View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - So good that I hope we get a Vixen series

    5 27.78%
  • 9

    2 11.11%
  • 8

    3 16.67%
  • 7

    2 11.11%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    2 11.11%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    2 11.11%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - That was it?!?

    2 11.11%
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  1. #31
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Well, I never understood why a woman Felicity's age (or a man for that matter) wouldn't know that if you need someone to change so that you can be in a relationship with them, then you have no business trying to be in a relationship with them in the first place. You shouldn't go into a relationship seeing your partner as a "fixer upper." You're just asking for problems.

    Felicity has always known who Oliver is. In fact, that's what I liked so much about the S1 version of Felicity -- she knew he was full of BS. Somehow, she lost sight of that and seemed to latch on to a dream of him becoming someone else and I feel like I've been watching either an attempt at a fairytale, or a teenage girl's romance with the rebellious teenage bad boy who has some problems that are SERIOUS enough that it's pretty obvious he won't be good boyfriend material for YEARS to come, if ever. And Oliver played his part in the delusion as well by going along with it.

    Breaking up is the most sensible thing these characters could do. They're just not suited for each other. Never have been. Just as Lyla is a good partner for Dig b/c they both have shared worldviews related to their work experiences and lifestyles, I think Sara was a better fit for Ollie in terms of understanding who he is b/c of their shared experiences and backgrounds, and he needs someone more like that. Felicity would be better matched with a different guy as well, such as Ray for instance.

    The best thing this show can do is give Olicity a nice memorial service and a proper and permanent burial (no visits to the relationship Lazarus Pit). Oliver doesn't need the Felicity-is-my-guiding-light as his motivating force for his mission anymore. Now that he has sacrificed a relationship with his son, and by default his son is being forced to sacrifice having a father present in his life during some pretty formative years, that should be enough motivation to spur Oliver on -- otherwise, the sacrifice is just a tragic waste; so he needs to make it count. Plus, the "big death" (if it's really all that Guggie et al. have hyped it up to be) should also give Oliver a reason to go on with his mission. The sacrifice of a relationship with his son, his son's sacrifice of not having a father for all of his childhood, and the death of (Quentin, Laurel, Dig or Thea) can all be driving forces for Oliver to go forth with his mission with the goal and motivation to make a difference as a way to honor these losses/sacrifices. So there's really not even any need anymore to cling to the old Felicity-is-Oliver's-guiding-light rationale that IMO so weakened the foundations of the idea that we were supposed to be watching a hero on his journey and therefore, no need for Olicity to exist in order for the hero to do what needs to be done.

  2. #32
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Well, I never understood why a woman Felicity's age (or a man for that matter) wouldn't know that if you need someone to change so that you can be in a relationship with them, then you have no business trying to be in a relationship with them in the first place. You shouldn't go into a relationship seeing your partner as a "fixer upper." You're just asking for problems.

    Felicity has always known who Oliver is. In fact, that's what I liked so much about the S1 version of Felicity -- she knew he was full of BS. Somehow, she lost sight of that and seemed to latch on to a dream of him becoming someone else and I feel like I've been watching either an attempt at a fairytale, or a teenage girl's romance with the rebellious teenage bad boy who has some problems that are SERIOUS enough that it's pretty obvious he won't be good boyfriend material for YEARS to come, if ever. And Oliver played his part in the delusion as well by going along with it.

    Breaking up is the most sensible thing these characters could do. They're just not suited for each other. Never have been. Just as Lyla is a good partner for Dig b/c they both have shared worldviews related to their work experiences and lifestyles, I think Sara was a better fit for Ollie in terms of understanding who he is b/c of their shared experiences and backgrounds, and he needs someone more like that. Felicity would be better matched with a different guy as well, such as Ray for instance.

    The best thing this show can do is give Olicity a nice memorial service and a proper and permanent burial (no visits to the relationship Lazarus Pit). Oliver doesn't need the Felicity-is-my-guiding-light as his motivating force for his mission anymore. Now that he has sacrificed a relationship with his son, and by default his son is being forced to sacrifice having a father present in his life during some pretty formative years, that should be enough motivation to spur Oliver on -- otherwise, the sacrifice is just a tragic waste; so he needs to make it count. Plus, the "big death" (if it's really all that Guggie et al. have hyped it up to be) should also give Oliver a reason to go on with his mission. The sacrifice of a relationship with his son, his son's sacrifice of not having a father for all of his childhood, and the death of (Quentin, Laurel, Dig or Thea) can all be driving forces for Oliver to go forth with his mission with the goal and motivation to make a difference as a way to honor these losses/sacrifices. So there's really not even any need anymore to cling to the old Felicity-is-Oliver's-guiding-light rationale that IMO so weakened the foundations of the idea that we were supposed to be watching a hero on his journey and therefore, no need for Olicity to exist in order for the hero to do what needs to be done.
    So...... I can put you down as undecided on Olicity then????

  3. #33
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Well, I never understood why a woman Felicity's age (or a man for that matter) wouldn't know that if you need someone to change so that you can be in a relationship with them, then you have no business trying to be in a relationship with them in the first place. You shouldn't go into a relationship seeing your partner as a "fixer upper." You're just asking for problems.
    I still feel that Oliver's behavior in hiding William from Felicity was not who he was anymore nor was it how he behaved in his relationship with Felicity. They were both remarkably open and rational and actually talked through things. It was behavior that I find forced and contrived but be that as it may, in show, it happened. And because Felicity found out that he was actually still capable of acting in a manner that she didn't think he would and it was behavior that she could not live with, she broke up with him.

    I personally don't think it's the end of their road. It is behavior that Oliver can identify and change and not because she wants him to change but because it is behavior that makes having a real relationship impossible in the long run. Unless Oliver is open to having someone who is only half there so it's shallow on both sides, then this is something HE needs to work on for his future happiness.

    And otherwise we saw that Oliver and Felicity were extremely happy with one another. What we saw were two very well suited individuals. The reason why IMO Sara and Oliver were never meant to last was they were too much alike. They emphasized each other's strengths but they also doubled down together on their weaknesses. They didn't compliment each other so in the end, they were weaker, not stronger. Maybe Oliver could get by without someone to help him focus on his light but Sara still deserves to find someone that supports her in that way and if Oliver can barely do it for himself, then Sara would be out of luck. They will always be great companions that are deeply bonded and love each other, but that doesn't mean they are good for each other in that way. That's why she left.

  4. #34
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    JD, that is what I thought too. I figured that Samantha had some off-screen discussion with Ollie about what was happening re: their exile and they were already on their way, which was before he recorded his message to William.

    As for everything that transpired re: Ollie lying/concealing the truth (again, the same thing in my books), I feel it was worse that Ollie wasn't the one who told Felicity first -- it's a moot point when exactly he would have decided to tell her this, whether he did it the night he found out, 2 days later, 2 weeks, 2 months later etc. The whole "time to process" side issue pretty much expired the moment William was on Malcolm's radar and by the time Thea figured it out that meant an inner circle member now discovered it and he'd really have to scramble for justification to still keep Felicity his fiancee out of the loop.

    It's the fact that he didn't, chose not to and she had to find out indirectly ... and even from a friend or teammate but via Darkh no less. It would still be bad had he told her first, but at least he would have manned up enough to make that admission to her directly instead of her finding out from a mortal enemy.

    I basically think after this episode he allowed that lying/concealing the truth option to linger and linger far too long until he ran out of time to linger -- and he couldn't deny it once Darkh forced it out in the open.

    That's not to say that Ollie's non-normal vigilante life and public persona didn't give him any reasons to act the way he did. He's not a "normal" person and wasn't going to react as a normal person -- but at minimum it demonstrates that he didn't learn a whole lot over the past 3+ years about the consequences of secrets and lies.

    Whether his choice re: William is best for the kid is something we may not really know -- it'll essentially happen off-screen years later (barring some LOT/Flash timeline jumping?).

    Samantha's ultimatum won't make complete sense, it being placed there primarily as an Olicity wedge issue. In this sense it delivered in spades, logic be damned.

    But I do think the issue of William in Ollie's life is a discussion that really only requires Ollie and Samantha's consent -- they are his parents and regardless of the admittedly crappy way their union produced the kid (Ollie being unfaithful to Laurel with Samantha being a party to it), it doesn't invalidate Ollie or Samantha having a say in it.

    Felicity did deserve to be at least in the loop of what was going on at some point, just on the principle she was going to be Ollie's future wife and we can only presume she'd be a presence in William's life. From her perspective, Ollie choosing not to tell her and not considering any input from her represented his lack of trust -- which naturally would make her question Ollie's commitment to her. Again, I don't see it as his needing her permission -- he didn't -- but only as Ollie giving his fiancee and future wife(!) the courtesy of some input that he could weigh, accept or even reject. Not her son, not her call -- but at least he'd have that discussion. (The more involved she became in William's life as he grew up, we can only speculate about it here, the more "say" she'd be entitled to have.)

    Ironically, her removing the ring essentially means long-term is for now off the table and add to that Felicity's wish for a break -- this means Ollie (as bad as the behaviour might seem from him with all that's already happened) no longer has to confide in her to the same degree he'd be expected to were she still his fiancee.

    Where I land is that Felicity needed to heed some of the advice she herself gave to Donna -- and Ollie needs to heed some of the words he shared with Quentin. Won't lionize or condemn either of them without reservation. Both need to meet halfway. If neither can do that and get stuck in chronic "But-I'm-right!"-itis then Olicity will truly be in the grave and they have only themselves to blame.

    Olicity (the shipper catering version that spun out from S2 through to Taken) is "dead" in the sense that there's really no going back and I don't think anyone wants to return to this level of melodrama going forward in the series. It's happened, they delivered on it, and as a viewer I'm ready for whatever Olicity 2.0 evolves into (anything from reconciliation and marriage, a return to a more platonic status, or an official break-up) to be just one of melodrama subplots that occurs and not consume the series' -- and writers'(!) -- attention and effort the way it once did.

    Maybe now that their heartstrings have been yanked out, we can finally see a little bit more of that *cough* character development *cough* we've been missing from them as independent lead characters. I for one am hoping the show seizes this brief window where they're out of the shipper bubble to do just that.

  5. #35
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    ]The fact that Oliver can't bring lawyers in is exactly the reason he does have to concede to Samantha's demands. Even with how much the writers have dumbed down his character he could foresee what Dhark would do if the truth about William came to light, thus he is forced to come to an arrangement with Samantha, who has all the power and is able to set her terms, however, unreasonable.
    There's two issues. Oliver is not forced into anything because there is no way that Samantha would ever know if he'd told Felicity or his team. The second issue is if he could bring in lawyers. WE know and OLIVER knows he shouldn't do that but Samantha has no reason to think he couldn't bring in lawyers.


    Which scenario do you think will bring Oliver more favor from the judge; A) him having a history of failing to live up to custody agreements and trying to lie and hide things from the mother of his child or, B) Oliver having stuck to the agreement that was made in spite of its unfairness and in doing so bring pain and strife onto himself all in the interest of doing right by his kid.
    One parent after having lied and concealed even the existence of the child making demands that amounted to blackmail and extortion is not a custody agreement that the judge would even consider as having bearing on any future legal decisions unless it was used against Samantha for issuing it in the first place.

    Plus the whole point is that Oliver could have told Felicity and his team and neither Samantha nor any hypothetical judge would find out. And if we are looking at the best interests of the child, then Oliver not telling his team - the ones that could have actually done something to keep the kid safe - was not in the best interests of William.






    No promises were broken, that is not relying on technicalities, it is outright fact.


    Samantha said don't tell anyone and Oliver didn't. He lied to Barry about the intent of the test and Barry guessed anyways, Thea found out with his help as did Malcolm.
    I disagree. When Thea found out he could have denied it. He could have made up another lie. He could have planted evidence or manipulated records. He instead confirmed she was right and then freely talked about it with her. He told her. Barry as well. Barry only knew that he'd done a DNA test on some mystery kid. He had no way of knowing who William was unless Oliver filled him in on the details. The fact that Barry was able to direct Samantha to Oliver proves he was told. Malcolm is not someone who was told but the second Oliver knew Malcolm knew, he should have worked to keep William safe. Oliver tried framing keeping the secret as keeping William safe but knowing Malcolm knew about him -dude who just vowed to ruin your life by hurting those around you- he broke the very intent of his so called promise.

    He chose his secret over the safety of his child. He chose the letter of the directive over the spirit. So not only did he break his promise twice with Thea and Barry, he then broke the bigger spirt and intent of the promise, more concerned with not telling than keeping William safe.

    But good for him for not telling the one person that even now could hide William best from the electronic trail he and his mother are currently leaving just by living. Why the hell should she ever be consulted?
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 02-27-2016 at 06:04 PM.

  6. #36
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Olicity (the shipper catering version that spun out from S2 through to Taken) is "dead" in the sense that there's really no going back and I don't think anyone wants to return to this level of melodrama going forward in the series.
    Season three was chocked full of melodrama because they were keeping Oliver and Felicity apart. Most of season four was melodrama free...except for the parts setting up Oliver and Felicity not being together. Does anyone really think that keeping Oliver and Felicity apart is going to result in LESS melodrama when for the last two years the show has taught us the opposite?

  7. #37
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    You shouldn't go into a relationship seeing your partner as a "fixer upper." You're just asking for problems.
    I heard that in marriage, men want women to love them as they are, while women want to change men for the better (I guess according to the wife's eyes?). Don't know if that's a maxim, sage advice or Cosmo factoid claptrap, but it totally sounds like Olicity as it stood at the "break".

    Felicity has always known who Oliver is. In fact, that's what I liked so much about the S1 version of Felicity -- she knew he was full of BS. Somehow, she lost sight of that and seemed to latch on to a dream of him becoming someone else and I feel like I've been watching either an attempt at a fairytale, or a teenage girl's romance with the rebellious teenage bad boy who has some problems that are SERIOUS enough that it's pretty obvious he won't be good boyfriend material for YEARS to come, if ever. And Oliver played his part in the delusion as well by going along with it.
    Yeah, I miss the Felicity who called Ollie on his crap back in S1, untainted by shipper demands and expectations. I really hope Olicity has left their high school cafeteria dramatics behind as of this ep. When SV's Lana rode off with red-krypto Clark on his motorcycle in S2 the lesson I got was that good girls love bad boys. Thanks, The WB. Ollie didn't have a bike or krypto-rage ... but he did wear leather, possess a mysteriously sketchy past, have tattoos and dangerous scars. Stick him on a salmon ladder -- and Felicity didn't have a chance.

    Oliver doesn't need the Felicity-is-my-guiding-light as his motivating force for his mission anymore. Now that he has sacrificed a relationship with his son, and by default his son is being forced to sacrifice having a father present in his life during some pretty formative years, that should be enough motivation to spur Oliver on -- otherwise, the sacrifice is just a tragic waste; so he needs to make it count. Plus, the "big death" (if it's really all that Guggie et al. have hyped it up to be) should also give Oliver a reason to go on with his mission. The sacrifice of a relationship with his son, his son's sacrifice of not having a father for all of his childhood, and the death of (Quentin, Laurel, Dig or Thea) can all be driving forces for Oliver to go forth with his mission with the goal and motivation to make a difference as a way to honor these losses/sacrifices. So there's really not even any need anymore to cling to the old Felicity-is-Oliver's-guiding-light rationale that IMO so weakened the foundations of the idea that we were supposed to be watching a hero on his journey and therefore, no need for Olicity to exist in order for the hero to do what needs to be done.
    I never really bought Ollie ceding his motivation for his mission to Felicity as their ship accelerated from S2 on. The dude seemed to motivate himself just fine from S1-S2. I acknowledge Felicity's role in perhaps giving him a nudge (along with the nudges of other teammates -- Diggle, Thea, Roy, Laurel) in a more positive direction -- but that's it. The show largely talked the talked re: Felicity as his primary "inspiration" to be something else, sunnier, less gloomy etc. but its character development-wise where they were mostly lacking in walking the walk. Didn't like that this also undercut the efforts of other teammates, some of whom did profound things that cannot be repaid (Roy's claiming the Arrow ID/its sins and fake death).

    I think Ollie facing sacrifices, working through them and even failing beneath the weight of them at times will serve him well on his hero's journey. It shouldn't be a cakewalk -- he will have defeats, lose people. If by end of S4 we see some of this, then Ollie will be further on his way to his destiny.

  8. #38
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Season three was chocked full of melodrama because they were keeping Oliver and Felicity apart. Most of season four was melodrama free...except for the parts setting up Oliver and Felicity not being together. Does anyone really think that keeping Oliver and Felicity apart is going to result in LESS melodrama when for the last two years the show has taught us the opposite?
    The way I see the Olicity melodrama -- at least the initial phase where the show decided to commit to it from S2-now -- includes all the ups, downs, missed opportunities, successes and failures, "breaks" and not just when they were officially a couple. So for me, Olicity has been at it since S2 and they've been building up that melodrama to now. I will say that Olicity was at its more tolerable phase in S4 when it was (in hindsight, unrealistically, considering Ollie's trust issues) blissful and without much tension. I see it more as the S4 melodrama plateau-ing, not in your face like S3 -- but not absent either. It was lurking, like a shark. That shark bit the whole series in the keester the moment the crossovers plunged Ollie and Felicity back into secrets, lies and trust issues. Contrived? Yes. Intentional? Yes indeed. In general terms, this was in the cards since Samantha went into exile the first time.

    With the ring off, the version of Olicity as it stood from its S2 birth is no more. It won't reboot to the identical version of itself again, not after Taken.

    Doesn't mean it's dead in the permanent sense, only that it's now in some form of holding pattern and I'm expecting it could evolve into something else. Like waiting for new Windows updates to download.

    I'm cautiously optimistic that Olicity and the related melodrama won't reach such operatic levels again as with the secret son snafu. In other words, I don't want to them to try to top it in scale. They did it once with the baby mama drama, series quota filled.

    All this (a tolerable, less angst-ridden Olicity) hinges on if both of them adhere to some common sense and don't dig in their heels. Indiana Jones making that leap of faith in The Last Crusade comes to mind. As a viewer, I'm hoping there actually is a foot bridge there when I take that step. Don't let us down, post-Taken (more mature?) Olicity 2.0.

  9. #39
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    So...... I can put you down as undecided on Olicity then????


    Oh, I have no doubt, Felicity will be marching back into Ollie's abode soon, like a determined teenage girl, tape measure and toolbox in hand, ready to attempt some more repairs as she tries her best to make over Ollie to meet her fantasy-guy specifications ... I mean, this is the CW, what do I expect. But I can wish that she actually puts her money where her mouth is and moves on with her life. Meanwhile, I think they should keep Ollie single or if he must have a relationship then bring back someone like McKenna, who I also felt was a better match for him. I just hope poor Diggle (assuming he survives) gets to keep a little dignity and doesn't get totally loaded down with shipping duties.

    Meanwhile I wonder if we'll have to go through another round of all the characters telling the audience and Oliver how great and brave and strong Felicity is

  10. #40
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    With the ring off, the version of Olicity as it stood from its S2 birth is no more. It won't reboot to the identical version of itself again, not after Taken.

    Doesn't mean it's dead in the permanent sense, only that it's now in some form of holding pattern and I'm expecting it could evolve into something else. Like waiting for new Windows updates to download.
    Or as I like to think of it, like a mutant strain of pathogenic bacteria, lying in wait, quiet and dormant, only colonizing the show for the time being, but likely soon to break out into a deadly virulent infection, once again sickening and weakening the show

  11. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Season three was chocked full of melodrama because they were keeping Oliver and Felicity apart. Most of season four was melodrama free...except for the parts setting up Oliver and Felicity not being together. Does anyone really think that keeping Oliver and Felicity apart is going to result in LESS melodrama when for the last two years the show has taught us the opposite?
    It had melodrama because the writers wanted it to. Them being apart didn't have to make it that way. It was a choice.

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I heard that in marriage, men want women to love them as they are, while women want to change men for the better (I guess according to the wife's eyes?). Don't know if that's a maxim, sage advice or Cosmo factoid claptrap, but it totally sounds like Olicity as it stood at the "break".



    Yeah, I miss the Felicity who called Ollie on his crap back in S1, untainted by shipper demands and expectations. I really hope Olicity has left their high school cafeteria dramatics behind as of this ep. When SV's Lana rode off with red-krypto Clark on his motorcycle in S2 the lesson I got was that good girls love bad boys. Thanks, The WB.
    That was in season 3 and she initially rejected his offer to go with him in the season 2 finale, and actually only went with him to help try and get him to come back to Smallville.

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  13. #43
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    I find the romantic "opposites attract" so cliché and boring. It's this over used trope in film/TV/books that makes us believe that two people that are very similar aren't able to compliment each other. Something I've always found Olicity lacked is what was drawing the two together? What similarities did they have that cemented their relationship to one another? I've dated my opposite and that was the worst relationship I was ever in. I'm not saying such relationships are doomed from the start, it's just they been played out so often in entertainment that I fail to see anything of any true interest left in them, all they really provide is angst and melodrama which I can very easily do without. Combine that with the "goody two-shoe" girl wanting to "fix" the "bad boy" and you've got the perfect teeny drama relationship as seen with Olicity.

  14. #44
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    What similarities did they have that cemented their relationship to one another? [snip]

    Combine that with the "goody two-shoe" girl wanting to "fix" the "bad boy" and you've got the perfect teeny drama relationship as seen with Olicity.
    Similarities: A belief that they can make a difference for the citizens of Star City. A willingness to do what it takes, regularly skirting the law and taking matters into their own hands. A willingness to physically put themselves and loved ones in danger. A grey attitude toward murder. Very good at keeping secrets. Felicity and Oliver have different personalities and backgrounds but they share the same values and goals and beliefs. This isn't a case of people with nothing in common. Also, apart from the part where Oliver is still not sharing enough, by all accounts on the show, they've been extremely happy with each other. They generally agree on most life decisions. They may have strengths in different areas, but they are not that different of people.

    And holding Oliver to the standard of marriage partners telling each other important things like the stray child now and again, isn't Felicity trying to fix him. He did something she can't accept and she ended the relationship. Now in the past she's been happy to assist when HE wants to change like when he decided to honor Tommy with the no killing rule and she sought to help him see the good he could do past just the list and wanted to make sure he wasn't caviler in killing, she is clear about what she will not accept from him, but she has doesn't wait around hoping he changes. She moves on and lets him decide if HE wants to change.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 02-28-2016 at 07:00 PM.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Similarities: A belief that they can make a difference for the citizens of Star City. A willingness to do what it takes, regularly skirting the law and taking matters into their own hands. A willingness to physically put themselves and loved ones in danger. A grey attitude toward murder. Very good at keeping secrets. Felicity and Oliver have different personalities and backgrounds but they share the same values and goals and beliefs. This isn't a case of people with nothing in common. Also, apart from the part where Oliver is still not sharing enough, by all accounts on the show, they've been extremely happy with each other. They generally agree on most life decisions. They may have strengths in different areas, but they are not that different of people.

    And holding Oliver to the standard of marriage partners telling each other important things like the stray child now and again, isn't Felicity trying to fix him. He did something she can't accept and she ended the relationship. Now in the past she's been happy to assist when HE wants to change like when he decided to honor Tommy with the no killing rule and she sought to help him see the good he could do past just the list and wanted to make sure he wasn't caviler in killing, she is clear about what she will not accept from him, but she has doesn't wait around hoping he changes. She moves on and lets him decide if HE wants to change.
    The similarity all revolves around Oliver's work as the Arrow which, considering that's what the show is all about, isn't a very convincing similarity. As for their happy, blissful relationship in Ivy Town, that's how the showrunners had it written and it is supposed to be accepted as fact without any sort of proof to substantiate it aside from them telling/showing us it is so. (Their views weren't all that similar if Felicity was working behind Oliver's back.)

    As for Felicity waiting and supporting Oliver when he wants to change, it's just as stupid (IMO) WANTING somebody to change as it is to actively try to change them. Why am I in a relationship with somebody if that isn't the person I want them to be? Oliver CAN'T be Felicity's one true love if he has to change.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 03-02-2016 at 12:37 AM.

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