying on others help and advice even more. He made the point that Diggle and Felicity were not his underlings but his partners. And yeah, Oliver still was bullheaded enough to try to hand himself over to Slade but his partners wouldn't let him and he stopped trying to solve the problem all on his own. He embraced help from Quentin and Sara and the LoA and trusted that Diggle would handle Argus and Waller and put their only way of defeating Slade in Felicity's hand.

    Season three was him realizing that he wasn't the only one that made decisions, which he accepted but he did still try to keep them out of the big plan only to once again realize that he couldn't do it without his team. And then he turned all the decision making of how to keep the city safe over to the ones remaining.

    Oliver is learning and changing and adapting. And yes, regressing and relearning some points that we thought he'd already grasped and by the end of season three, he has acted in a way that seems to say he's mastered the "don't keep your team in the dark about mission related stuff" He was open and consulted them, turned to them for advice or at least let them know what he was doing.

    Where he's faltered is on the personal side and even with that we know he WANTED to share the secret, just that for some F'd up reason convinced himself he couldn't, not that he didn't know she should know.

    This is what he was involved in doing when he brought Felicity the shot-up laptop and of course lied to her about that. He partnered with Diggle to some extent only b/c Diggle pretty much forced it on him
    No, Oliver brought Diggle in by his choice. Having to save him from Deadshot's bullet sped up the process, but he told Diggle he was already looking to include him and later he told both Felicity and Diggle that he'd vetted them before he brought them in. He wasn't forced.

    When Felicity agreed to help him in his personal crusade, including working within the confines of his chosen method of handling things (vigilantism), she was basically condoning Oliver's attitude and approach (secretiveness and arrogance).
    From the public. She questioned him on actions and choices she didn't agree with. He was able to reassure her that he would act in a manner that she would find acceptable. (didn't kill without good reason)

    His secretive nature and natural assumption that he does not necessarily need to consult with anyone else is evident in how he chose to handle the Ras' situation. And then everyone was mad at him for lying, being secretive and non-collaborative, when that is what he has always done -- decided what is best without consulting others. Remember, in Oliver-world, Oliver knows that Oliver knows best.
    In the past Oliver learned that he had to be secretive and yes, he thought he knew best and realized in the end, that no, his plan didn't work all on his own and he instead had to bring his team in on the plan to succeed. He learned in his time on the island that he had to do it all on his own and now back on town he has been learning a better way. Again, on a professional (Arrow business) level, he hasn't been doing it all on his own. And with the exception of Baby Mama, he's not been secretive or arrogant in the least.
    If he does consult others it is not b/c he feels they deserve to be consulted on the principle that they are partners who also have stakes in the situation and therefore merit consultation, but instead, b/c he decides it is a good idea to consult them (usually for strategic/tactical purposes). This is of course why he would not think to consult with Felicity about the situation he found himself in with Samantha (he decided Felicity had nothing of value to offer in this situation; why would he think about her rights? he doesn't see that she has rights that would supersede his right to decide what is best).
    Based on what? I've not seen anything that supports this mentality. Pure opinion.
    His belief in his right to make decisions regarding what is best takes precedence over a more principled stance that would advocate for the position that others who are involved in and affected by a situation have the right to be made aware of the situation and should have some say-so in said-situation. This is also why he felt it was fine to propose to Felicity without telling her about William.
    I saw his proposal prompted by not only knowing that he and Felicity were absolutely on the same page with what they wanted in life, but also him grabbing something good and precious that was right there in front of him after he'd almost watched her die. I don't think he was thinking about William at all.

    Oliver is very good at compartmentalizing. That is great when it comes to keeping his focus but in the case of actually marrying someone, yeah, he needed to open up those compartments and let them mingle. He was a dumbass but I don't think arrogance was his motivating force - his hope was that Samantha would relent and he'd be able to tell. He was ignoring a problem in the hopes it would just work itself out. He didn't so much believe that he knew best but acted like he had no clue what to do, so he did nothing and kept going forward with the life he wanted. Not because he didn't think she should know or because he didn't want her to know, but because in his misguided assessment, it was something he couldn't share so in his head, it was a separate issue.
    Ironically, this is why, when Felicity did this very same thing -- (decided to go solely by her own judgment of what was best regarding whether Oliver needed to know [or not] that she had resumed working with team Arrow, rather than choosing to adhere to the principle that Oliver did have the right to know this information b/c they were in an intimate partnership) --
    I don't equate helping their friends fight crime with hiding secret boy child. Not even close.

    ]why of course he would know best whether or not to tell her about the Samantha/William situation as well as about the decision to send William away (again, her rights to know do not supersede his right to know best; just as his right to know did not supersede her right to know best --- that's how things operate in Oliver-world, the right to know what is best always supersedes the rights of others, of course!)
    Per the stupid show reasoning it wasn't Oliver deciding he knew best that superseded Felicity's right to know, it was Samantha's ultimatum. It was him for some asinine reasoning agreeing that Samantha knew best. Still stupid, still wrong, but not born out of arrogance.

    Basically, this is also who he was before the shipwreck. For how else would one characterize cheating on your girlfriend and sneaking off on a pleasure-cruise with said-girlfriend's sister? Such behaviors rest upon the foundation of the same traits of secretiveness and an arrogant belief in the supremacy of one's own right to decide what is to be done in a situation, along with a failure to subscribe to the belief that others who are affected by a situation have the right to information about the situation and a voice in the decisions (ie Laurel's right to know that Oliver did not see their relationship as bilaterally monogamous). The only thing that has really changed in Oliver with regard to his secretiveness and arrogance in the belief of the supremacy of his judgment is that he now employs those traits in service of a purpose that is larger than himself: to save his city. Whereas before, his secrecy and arrogance were used mainly in the service of pursuing his playboy activities.
    Cheating is also wrapped up in basic selfishness and lack of respect and the big one, someone that doesn't hold themselves accountable for their actions. Oliver is the opposite of that now.


    This is who Oliver was before his shipwreck, this is who he was when Felicity first met him, this is who he still is. Felicity knew this. She just had to be dumbed-down (from S1 version Felicity) to forget all this for purposes of the writers rushing into Olicity and trying to explain why she would ever go into a relationship with someone like this in the first place: one of those fairytale tropes, I suppose, where the princess kisses the ugly frog and he turns into Prince Charming, the dream of changing him so he will then be good boyfriend/husband material
    [

    Oliver is not the same loner, killer, PTSD ridden, waiting in the dark to die alone, man. He has changed, or at least the Oliver Queen on the show I'm watching has. He proved that he wasn't ready for marriage in as much as he still has not learned to lean on his partner about the really complicated stuff. It was a deal breaker but otherwise he was stellar boyfriend material.

    At least to Felicity.

  14. #59
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    She thought his choice of person to sleep with was awful. She literally points out how many million other women there were in Russia and why did he have to pick Isabel. Him sleeping with Isabell was dumb and icky (hello daddy's leftovers) but he wasn't cheating on anyone but his own self esteem.
    He had no idea about Isabel's connection to his dad and it's about as dumb as any other one night stand would be. Felicity had no leg to stand on with her judgement.
    The show went out of it's way to show that he WAS past tense a notorious serial cheater. (Sara said she and Laurel both knew of at least 10 times). His cheating past was a huge part of his back story. Since his return and in all the flashbacks, he has shown loyalty to the woman he is with. If he was still a cheater, they would have shown him cheating. Instead they showed him being monogamous to someone while she was dating someone else. Dude is no longer a cheater.
    Not cheating and loyalty aren't the same thing. He has little loyalty as a person to anyone, but himself. The guy needs God and Jesus Christ for certain.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
    Last edited by Dagenspear; 03-07-2016 at 11:19 AM.

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    [=
    It has nothing to do with his love for Felicity. Oliver was changed before he met her.

    I said he was a changed man before he ever was in love with her, but yeah, I do think he was a changed man before he ever met her. Give me one example of him cheating since his he got on the Gambit with Laurel's sister. He dated Helena. Then he dated McKenna. He had one afternoon with Laurel. Then he was gone five months back to the island. He slept with Isabell. Then later had a relationship with Sara. They broke up. He told Felicity he loved her. He broke up with her before they ever finished their first date and then he was faithful to her even though they weren't even dating. (No, one forced marriage to a known lesbian does not count) Then they were together since. No cheating. Oliver hasn't cheated since the Gambit. The proof is in his actions.
    Since you've retconned (or elaborated) your comment we'll go with that. Oliver's relationship with Helena lasted about 3 weeks (3 consecutive episodes) and unless the show had continually shown Oliver flirting with women and hanging out in bars it would be hard to integrate a cheating storyline without it becoming the main focus of that particular episode. McKenna he dated for a couple of months and while they could've very easily had Oliver cheat on her with Laurel the showrunners got more drama out of Tommy catching them than they could if McKenna had caught them even if it wasn't actually cheating on anybody. Isabell was a one-night stand and while season 2 did start focusing more on relationships the backstory between Oliver, Laurel and Sara already had his cheating constantly in the minds of viewers already the entire time he was with Sara so there really wasn't a reason to show it happening again. As Dagenspear said, not cheating doesn't have to mean being faithful, it just means he didn't get into bed with another woman for whatever reasons.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    She thought his choice of person to sleep with was awful. She literally points out how many million other women there were in Russia and why did he have to pick Isabel. Him sleeping with Isabell was dumb and icky (hello daddy's leftovers) but he wasn't cheating on anyone but his own self esteem.
    Cheating is a self-destructive behavior, one is risking being caught which would ruin/destroy a relationship one is already in which isn't just destructive to the partner but to oneself as well even if that is what the cheater is looking for. If I can't understand why somebody would date/sleep with a particular person then that isn't a person I'd want to date due to that persons poor judgement. Now if I can figure out some sort of explanation for the lapse in judgement (which Felicity didn't seem to do) then I can overlook it and try dating the person.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    The show went out of it's way to show that he WAS past tense a notorious serial cheater. (Sara said she and Laurel both knew of at least 10 times). His cheating past was a huge part of his back story. Since his return and in all the flashbacks, he has shown loyalty to the woman he is with. If he was still a cheater, they would have shown him cheating. Instead they showed him being monogamous to someone while she was dating someone else. Dude is no longer a cheater.
    The show went out of its way to flesh out the relationship between Laurel, Oliver and Sara which included Oliver cheating on Laurel with Sara and the showrunners added another affair with Samantha in order for later melodrama for any relationship Oliver would be in when they finally decided to introduce William. The line about Sara and Laurel knowing Oliver cheated at least 10 times isn't going out of their way and the rest all had a valid point in the story without them going out of their way but rather using the most opportune time to bring it up.

    The flashbacks would go back to the relationships Oliver had before meeting Felicity and we have Shado and Taiana. Shado was pretty much the only woman on the island so who was Oliver going to cheat on her with? Slade? Doubtful Oliver could've gotten Sara back into bed when she arrived on the island so shortly after the Gambit sinking. Taiana I haven't seen anything leading me to believe they actually have a romantic relationship going on between the two of them, they might be sharing a bed but that isn't anything more than carnal lust anyway and really there's little reason to cheat on that.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-07-2016 at 02:51 PM.

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