View Poll Results: What did you think?

Voters
16. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Great!

    5 31.25%
  • 9

    2 12.50%
  • 8

    6 37.50%
  • 7

    0 0%
  • 6

    1 6.25%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 4

    1 6.25%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Sins of the Arrow Writers... yuck

    1 6.25%
Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 38
  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 03
    Location
    Burbank, CA by way of Annapolis, MD
    Posts
    17,956

    Loved It? Hated It? What did you think of "Sins of the Father?"

    What did you think?

  2. #2
    Board Master
    Join Date
    Dec 10
    Posts
    2,776
    I think we may have an idea of whose grave it will be and it's not any of the Arrow cast. We can now see why Barry attended with Oliver.

  3. #3
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 14
    Posts
    835
    For the most part I thought the fight scenes were flat and boring, especially the big Oliver/Malcolm throw down. Penguin chopping off Butch's hand was far more convincing, and handled better than Oliver giving Malcolm an extreme manicure. Not a big fan of Oliver's man pain, holy smoak(s) Oliver just man up and tend to Malcolm already, don't spend half an episode equivocating over it. Disbanding the L.O.A.??? Nope, sorry Nyssa doesn't get to do that. Apparently the magic flower is this year's tea and penicillin, bonus points for also curing bloodlust. Terrible episode.

  4. #4
    Chatterbox Christian moviefan2k4's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 04
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    2,511
    Tonight's episode was very interesting, the biggest surprise being [SPOILER]Nyssa's disbanding of the League of Assassins[/SPOILER]. I was also a little confused, as to the kind of power Merlyn was ranting about, that he appeared to fear being placed in her hands. What could possibly be so terrible, that he'd even [SPOILER]betray Oliver's son to Damien Darkh[/SPOILER] over it?

  5. #5
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,904
    This episode was primarily a send-off for the League of Assassins storyline, much as “The Return” last year was a send-off for Slade Wilson. In comparison to that, this was wonderfully handled, and we saw a lot of things happen that may have repercussions further down the road. The people of Star City will have likely remembered the black-clad figures who followed the Arrow into battle two years ago to defend them from Slade’s army. It might be interesting to see how things play out.

    Nyssa’s journey in this episode and the previous one was done well, showing her having reverted to her old methods and then coming to realize that she is letting her father control her even after his death. I also liked that they didn’t cheapen her character and ask Oliver to be her champion against Malcolm, instead having Oliver use the traditions of the League to find that third option.

    Malcolm and Oliver: two very skilled men who have a long history, and in Malcolm’s own words, he feels as though Oliver was more his son than Tommy. Malcolm knowing about William was honestly something I didn’t expect, but as soon as Malcolm started talking about Thea and revealed his knowledge, I knew this was going to be a crapstorm. Malcolm’s vow at the end, and Oliver and his stare-down, showed the element we’ve been missing for so long: the Dark Archer vs the Green Arrow. FINALLY!

    The fight scene was honestly what I expected. Yeah, Oliver’s had some pretty crappy fighting skills this season, but as we’ve established pretty thoroughly, that’s been a combination of wanting to be the guy Felicity sees him as (one who doesn’t kill if isn’t necessary), and also to focus less on the darkness and be the kind of hero who can stand in the light of day. But he has been trained by Slade Wilson and Ra’s al Ghul, two of the most dangerous men on the planet, and he defeated them both. He has the skills, he just needed the conviction. And the combination of every single member of his team supporting his decision gave him that conviction.

    As an aside: Carmine, the most epic fight scene in this entire series was the Season 2 finale scene which intercut the battle on the Amazo with the present day battle. But watch them separately, so to speak, and you have Slade giving a super-powered beat down and getting taken down by happenstance on the Amazo, and two evenly-matched warriors in the present with Slade only getting taken out by the fact that he was undergoing the effects of the cure, which sent most of his men into shock. So the fight here was on level with every other major one-on-one fight Oliver has had.

    Well, we know what Stephen meant when he said that we’d be screaming at Malcolm. Sadly, this plays right into something Malcolm said earlier in the film: that Oliver’s not especially bright. I will go more into my thoughts on this, since it ties into the grave issue, on that thread.

    The Felicity-Noah storyline was handled very tastefully without any nonsensical drama. I’ll say this much for the Smoak family: they don’t mince words and don’t engage in long bouts of melodrama with one another. Felicity having Noah arrested was a surprise, but a welcome one. Oh, and anyone else smirking when they realized Donna’s current love interest arrested her ex-husband?

    This episode’s flashbacks were transitional in nature, not very inspiring but apparently necessary.

    One thing I want to note: we’re saying goodbye to a lot of organizations and their storylines this season. I hope they know what they’re doing with that. ARGUS may still stand, but I doubt we’ll see much of it unless Lyla rejoins. The League has been disbanded, and HIVE will either slink back into the shadows or be dismantled by the end of this season.

    One last element: even though it was mainly because they were the ones requested, I had a nice chill go up my spine seeing Oliver and Laurel called to meet with Nyssa and Malcolm, and to have Malcolm levy his threat at the Green Arrow with the Black Canary standing nearby. Just was a very chilling moment for me. A nice little nod without it sending any big waves for the two being on-screen together. It was a nice touch, for me.

    This is one of those very rare 10/10 episodes for Arrow from me.

  6. #6
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 04
    Posts
    3,049
    There were some unexpected twists in this one. Overall it was another solid Arrow ep.

    At the very least, they raised another real/"red herring" possibility with who might be in the grave. And for this one, the bill will land squarely on Ollie's table if or when it does happen. Ollie's "but Malcolm is Thea's dad" plea for not acting and not making the hard decisions re: Malcolm is getting stale as justification in S4.

    We all know Ollie and Team should have dealt with Malcolm long before he become Ra's Al Ghul. And Malcolm pretty much explained why Ollie hasn't -- he's not especially bright. Ollie's duel switcheroo scheme on the surface looks like a good try at trying to gain the upper hand (and keep an LOA civil war from breaking out in his city), but he must know by now that he can't underestimate or trust Malcolm. What did Ollie think was going to happen when he took away the Ra's title and the LOA from him -- that Malcolm would just nurse his wounds and let things be? For all is supposed planning, Ollie has shown he's not very good at big picture, long-term strategy. He saved Thea, but this is a small victory viewed through a very narrow prism. I can understand that he didn't want to sacrifice his sister while Malcolm and Nyssa sorted out their dynastic League issues -- but in terms of his big picture "saving his city" mission, it's a win that may not count much in the long term. His mission is not without cost. He doesn't want Thea to pay that price ... but whoever is in that grave will underline that it will come at a cost.

    The lotus potion was basically a means to an end: something Team Arrow wants, Nyssa has and something Malcolm could use to exploit to his own ends. They needed something to get all the pieces on the chess board. It's in the same category of "convenient miracle" as penicillin tea -- Thea should be dead without it -- but in this situation, I think there is a longer-term game at play beyond just curing Thea. Like, maybe ... Nyssa joining a future season LOT roster? I also think that this may be their way of wrapping up the LOA story arc, if we assume that they planned out how five seasons would roughly unfold. If the LOA wasn't going to be a factor in a S5 (or 6?), then it makes sense to settle it prior to any end-game season. Also, curing Thea means she can move on from the "dealing with bloodlust" subplot that was approaching its best-before date narratively.

    It does look like they are wrapping up or at least pressing the fast-forward button on more than a few story arcs this season: HIVE, the LOA. It seems they want to clear the decks of lingering subplots for their run towards the S4 finale.

    While a part of me as a viewer would have loved to see Nyssa's vision of a prolonged LOA civil war in SC, streets running with the blood of rival houses, come to fruition -- a prolonged war could also overshadow the things Darkh is planning or what a future S5 villain may be doing. Ending the LOA story arc frees up Nyssa to be more than just a Ra's title placeholder and frees up Malcolm to stop being a comfortable frenemy saddled with trying to save Thea and allows him to totally embrace the dark side.

    If he is to step up as the series' alpha-villain, S4 could be his graduation year. It looks like he is going for the jugular by ratting out the secret son info to Darkh.

    I didn't mind the Felicity daddy issues subplot, they are trying this season to give her belated character growth. The flashbacks as usual were meh. The S1-2 flashbacks are increasingly looking "Shakespearean" in comparison to the S3-4 ones.

  7. #7
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 08
    Posts
    76,306
    Fair is fair, Arrow finally put together a pretty good episode. And to little surprise, that happened to be the same episode that John Barrowman featured heavily in.

    - In many ways, this episode was a game changer. We are finally done with the LOA storyline. The show hardly did the group justice, so I am glad to see the end of it. That said, more of Katrina Law is a must!

    - Thea's bloodlust is also over. Good.

    - Looks like Malcolm will transition back to being a full time villain. Which is the way it should be. His peaceful co existence with Oliver always felt awkward. I have to give credit to the show for the way it went about it. Malcolm seeking revenge on Oliver for removing him as Ra's suits his character perfectly.

    - Oliver finally realizing the mistake he made by putting Malcolm in charge of the league was long overdue. That said, you just know that he will also regret not killing Merlyn. And maybe this decision ties into the whole graveyard mystery. Because now, the "him" that Oliver and Felicity want to kill could very well be Merlyn. Depends on whose in the grave. It won't be William though.

    - Arrow seems to have lost its touch with fight scenes. The problem isn't just fight scenes with multiple people that end up looking like ballet classes. The fight between Oliver and Malcolm was underwhelming and nowhere near as good as their season 1 encounters. Malcolm was also defeated too easily.

    - I wish the show did a better job of addressing the status of Oliver and Nyssa's marriage. Yeah, different religions and all that, but it feels weird that he plans on marrying Felicity while he's still tied to Nyssa in some way.

    - Felicity's scenes with Noah were tolerable. Nothing harmful. Nothing compelling either.

    - "You are the Steve Jobs in this equation". Oh show...

    - A final word about the flashbacks. Imo they've lost almost all their intrigue. At this point in the season, Arrow would usually do a flashback heavy episode (The Odyssey, The Promise, The Return). Can't see this happening this season because nothing of note happens in the flashbacks. It's just Oliver, Reiter and Conklin going in circles.

    7.5/10
    Last edited by costas22; 02-11-2016 at 02:47 AM.

  8. #8
    Let's Write!
    Join Date
    Jan 16
    Posts
    96
    Oliver's excuse about Merlyn being Thea's father and not doing anything quickly got stale in season 3. Season 4 just continues to drag it onwards. I definitely wasn't expecting a lot of what happened on the show and one thing came to mind about Merlyn at the end of it. Dude's a super douche bag.

  9. #9
    Forum Whiz
    Join Date
    Jan 13
    Posts
    749
    This episode could have been so much better but it seemed like the writers wanted to tie everything with the League of Assassins together as quickly as possible. It didn't help that the Felicity scenes with her Father were superfluous and whilst I love Jimmy Akingbolo (I think that's how you spell it ) the flashbacks just aren't working.

    Whilst the first couple times Nyssa mentioned Oliver was her husband were amusing, they just went on and on with it. I guess it was to show how much Oliver wanted to marry Felicity at the end of the episode.

    I'm not surprised Malcolm knows about William although I feel it would have worked better if it had been Moira who had told him and he didn't know that Oliver knew about William.

    Malcolm losing his hand was very Star Wars.

    I'm glad that Nyssa chose to disband the League although that is going to cause a lot of havoc. I hope we have more Nyssa towards the end of the season. Frankly, the writers should just make her a regular. She is absolutely brilliant.

    The only thing that would possibly save these flashbacks for me, would be if we find out Tatiana is a Bratva agent. I think that could be quite interesting.

    I'd like to think that there is more to Oliver not killing Malcolm, not just Malcolm is Thea's Dad. Malcolm is Oliver's last link to his parents and Oliver has known him his entire life. I feel like that would carry more weight.

    I'm curious as to who that girl was who was following Nyssa around. Maybe she could be important.

  10. #10
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 14
    Location
    Some where in the Untied States
    Posts
    1,292
    A very enjoyable episode and they are still keeping up with the trend of getting Arrow back to feeling like Arrow.

    Oliver and Malcolm's twisted father/son relationship well it's twisted. I'll buy the fact of Oliver having wanted to be hopefully with Malcolm since he is Thea's father and hope he could change. After all we've seen that denial at the start of this season of how he lived peacefully in Ivy Town.

    At the end of this episode it took them 3 years but not they are finally back at each other's throats. The Dark Archer vrs the Green Arrow is coming back full circle. Of course the ending of the episode yea that was a real screaming "Malcolm" moment and well worth it.

    Which the fight between Oliver and Malcolm well I'm not disappointed that it wasn't longer because I think we all needed to see Oliver is still a fighter and very good one at that. If Oliver lacks the conviction to embrace his darker nature even if he's not fighting to kill he will not really win the fight. We've seen how with his entire team backing him Oliver had the conviction to win that fight.

    Also since Malcolm is now going back to his Dark Archer role I have the feeling that we will get a much bigger fight on the way. If not this season then next. I was reminded of Slade's promise to Oliver when Malcolm was making his to Oliver.

    Nyssa, I enjoyed her character as always. I like how they moved her past just being like her father at the end of the episode with destroying The League. If this will be Nyssa's finale appearance for awhile it's the well done conclusion to a arc from her first appearance in 2x13.

    Laurel and Nyssa's friendship proves to be one of the high lights of the show.

    Which I did like how the one scene at the end had Oliver and Laurel there. A nice nod to their relationship in the comics which at this point I'm fine they are not in a romantic one. Also that the writers have not lost track of Laurel Lance and are not constantly pandering to a very small side of the fan base.

    The flashbacks, were watchable. I did like how they had Oliver bring up his father wanting him to right his wrongs. It's nice to see Oliver has not lost track of that. I'm guessing from the one conversation that Oliver's arc will be of accepting that he is the man to right his father's wrongs will come from ending Reiter and freeing the slaves.

    Although I will say a part of me is starting to wonder where the flashbacks are going because it seams like while they might be better done than season 3's they are just like going nowhere.

  11. #11
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 11
    Posts
    2,173
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Which I did like how the one scene at the end had Oliver and Laurel there. A nice nod to their relationship in the comics which at this point I'm fine they are not in a romantic one. Also that the writers have not lost track of Laurel Lance and are not constantly pandering to a very small side of the fan base.
    Yeah, if there's one thing I've appreciated i's that while they pander a lot to olicity fans, they at least haven't fully pandered in the way where they've killed off Laurel.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!

  12. #12
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Mar 11
    Posts
    1,904
    *chuckles* Just re-watched it and still stand by my review. A few things I forgot to mention:

    Donna's words about how people don't change. I'm wondering if that's going to come into play, especially since they touched on it with Oliver and Felicity in this episode. The fact that we already know they won't be together, much less married, by the time the grave scene rolls around tells me that it might, but it could also be because they've said Felicity will have some elements come into play in 14 and 15 regarding her current state (wheelchair bound) that will cause issues with the relationship.

    Oh, and I was looking at my review and noticed that I said 'film' where I meant episode. But when I think about it, I feel this episode was more cinematic, like some of the best Arrow episodes out there. So I won't bother changing it. Just a minor quirk.

    @Dagenspear: Honestly, that's one of the reasons I've wondered if the pandering hasn't just been to keep the show going long enough to tell the story they want (Oliver's journey from playboy to Hood in the past, and from Hood to Green Arrow in the present). It also makes me think that despite their willingness to pander, there are some lines they won't cross, and killing Black Canary is one of them. Though I guess we'll find out for sure come April.

  13. #13
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 14
    Location
    Some where in the Untied States
    Posts
    1,292
    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    *chuckles* Just re-watched it and still stand by my review. A few things I forgot to mention:

    Donna's words about how people don't change. I'm wondering if that's going to come into play, especially since they touched on it with Oliver and Felicity in this episode. The fact that we already know they won't be together, much less married, by the time the grave scene rolls around tells me that it might, but it could also be because they've said Felicity will have some elements come into play in 14 and 15 regarding her current state (wheelchair bound) that will cause issues with the relationship.

    Oh, and I was looking at my review and noticed that I said 'film' where I meant episode. But when I think about it, I feel this episode was more cinematic, like some of the best Arrow episodes out there. So I won't bother changing it. Just a minor quirk.

    @Dagenspear: Honestly, that's one of the reasons I've wondered if the pandering hasn't just been to keep the show going long enough to tell the story they want (Oliver's journey from playboy to Hood in the past, and from Hood to Green Arrow in the present). It also makes me think that despite their willingness to pander, there are some lines they won't cross, and killing Black Canary is one of them. Though I guess we'll find out for sure come April.
    You know looking at it from the perspective of them doing Olicty to get their show this far makes me wonder if your actually on to something. Which if that's case well that's changes a few things of my viewpoints for Olicty but I doubt the writers will ever admit that if that is indeed what they are doing.

  14. #14
    Posting Pro
    Join Date
    Aug 14
    Location
    Some where in the Untied States
    Posts
    1,292
    Ok I just rewatched some of the episode.

    Added thoughts I'm glad the blood lust for Thea is over and done with.

    I guess in the flashbacks of last week's episode Shado was actually a ghost considering the rock Oliver had. Which I'm sorry I don't see how they are going to do a relationship between Oliver and Tainina. Especially now because she's using him as means to an end in order to stop Reiter and the only reason she's taking are of him is due to Baron Reiter's orders.

    For the flashbacks I really hope next week is the main flashback special because I would say that's the only way it's going to get this season's flashbacks picking up speed. It's that's one reason why I do enjoy the season 1 flashbacks is because 1x14 helped me get invested into them.

  15. #15
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 07
    Location
    The Clocktower
    Posts
    3,771
    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    You know looking at it from the perspective of them doing Olicty to get their show this far makes me wonder if your actually on to something. Which if that's case well that's changes a few things of my viewpoints for Olicty but I doubt the writers will ever admit that if that is indeed what they are doing.
    Not sure about this theory, but I have to say that they've really rushed the big relationship milestones with Olicity from my pov, almost as if they're trying to tick off the boxes of giving the shippers everything the writers believe they could possibly ask for before getting back to the story they intended to tell from day one. We had the development from a fake out 'I love you' to the first date/real 'I love you'/angsty breakup that occurred over the break between season 2 and the course of the season 3 finale. We had the sex scene after much angst over Felicity being with someone else, and then a ride off into the sunset. Them moving in together happened again offscreen and between season 3 and season 4, Oliver decided to propose. And now we seem to be getting a wedding this season, judging by thE scene this episode. If they really intended Olicity to be the main narrative couple, why were the biggest developments in the relationship rushed and handled offscreen? Wouldn't they stretch out the relationship milestones like moving in together and getting engaged/married to create some sort of sense of will they/won't they?

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •