11.14 The Vessel

**Welling_is_pretty** · 01-30-2016, 10:16 AM

Just know the title so far.

Said title makes me think that is going to be all about Castiel as the Vessel for Lucifer, though.

**TyrantLord** · 01-30-2016, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by Welling_is_pretty

Just know the title so far.

Said title makes me think that is going to be all about Castiel as the Vessel for Lucifer, though.

Could be. Could also be about Lucifer searching for yet ANOTHER new vessel, especially if he doesn't trust Cas not to try to kick him out at some point. Or it could be Lucifer once again trying to recruit Sam, if only to torment him some more.

Or...dare I mention it? Maybe it could be God trying to find his earthly vessel (since 90% of all none-human creatures in supernatural use humans as vessels, god might as well too (I know, I know, budget savers)).

**SuperSheltie** · 01-30-2016, 12:38 PM

My theory then might hold credence as Lucifer (and Michael) needed the Winchester bloodline for their vessels. Again, why only Sam was for Lucifer and Dean, Adam, and John could be Michael's really should be addressed. So, Cas might be deteriorating like Nick was....else, Jimmy is of Winchester bloodline.

Your theory of God needing a vessel is pretty cool.

**TyrantLord** · 01-30-2016, 06:28 PM

Originally Posted by SuperSheltie

My theory then might hold credence as Lucifer (and Michael) needed the Winchester bloodline for their vessels. Again, why only Sam was for Lucifer and Dean, Adam, and John could be Michael's really should be addressed. So, Cas might be deteriorating like Nick was....else, Jimmy is of Winchester bloodline.

Your theory of God needing a vessel is pretty cool.

Sigh. Not really. One thing I wish this show had more of was imagination. Granted, they know how to save budgets, but c'mon. I'd like to see something more than glow-y eyes or simple fang/claws effects once in a while. I was actually shocked at the amount of cgi was used for the banshee and she just wasn't another girl but with fangs. Show me what a demon actually looks like, show me what an angel actually looks like. Show me heaven AND hell in their full, true forms. Even Constantine (The movie) was able to do that for pete's sake.

Oh well. I suppose besides everyone else dying and staying dead (everyone not Winchesters) that always was my other big gripe with the show.

**Charming Rose** · 01-31-2016, 06:41 PM

The first thing I thought when I saw the name of the episode was that the writers are trying to be clever since a lot of the episode will be set on a submarine (a vessel) and it is probably the episode when sam and dean find out that cas is being used as lucifer's vessel. Its a twofer.

**Lipzo** · 01-31-2016, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by TyrantLord

Show me heaven AND hell in their full, true forms. Even Constantine (The movie) was able to do that for pete's sake.

That movie had a budget of something like $100 million for a 120 film compared to Supernatural which would probably have a max of $3-4 million per episode. That means that Constantine had to make every million last only 1.2 minutes on average compared to Supernatural having to making every million last somewhere from 10-13 minutes. That's a massive difference there.

Yes it would be great to see them all in their proper forms but unless they decide to wrap up Supernatural by doing a movie and a full movie budget then it's not going to be possible. There would also be the problem that they have fully established that it isn't possible for human's to comprehend what an Angel's true form is since, hell the average human can't even understand an angel's voice so I'd imagine much the same would apply for demon's.

Also how would you truly depict an angel let alone God? Angel would be showing off their wings and that's about it which isn't going to happen given how they showed the wings as more being a shadow then anything else (always had a gripe about that as it felt like that type of effect would've been better suited for demon's) but what about God. I can't even imagine how that would possibly be and who's to even say that the Angel's have seen his true form.

The one that I would love to see in true form would be Death, I feel like that could be the most badass look of them all seeming that Death did say he would one day reap god so any power that can do that surely would have to look amazing.

**Welling_is_pretty** · 02-02-2016, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by TyrantLord

Could also be about Lucifer searching for yet ANOTHER new vessel

Also a possibility.

Originally Posted by SuperSheltie

My theory then might hold credence as Lucifer (and Michael) needed the Winchester bloodline for their vessels.

I believe (and I am nowhere near sure but I seem to recall) that angels can use certain 'believers' for vessels but that only the Winchester line can be used without 'burning out', as it were. That the boys are special and that by using them for meatsuits Michael and Lucifer won't have to worry about said meatsuits falling apart or being burnt up by angel energy. We've seen Lucifer use non-Winchester vessels before (Nick, for one) but he has stated that it's better to wear a Winchester as they were always meant to be the vessels.

**TyrantLord** · 02-03-2016, 05:55 PM

Originally Posted by Welling_is_pretty

I believe (and I am nowhere near sure but I seem to recall) that angels can use certain 'believers' for vessels but that only the Winchester line can be used without 'burning out', as it were. That the boys are special and that by using them for meatsuits Michael and Lucifer won't have to worry about said meatsuits falling apart or being burnt up by angel energy. We've seen Lucifer use non-Winchester vessels before (Nick, for one) but he has stated that it's better to wear a Winchester as they were always meant to be the vessels.

Or, to be more specific: ARCHANGEL's can only use Winchesters as meat suites with out the human being a true believer...Angels all the way ranked up to sareph (Cas's rank) can use believers as vessels fine. It's the ARCHANGEL power that causes human meat suites to slowly vaporize.

**demosthenes** · 02-03-2016, 11:17 PM

This is the Official Synopsis: "Hoping to find a weapon powerful enough to defeat Amara, dean convinces "Castiel," who is still Lucifer, to send him back in time to the last reported sighting of the Hand of God. Lucifer sees the potential in getting his hands on this weapon so goes along as Castiel and sends Dean to 1944 to the fated submarine mission that sunk the Hand of God. Meanwhile, continuing his charade with Same while they wait for Dean's return, Lucifer plans his next move."

Now we can put to rest the speculation

**Lipzo** · 02-04-2016, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by TyrantLord

Or, to be more specific: ARCHANGEL's can only use Winchesters as meat suites with out the human being a true believer...Angels all the way ranked up to sareph (Cas's rank) can use believers as vessels fine. It's the ARCHANGEL power that causes human meat suites to slowly vaporize.

I didn't think that was exactly the case given that Gabriel had the same meat suit his entire time on the show and that never degraded, granted her was playing the trickster god so he could have made himself appear better but there is still Raphael who never showed any signs of deterioration in any of the meat suits he had.