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  1. #46
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    ^ Great analysis, President_Luthor! A real treat to read. See, this is why I don't need to watch every episode anymore, cause I can just read your commentaries

  2. #47
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    ^ Great analysis, President_Luthor! A real treat to read. See, this is why I don't need to watch every episode anymore, cause I can just read your commentaries
    If only someone over on Flash or LOT extended me the same courtesy whenever those shows inexplicably ship the heck outta Caitlin/Jay (at least they're trying to make sense of it now) and the increasingly weird Vandal/Kendra thing they've got going on. Vandal hitting on Kendra in every timeline -- still all sorts of creepy. Wish I could unsee it.

  3. #48
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    If only someone over on Flash or LOT extended me the same courtesy whenever those shows inexplicably ship the heck outta Caitlin/Jay (at least they're trying to make sense of it now) and the increasingly weird Vandal/Kendra thing they've got going on. Vandal hitting on Kendra in every timeline -- still all sorts of creepy. Wish I could unsee it.


    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    The takeaway from the Thea scenes for me is: she wants Ollie to be able to have a relationship with his son, has some sympathy for Samantha's reasons for giving him visitation conditions, and is okay with Felicity being kept out of the loop. She apparently doesn't know or hasn't considered if William is now in danger.
    Watched the Thea/Ollie scene and I agree.

    I felt like Thea's primary focus was trying to be there for Ollie. What came across to me is how troubled Oliver actually is about the situation, which I hadn't realized from reading some of the rage-filled comments about Oliver and the scene that have been made by some fans out there on other sites. So it was interesting to actually see the scene.

    Clearly Oliver has been weighed down by the situation. He was the one who brought up some of the concerns that have been raised by viewers, so it's not like we're being given an Oliver who doesn't know that his choices are questionable. He admitted it was not right to go into marriage with Felicity under these circumstances and obviously that bothered him greatly. I would even say he was feeling anguished. And when Thea pointed out somewhat supportively that he was trying to keep his promise to the mother of his child, he said something along the lines of: "That doesn't make it right."

    I got the sense of an Oliver who has been isolated, struggling and somewhat lost in trying to cope with the situation. He may know what to do out there in the field, fighting as the Green Arrow. But he’s clueless about how to handle Samantha. (Perhaps a little low there on the emotional IQ charts, Ollie?) Also, the situation doesn’t seem to have been marked as "urgent" on his things-I-got-to-figure-out-and-fix-now list (perhaps understandable for someone who is battling Darhk, running for mayor, and dealing with the paralysis of his fiance). He kind of seemed lost, stuck, uncertain. Paralyzed about how to handle the situation.

    Ironically, in keeping his promise to Samantha, he has denied himself the very thing that he most needs: someone with whom he can talk over the whole dilemma and the ethics of the situation. I guess the show, by having Thea find out, gave him a confidant to whom he could unburden himself (somehow I don't think Malcolm would have sufficed ) while ensuring that technically he did not break his promise to Samantha. (Apparently Guggie REALLY wants him to take the high road here and keep his promise to the babymama )Theoretically, I guess he could have talked to Barry except that wouldn't have worked from a practical perspective (E-2 anyone?)

    It was interesting to confirm that Samantha has not allowed Oliver to tell William he is his father. And I'm curious where they'll go with that in the future. Will he end up telling William or will William never know? And I'd like to know a lot more about how his visits and conversations with Samantha have gone so I could get a better understanding of the situation, but that's more suitable for a Lifetime movie and not Arrow.

    Maybe if Felicity was my favorite character I would feel suitably outraged but I just don't. I can understand the dilemma Oliver has struggled with and it's nice to see that at least he has matured enough to feel bad about stuff like this (unlike say, his younger self who constantly cheated on Laurel, including with her sister, with no apparent feelings of guilt). Too bad I don't like Oliver anymore or I might actually be impressed that he's maturing. I do think it's commendable that he has tried to prioritize his son, an innocent child, first in the situation. Because clearly what Oliver needed to do was to be able to tell other people, but he's not allowed himself to do that.

    I thought in the first timeline, the way Felicity reacted about the lie was childish and selfish. I think it makes sense that this go-round, when she finds out, she will be angry, but I don't see the point in the writers just basically putting us through a scene we have already seen before. That seems redundant.

    She has every right to be angry, to let Oliver know that this was not okay with her, and it can be written in a way that is much calmer and more mature than that first scene. So I don't think it is inevitable that Felicity needs to come out of the break-up scene looking bad. In fact, the more maturely she handles it, the more impressed viewers might be with her, even naysayers such as myself (and by “maturely”, I am not saying that being mature means not being angry; rather being angry need not involve shouting, threats, imprecations, screaming, stomping and ultimatums -- there are other, more constructive ways to assert that one has been transgressed against and to set boundaries; and in fact, it'd be nice to have more modelling in TV shows of such alternative ways of handling anger). What would look bad IMO is if they either went with the childish-Felicity-version route (again) or did the doormat oh-you-can-do-whatever-you-want-and-I'll-never-draw-any-boundaries-in-our-relationship-honey route.

    Again, Felicity can come out of this with her dignity intact, making Ollie look all the worse as well as poorer for what he's (temporarily) lost, assuming of course that they do break-up. Though it's a long shot, there is always the possibility that they could choose to have Felicity communicate her anger, disappointment and concerns, and then choose the route of forgiveness, staying together and working through things with a clear understanding on Ollie's part that he only gets one more chance! (But realistically, this is a relationship on the CW and that means we need melodrama and frequent break-ups!)

    Well, I’ll certainly be curious to see how the scene plays out when Felicity finds out (thank goodness for YouTube!!)

  4. #49
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Well when Felicity found out about William she blew up at Oliver broke up with him and got everyone killed in the alternate timeline.

    If I was Oliver I would've said don't yell at me I just learned that I had a son and I needed time to process this information before I told anyone else.

    Maybe not exactly but I would wish that Oliver would've said something similar.

  5. #50
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    Well when Felicity found out about William she blew up at Oliver broke up with him and got everyone killed in the alternate timeline.

    If I was Oliver I would've said don't yell at me I just learned that I had a son and I needed time to process this information before I told anyone else.

    Maybe not exactly but I would wish that Oliver would've said something similar.
    Felicity wasn't to blame for what happened in that pairing. Oliver made poor choices that he knew were poor, but he made them anyway because he's too dependent on his romance with her.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  6. #51
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    In one of SA's comicon appearances (I think it was Heroes and Villains fest last month - thanks YouTube!), he said he was advocating that Ollie shouldn't actually lie and the 'not telling Felicity' should be written as a concealment of truth/lie of omission while the writers wanted it to come off as an outright lie b/c they wanted it to be framed that way in the story. Which might explain why some viewers interpret it as Ollie lying while others saw it as him merely not divulging the truth.

    For me, not revealing the truth is just lying masquerading as something that seems "less" bad on a superficial level. So while Ollie didn't actually deny he had a son (Felicity didn't point-blank ask him: Do you have a son, yes or no?) he also didn't fess up that he had one until the DNA test left him with no wiggle room re: concealing the truth. Keeping it a secret was always a lie, it's just that the test forced it into the open ... at the worst possible time too.

    I think the part that resonated with me then was Ollie saying he needed time to process the life-altering information re: having a son. While I can understand that Felicity can and should be ticked he doesn't think his fiancee can handle the truth or be entrusted with it, Ollie's life had shifted from "me" (a life revolving around him) to "we" (a life that must now revolve around his son if he's serious about being a dad). Any reasonable person would think that he needs the time to digest what it means and how it will affect his life going forward. Under any other scenario -- where the world wasn't literally under the knife of Vandal Savage -- maybe he could have that time. As it stands, Ollie picked a terrible time to abruptly decide to try out the fathering gig and Felicity picked the worst time and place to confront him, with the team at their wit's end on how to deal with Savage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    I think it makes sense that this go-round, when she finds out, she will be angry, but I don't see the point in the writers just basically putting us through a scene we have already seen before. That seems redundant.

    She has every right to be angry, to let Oliver know that this was not okay with her, and it can be written in a way that is much calmer and more mature than that first scene. So I don't think it is inevitable that Felicity needs to come out of the break-up scene looking bad. In fact, the more maturely she handles it, the more impressed viewers might be with her, even naysayers such as myself (and by “maturely”, I am not saying that being mature means not being angry; rather being angry need not involve shouting, threats, imprecations, screaming, stomping and ultimatums -- there are other, more constructive ways to assert that one has been transgressed against and to set boundaries; and in fact, it'd be nice to have more modelling in TV shows of such alternative ways of handling anger). What would look bad IMO is if they either went with the childish-Felicity-version route (again) or did the doormat oh-you-can-do-whatever-you-want-and-I'll-never-draw-any-boundaries-in-our-relationship-honey route.

    Again, Felicity can come out of this with her dignity intact, making Ollie look all the worse as well as poorer for what he's (temporarily) lost, assuming of course that they do break-up. Though it's a long shot, there is always the possibility that they could choose to have Felicity communicate her anger, disappointment and concerns, and then choose the route of forgiveness, staying together and working through things with a clear understanding on Ollie's part that he only gets one more chance!
    I agree that it would seem unlikely that they'd revisit and rehash the soap-heavy Timeline 1 Olicity blow-up reaction. Now that they've shown one way it could go down aka the classic emotionally-charged CW messy break-up (now erased forever), I'd like to think they won't go down the same road.

    Felicity could very well come out of this looking like the bigger person ... assuming she heeds her own advice to Donna, plus sets limits on the secret-keeping/truth concealing nonsense Ollie tends to default to as a coping mechanism. Which she'd have every right to do as a future wife. Again, this all depends on everyone behaving sensibly -- a big leap of faith when Team Arrow is concerned.

  7. #52
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Felicity wasn't to blame for what happened in that pairing. Oliver made poor choices that he knew were poor, but he made them anyway because he's too dependent on his romance with her.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
    I know he shouldn't have lied but he just found out he had a son he didn't have time to process that information before he was confronted about keeping it a secret. Sure after he saw his son he should have told atleast Felicity and Thea that he has a son. But Samantha said William and everyone else can't know William is Oliver's son.

  8. #53
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Well when Felicity found out about William she blew up at Oliver broke up with him and got everyone killed in the alternate timeline.
    Point of clarification: Felicity and Oliver had an argument and then she walked away but only Barry interpreted it as a break up which only shows how few relationships he's been in. A fight, even a bad one is not a break up.

    Still, the reason everyone died in the original time line had zero to do with the fight. The devise designed to uses against Savage didn't work. That was why they had no shot the first time around.


    Would Thea be as willing to agree with the 'keep William a secret' plan had she known both Malcolm and Darkh know about the son? We don't know, because apparently they don't know or even considered it as a risk. Chalk that up as typical Team Arrow cluelessness. Not proactive much, guys?

    In a way, I'm relieved that it is a family member that knows the secret now and a strong case could be made that Thea, as his only living blood family relative (prior to William), should know it ahead of anyone. In a way, the revelation makes Ollie come off as a putz because Thea had to find out not by Ollie disclosing all before the start of the campaign but while she was vetting his past for possible damaging skeletons while the campaign was going on.
    Two things, One, if Thea could figure out the secret via doing oppositional research, then so could his opponent aka the wife of DD. (Which is the purpose of doing oppositional research in the first place)

    Two, Oliver's promise to the Baby Mama was to keep William a secret from EVERYONE. He's broken his promise so tell me why it still has to be enforced with the one relationship that it would most damage?


    I know he shouldn't have lied but he just found out he had a son he didn't have time to process that information before he was confronted about keeping it a secret. Sure after he saw his son he should have told atleast Felicity and Thea that he has a son. But Samantha said William and everyone else can't know William is Oliver's son.
    In the original time line Oliver had just come from talking to Samantha and promising never to tell anyone. Felicity confronted him, he point blank lied, she called him on it and then when she asked when he was going to tell her, he pretty much confirmed never.

    I'd give him a pass on processing if he'd any intension of sharing but instead he (crippled by MG's stupidity) decided his only option was to be honest with BabyMama and lie to everyone else that he actually trusts and has a relationship with. The dumbness of this forced and contrived "dilemma" is beyond reasoning or understanding and it's only gotten stupider with time and more exposure of the secret.

    While I can understand that Felicity can and should be ticked he doesn't think his fiancee can handle the truth or be entrusted with it, Ollie's life had shifted from "me" (a life revolving around him) to "we" (a life that must now revolve around his son if he's serious about being a dad). Any reasonable person would think that he needs the time to digest what it means and how it will affect his life going forward. Under any other scenario -- where the world wasn't literally under the knife of Vandal Savage -- maybe he could have that time. As it stands, Ollie picked a terrible time to abruptly decide to try out the fathering gig and Felicity picked the worst time and place to confront him, with the team at their wit's end on how to deal with Savage.
    But now he's had months to mull it over and he's made the same choice. He had the benefit of the doubt the first time around, that maybe he'd process and realize he had a choice but instead he's just fallen more into the rabbit hole and again, it does not protect William to keep him a secret from Felicity and Oliver's already broken his promise to Samantha three times over so why still does the buck stop with Felicity?

    Because PLOT!!!!!!!!! I just wish there was even a tiny valid justification.

    I'm less upset about Felicity being lied to and kept in the dark then that the show utterly failed to provide a reason why Oliver would feel he has to lie to her. It makes this just a huge waste of my time.

  9. #54
    Forum Regular Arrow_47's Avatar
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    One of the most poorly written episodes I've seen on this show to date. Biggest head scratcher for me...Malcolm is (supposedly) so mad about what Oliver did (re: Nyssa) that he tells Darhk about William. But for some illogical reason that anger doesn't cause him to tell Darhk that Oliver is the Green Arrow? Or who the rest of Team Arrow is for that matter? At least Team Arrow has half a chance to protect themselves, but throwing William under the bus to a monster like Darhk is as bottom of the barrel as you can get.

    That said, I still enjoyed the ep as a whole. I'm willing to overlook the obvious sometimes for the overall entertainment value. Oliver killed someone in the episode, so I'm happy.

  10. #55
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    I probably need to reiterate that I don't see it as clear-cut as Ollie in the wrong with no reservation and Felicity being completely in the right. Or, Ollie being totally right and Felicity being completely off-side. Never have. I can appreciate that fans want to see the show's lead protagonist/protagonist in a better light than perhaps they deserve. Which is why in this situation, I not prepared to completely lionize or condemn either of them without reservation.

    But I will say the "time to process" reason for Ollie always had a best before due date -- it's not limitless -- and that time is, if not shortly past due now that Thea knows, has already passed. I think Thea figuring it out accelerates the closing of the window Ollie has (or had) on coming clean with his future wife. His time to process is subjective indeed (2 days? 2 weeks? 2 months? When Rip Hunter comes back from 2046? There's going to be no real consensus on the "right"ness of the duration.) I'd tend to lean towards sooner rather than later.

    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Two things, One, if Thea could figure out the secret via doing oppositional research, then so could his opponent aka the wife of DD. (Which is the purpose of doing oppositional research in the first place)

    Two, Oliver's promise to the Baby Mama was to keep William a secret from EVERYONE. He's broken his promise so tell me why it still has to be enforced with the one relationship that it would most damage?
    1. -Goes back to my point of Team Arrow not being proactive much. Did Ollie not consider that a) Malcolm knowing the existence of William might be a pending problem and b) being a public figure and calling out Darkh during the campaign could present complications should William ever surface on his radar? Obviously, he should have, and also considered that if Thea could figure it out so can Ruve's team ... and the risk this might present not just to his mayoral campaign but to his son. Arrow may borrow a few things from Batman's influences -- putting contingencies in place is surely not one of them.

    This just further reinforces to me, just on Ollie wanting to be a mayoral candidate to be taken seriously on a purely Machiavellian political sense, why Thea should have been in the loop. Even if he didn't give a damn about telling his own sister that she now has a nephew(!), he needed to tell her and probably campaign manager Alex about it just so they could plan campaign countermeasures should Ruve (or, heck, any opponent) exploit it during the race. I mean, he does want to win, doesn't he?

    My impression is that Ollie was coasting during the campaign (either against a weak field of also-rans or possibly uncontested?), until Ruve entered the race. Even if Ruve hadn't entered the race, just on due diligence he needed to keep his campaign shot-callers abreast of any skeletons that opponents could exploit.

    2- You are asking a question that has really yet to be answered, which is part of the waiting for the other shoe to drop aka Ollie telling Felicity about William -- or Felicity finding out about it before he tells her.

    Ollie hasn't given much detail in terms of why he thinks Felicity still needs to be kept in the dark, esp. now that Thea knows -- the only "hints" we might get about where his mind is from his chats with Quentin and Thea this ep., which only generally circle around the secrets/lies/truth themes and not specifically about "Felicity - William - tell or not?"

    I have to admit, rewatching Ollie reply to Felicity's 'When are you going to tell me?' question in the timeline 1 snafu looks really bad on him. "I don't know." Worst answer to give in that moment, dude. Maybe it's true he didn't know, he didn't know how long it would take to process it (and he apparently still doesn't know) ... that is not the best response he should have said.

    Maybe an Ollie who wasn't as emotionally charged and literally about to march to his likely death against Savage might have said something like: 'I need a couple of days (weeks?) to sort this out and you have my word that, once I've digested it I'll explain everything and we'll sort this out together.' He didn't have the presence of mind then to articulate something so sensible, nor did Felicity have the sense to post-date the confrontation until the Flarrowverse's pending apocalypse was dealt with. I can fault them both for not having enough sense and also give them some leeway for not handling it as well during a time of imminent global crisis.

    And technically, Barry was the only person we could argue that Ollie "told", albeit indirectly when Barry was first given paternity test duties (giving the test to someone Felicity also knows well must rank among Ollie's top bone-headed moves if he truly wanted it a secret). Malcolm found out on his own with his Ra's Al Ghul resources (he never really spelled out how exactly) and Thea found out during her vetting research. Maybe Ollie thinks he hasn't told anyone (I guess he doesn't count Barry ... b/c it was the positive test that compelled him to seek out baby mama, her conditions imposed after the cat was out the bag re: Barry) and by some skewered perspective he may think that Malcolm and Thea finding out means they found out the secret and not him revealing it?

    But yeah, it's a fine and wobbly line between admitting a truth once someone else spells it out for you where you can't deny it any longer and actively breaking a promise to keep a secret. Maybe he believes others broke his promise, not him? It's a convoluted logic that only makes sense to Ollie.

    Who knows, the point being we can't answer it until the other shoe drops. We simply don't know what gears are spinning in Ollie's head re: why he feels Felicity should still be in the dark, which is why I think Quentin/Donna's subplot was there more for context re: the truth/lies/secrets situation in Olicity heading into the final lap of the season. It's no coincidence Quentin and Donna were sorting out trust and secret-keeping issues -- and chatting with Ollie and Felicity as sounding boards on those same matters.

    The dumbness of this forced and contrived "dilemma" is beyond reasoning or understanding and it's only gotten stupider with time and more exposure of the secret.
    Essentially, yes. And mostly by design.

    This is arguably the biggest melodrama plot they've had on Arrow, with the biggest ramifications not just on Olicity -- which we expect -- but on Ollie's growth as a character, on his mission and even on his endgame (these only in the blowback sense, with some I fear not for the better). They are keeping us in the dark about a lot of things still, intentionally, which can be frustrating to say the least when it seems Ollie's hasn't made much progress on the common sense front.

    Because PLOT!!!!!!!!! I just wish there was even a tiny valid justification.
    As this secret son plot is primarily to fuel melodrama, specifically Olicity melodrama -- we may not find the sort of practical or "realistic" justification that we may want. Logic doesn't always surface (or matter) when the priority will be to generate angst.

    And I'm bracing for the fact that Ollie will behave just like a conflicted vigilante with a checkered and brutal past, an identity crisis and a zillion bullseyes on his back in a unreal world -- and not act as a "normal" and "sensible" person in the real world that we live in.

  11. #56
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    My impression is that Ollie was coasting during the campaign (either against a weak field of also-rans or possibly uncontested?), until Ruve entered the race.
    Yeah, he was uncontested until DD's wife.

  12. #57
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor View Post
    I have to admit, rewatching Ollie reply to Felicity's 'When are you going to tell me?' question in the timeline 1 snafu looks really bad on him. "I don't know." Worst answer to give in that moment, dude. Maybe it's true he didn't know, he didn't know how long it would take to process it (and he apparently still doesn't know) ... that is not the best response he should have said.
    See, here is where I would differ, because for me, given that he has just learned of the existence of his child, I find it very understandable that he would respond with that “I don’t know.” It’s “foggy” brain – his emotional brain is in charge right now and I wouldn’t expect him to be operating from the regions in charge of executive functions (logic, reasoning, planning, strategy etc) with regard to this particular situation. I see this in patients/family in hospital/clinic when they receive life-altering news. And that’s what this is for Ollie: life altering news (he said his life exploded, that’s how he describes the feeling). He is being honest when he says, “I don’t know” and the reason is, as he again honestly says, is he needs some time to process the info. This is the same reasoning behind all those old-timey suggestions that when we are angry (emotionally charged) most of us are better off if we can go cool off, go for a walk, take some time to calm down (ie get out of our emotional brains and re-access the more rational parts, “clear-headed” parts).

    Now, true, Ollie is the master of compartmentalization but I find it realistic that someone may easily compartmentalize in some or even a lot of areas of his/her life, but not every single area, not every single event. Sure, if this were his 3rd or 4th time (or okay, maybe even 2nd) finding out about yet another unknown child, then I’d expect him to have a playbook of rules with instructions for How-To-Operate-Upon-Learning-Of-Yet-Another-Unknown-Kid: Chapter 2: When and How To Tell Your Significant Other. But this is his first time with this kind of situation…. so I can cut him some slack.

    Anyway, at that one moment in time (first cross-over fight) I really don’t have any harsh judgment about how Ollie’s acting.

    Beyond that time though, I’ve not been given enough data/info to understand the entirety of subsequent events/choices, enough so that I feel confident in how I would judge his actions and choices. I have more questions than answers. Really, to get into addressing the kind of particulars that I would need to know about, the material would best be handled in a 2-hr Lifetime special cross-over movie event (Tonight on Lifetime Movie Network! -- Arrow Secrets and Lies: The Secret Love Child: Fallout!)

    So, I guess, maybe unlike a lot of posters, I really don’t know how to judge him and I don’t have any feeling about even wanting to make a judgment – I guess b/c I accept that the intent of this storyline was never to give me the full picture about the situation (which would require scenes about his visits and conversations with Samantha …). Basically, Guggie et al. are taking lots of cheap short-cuts with this story.

    The one thing I did think, as I said when I saw the Thea/Ollie scene, was that it was nice to know that he was struggling with the situation. I’m glad to have evidence that this has not been easy for him (unlike how he used to treat Laurel…). I can at least give him a bit of credit for that.

    What this storyline leaves me with is curiosity about 2 things:
    1. What will Felicity’s reaction be this time when she finds out?

    2. How will William’s storyline play out?


  13. #58
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    While Felicity's reaction might be interesting to watch I personally could care less. Let Oliver figure out if he really does want to be a part of William's life, he just found out he has a child and hasn't had 6-9 months of pregnancy to digest the information before making that type of decision. It's noble that Oliver wants to be there for William but some children are better off without their fathers and until Oliver knows what he wants to do Felicity has no reason to be informed other than common courtesy.

    Let's move forward in time a bit, past the Olicity drama William has brought to the show. William's going to be a forgotten plotline once this passes, maybe a short mention once or twice but otherwise we'll never see or hear from him again unless the showrunners think of some other sort of drama they can milk out of him for the show. We won't see Oliver playing ball with William or going out for ice cream with him, he'll simply be forgotten and put on a shelf for possible later use.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 02-21-2016 at 11:01 AM.

  14. #59
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrow_47 View Post
    That said, I still enjoyed the ep as a whole. I'm willing to overlook the obvious sometimes for the overall entertainment value. Oliver killed someone in the episode, so I'm happy.
    Wait, what? Who did he kill? One of the Ghosts?

    (asking, because I didn't watch a few last episodes, don't even have time to catch up really, but you made me interested with that mention)

  15. #60
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    While Felicity's reaction might be interesting to watch I personally could care less.


    I think if she were a real person, I would be genuinely curious b/c how people react to stuff is always interesting to me (not that it would be any of my business in that case though).

    I suspect my reasons for wanting to see her reaction are more like that horrible impulse lots of people have to slow down when there's been a carwreck -- I'm fascinated to see if the writers will force Felicity into such another "gruesome" (IMO) reaction as last time. I was really shocked they did it that first time (afterall, I thought, wasn't Felicity their pet favorite? why would they show her in such unflattering IMO light?).

    My bet is they won't go there this time (which I have to admit, the more evil part of me will be disappointed in b/c of course, since I dislike her character, I'd LOVE for her to act horribly LOL). I think, if they really want to sell me on the in-show idea that she's so great, then they need to allow her to handle this in a mature, inspiring way (again not saying it's not okay for her to be angry, as I already said in another post...), and I'd actually be okay with that and it would probably give me a good feeling to see her come out of it with dignity etc. Though if they want to sell me on the in-show idea that she's so great, they're going to have to do a LOT more than just have her handling this scene well -- which won't matter anyway b/c I don't watch every episode and don't plan to restart anytime soon!

    For William -- I don't expect to get much detail about his and Ollie's relationship. I just want to know some specifics: will he live? will he go into hiding? if he goes into hiding will he or won't he know Oliver is his father? if he goes into hiding, will the initial idea be that Oliver will have no further contact with him for safety reasons? (and of course I don't necessarily expect to get all the answers to my questions, but just things I am interested in knowing...)

    Oh, and BTW, great point about the fact that by her very biology a woman knows she has a child. Only in the most bizarre, unusual, uncommon circumstances would it be the case that a woman suddenly discovers she has a child out in the world that she never knew existed. So I guess as a woman I know it is going to be harder for me to imagine/understand Oliver's feelings than it might be for a lot of men...
    Last edited by Shelby Kent; 02-21-2016 at 11:05 AM.

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