Lucifer is walking the Earth again. Where is the carnage?

[waynedeath1047]

::sigh:: I know it's kind of pivotal to the plot to keep Lucifer under wraps and the last time he was let out was I guess a massive ritual bending the forces of the universe but does anyone else think that the fact Lucifer is just strolling along and not even one omen has shown itself? Like I said, these writers have great broad strokes but zero vision.

I would have given anything to see the Lake that the ducks were in start boiling killing all every living thing in it. It would have been a great visual. What a missed opportunity.

[sino8r]

I think angels and demons can control their entrances/departures and their omens. Many times we'd see Cas or Crowley pop in with no/little light flicker while other times lights burst or other ominous crap would happen. I think they can control most of the showy stuff. They only seem to do it to show off or when they're pissed off. Plus, like you said without the apocalypse... Maybe he is hiding his power somewhat. Makes sense, I think...

[Lipzo]

The first time he came he didn't have a vessel, he was in his true form with no way to regulate his powers pretty much. Cas in his Angel form burns eyes and is impossible to hear so Lucifer causing everything would make sense. On top of that it was pretty much party central for your standard low level demon, they all would have thought it was 'heaven' with him finally being released.
The moment the Lucifer took on his first host we didn't really see anything mentioned about omen's and that outside of things that the 4 horseman were doing if memory serves.

Just to nitpick the lake should have frozen if anything, not boiled. He stated (I think it was to Sam and Dean right before Sam said yes) that he actually burned cold not hot like everyone said so for that reason alone it makes perfect sense why nothing happened to the lake.

[waynedeath1047]

Yeah, I thought about that too Lipzo. If this were set in the summer or something it would have been cool to see it snow within an acre or two's radius but I think the casual fan wouldn't remember that he burns cold as the fans of this show don't remember a LOT of the things that happened before. But kudos to you for being a stickler for continuity like myself.

[SuperSheltie]

I think Lucifer is hiding who he is, because I believe his goal is to defeat Amara himself and show "daddy" that he really is the good son....

[waynedeath1047]

I think Lucifer is hiding who he is, because I believe his goal is to defeat Amara himself and show "daddy" that he really is the good son....

I really hope they make some much needed connections to Lucifer and Amara and the source of his power, what demons are truly made of, and why exactly Lucifer got corrupted by the Mark's influence. I think we deserve that much because as of right now we have to pick a side. Either we root for Lucifer or we root for Amara. Since her plan hasn't actually manifested itself I am still not sure what to make of her. Maybe the entire universe as we know it is evil. That would be a brilliant head game to play with the audience. What do you think Sheltie and Taft?

[SuperSheltie]

The whole premise of the show, and which Carver continues to mention in interviews, is the relationship between Sam and Dean, which goes far far beyond a brother-bond. Cain and Abel, Michael and Lucifer, and now God and Amara. I still think they should have made The Darkness a male, God's brother...fits more with the whole scheme of brother versus brother. The whole "universe is evil" well, all you have to do is look around and it is pretty much that way. God being MIA is more complicated than Joshua's comment than "He just doesn't think it's His business."

Michael being kept under wraps I hope is just a dramatic ploy...to keep us buzzing about where he is. I think the writers have done a great job this season keeping us on our toes....and keeping us watching and liking the season, as opposed to a few others where we were all like, "okay, so now what? ho hum"....

I think scheduling conflicts might be working in here. I'm not sure what Mark Pellegrino is doing, but all his episodes were packed in a short window of time. I think Misha is doing an incredible job with this. He has got him totally down. I can SEE Mark Pellegrino in him, more so than when Jared was doing it (sorry). So if the other "two" Michael's have commitments, I'm not sure we would accept another vessel being Michael. It doesn't make sense with the bloodlines, etc.

Speaking of bloodlines....how is Lucifer in Cas? I know the whole yes thing and all, and he is an angel's vessel already, but if we don't see some signs of physical deterioration (like with Nick) then perhaps, just perhaps, Jimmy is a Campbell descendant. The only vessel that Michael could safely go into was Dean, Adam, or John (the Winchester MOL line) but not Sam, and the only vessel so far that Lucifer could safely go into was Sam...we have never gotten an alternative for Lucifer like we have with Michael....so either Cas starts to fall apart, or they have some splainin' to do.

[taftvalue]

Oh the universe is evil alright, I think. At least partially. The thing with Amara is, she seems to be incapable of seeing the good and that will inevitably put her at odds with the Winchesters and friends, well more than it already has. It's like Castiel said at the end of Swan Song, all they wanted was more of the same, no Heaven, no Hell. I really like that they haven't made Amara a full blown evil maniac, not yet anyway. She's just as good as a villain as Lucifer, because they both have sympathetic qualities to them. They both have a point, as twisted as it may be. I have to say Amara may actually turn out to be far less evil than Lucifer, despite probably being more destructive.

As for a connection, I think you're on to something. I mean it can't be a coincidence that the Mark turned Dean and Cain into demons and that Lucifer had the Mark on him when he created Lilith (presumably at least). There has to be some sort of connection there. They even look very similiar, visually speaking in their true forms.

What I personally am really looking forward to is seeing if Lucifer actually told Sam the truth in the cage. Lucifer's name translates to light bringing, it would be quite poetical if he truly was let's call it the main component in defeating the Darkness.

About the bloodline, yeah they got some explaining to do there. Castiel's vessel is certainly rather unique though, in that it is the only vessel, that we know of, that's actually empty. It was explained why that is (something about the human soul having to leave the body when it's too damaged) and maybe God putting it together several times has made it more.. resilient?

[Charming Rose]

About the bloodline, yeah they got some explaining to do there. Castiel's vessel is certainly rather unique though, in that it is the only vessel, that we know of, that's actually empty. It was explained why that is (something about the human soul having to leave the body when it's too damaged) and maybe God putting it together several times has made it more.. resilient?

That was my thoughts exactly and something I haven't seen many others mention. I mean, Cas's vessel hasn't been 'Jimmy' since the end of season 4 when he was exploded by Raphael. So ever since then that vessel has been Cas's and Cas's alone. So who's to say that when God reassembled it he didn't alter it in some way to make it unique in containing an angel alone. Cas's vessel has been reassembled by God three times now on the show and we know of at least once him bringing Cas back more powerful then before. So maybe he did the same to his vessel. Granted Lucifer is an archangel and much more powerful then Cas. But hey his vessel was able to contain the power of "God" back in season 7 without instantly imploding so I guess the real question is where does Lucifer fall on that power scale.

It all very interesting speculation and I would love to here more of what you guys think on it.

[SuperSheltie]

Uh, just thinking on what you said, suppose God had recreated Cas specifically to be His vessel should he need one?

[sino8r]

Uh, just thinking on what you said, suppose God had recreated Cas specifically to be His vessel should he need one?

One can only hope John (JD Morgan) will be God's vessel although that is a good thought and decent possibility! Never was one of those who think Chuck is God. Just not buying it. The angel season (when they all fell) mentioned a few times about how strong Castiels vessel is. Did God have something to do with it? Maybe... Is Lucifer strengthening his new vessel with demon blood? Probably... Maybe it will start to deteriorate and we'll be all worried about Cas blowing up again lol! His vessel is definitely the exception to the rule especially after becoming Godstiel. Love the mention about Satan burning cold like at the end of season 5. Very Dantes Inferno with 9th circle of Hell being ice cold due to the absence of God. Amara's game plan is unknown as we all know. She did mention something about undoing all of God's toys or creations etc at the beginning of her appearance if I remember correctly. Is the universe really evil? Hmmm... I've have to say you can't have good without evil. Very cliche but so true. Life is one great grey area as we all know and it's been addressed on Supernatural from time to time. To me... the fact that God ran off and hasn't shown his face since the dawn of man's creation makes me think he's not infallible, almost human is his way of thinking. It seemed to hurt him after he created us and not all of us get along (specifically Lucifer being jealous). Amara knows what his weaknesses are and will break the world just to hurt him. Again, very similar to Lucifer being jealous and wanting to take it out on God by destroying us. No matter who wins this final battle... We're screwed. I'm hoping for a 3rd option via Sam and Dean plus God. Maybe even this is Lucifer's redemption story?! Maybe he saves the day and God forgives him and the Mark of Cain being removed for good somehow allows him not to be a total human-hating douce bag? Hehehe! I've enjoyed this thread! Alot of great ideas and theories! Keep it up fellas!