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Critics get mad when they see anything they dont like about to or actually do succeed. Trust me, being a horror fan, ive seen critics rip my movies apart because they think theyre better than the fans.
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I don't think critics get mad. Critics encompasses a broad range. There are paid shills for the studio, which is why you can always put critically acclaimed on virtually any movie. There are people who will just write something generically good, for even the worst garbage. The opposite is also true. You have critics who essentially just write hit pieces to dismantle "the competition".
More often then not though, you have the "middle guy". I actually read and consider what these critics have to say. If a critique comes out, and has both flaws and things that work, i tend to give it more weight. These reviews get lost in the marketing blitz. The internet age is making them more prevalent, but they can still be buried.
I think another large part of the problem, is the movie going public. They aren't necessarily looking at the things critics do. The DC movie universe is a prime example. It's a mess. It's a horrible, uncoordinated, mess. And some people absolutely LOVE it. There are people that will defend almost every aspect of it. Warner and DC have almost pretty much flat out admitted they have a mess. Every industry "insider" has commented on the mess that is the DCEU. There are still people that don't see it. This isn't necessarily a bad thing. People like what they like. The problem is DC and Warner have seemed to do everything they possible can to drive the wedge as deep as possible, while still trying to insist it's one giant happy fandom. The critics, the good ones at least, point out the problems when they exist. That's their job.
Sort of spoiler ahead:
[SPOILER] Superman is a prime example of the problem a lot of people have with the DC movie universe. For two movies he's been unhappy, mopey, burdened, in pain, and a myriad of other things. A lot of people have complained that he just hasn't been Superman. Justice League, he's suddenly that guy. He's smiling, joking, seems absolutely concerned with the "collateral damage". A lot of issues people had with him are fixed. The problem is, in the context of the narrative arc, you just took one of your key players, and flipped him 180 with no rationale or reason. He's been one thing for two chapters, and in the third, BAM, new guy. This is a legit problem, that the studio has acknowledged somewhat. You can call it a journey if you want, but that journey has parts, and things that NEED to happen. You don't start the journey with the first step, then BOOM, end point. [/SPOILER]
That's just one thing. I'm giving this movie a chance, but the problem is, for every issue DC/Warner have had, their solution is essentially to just keep rolling with the same. It's a money making decision. They want to mine the dough while they can, and ride the wave at it's peak.Last edited by HalJordan4184; 11-18-2017, 07:25 AM.Comment
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I just saw it in 3D and thoroughly enjoyed it. You'd think that this would be a longer movie. Let's hope they release an ultimate addition on Blu-ray. I'd give it a B+ like Thor 3. They were about the same. I saw that Danny Elfman's Batman theme and John William's Superman theme were listed in the credits. I did hear Batman's theme in a couple of parts, but I don't recall hearing the Superman theme. [SPOILER] I guess with the after-credits scene that they intend to bring in the Legion of Doom in the next movie. [/SPOILER]Comment
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I just came back from watching it and I thoroughly enjoyed myself. IMHO it was much improved from BvS. I didn’t check my phone once to see how much longer until the end; Yes, it could have been a little bit longer but, still not complaining.
They made the characters likable. Obviously Bruce and Diana were great and Flash/Aquaman were standouts and Cyborg was good too. I think they gave enough backstory for each of the new characters to be satisfactory. Cyborg out of the three needed/got the necessary amount of screen time. We’re getting/got solo movies for each of the characters but, Cyborg’s movie is still to be seen (yes, they announced a movie back in 2014 but, who can say if it’s still on the docket; including Batman’s; I won’t believe until I see a trailer at the very least).
The villain was a Marvel level villain. When it comes to these movies it always the case that the heroes have to shine. [SPOILER] I’m still trying to figure out who Steppenwolf kept referring to (I know he subtly mentions Darkseid) but, the woman... the only person I can think of is Granny Goodness[/SPOILER]
Anyway...
Some critics used the word “fun” to describe the film; it definitely was. It had me smiling through out. [SPOILER] you couldn’t help smiling when Superman returns. We hadn’t really seen how powerful Superman was compared to everybody else (especially Diana) before. I laughed when Barry was trying to come behind him and you see Superman turn his head, meanwhile we see Barry’s expression all in slow motion
. They got their butts whipped...Bruce is still probably feeling that. The only thing that was weak with Superman’s return was when he finally joins the team at the end...I was hoping for a grander arrival. Something like we start hearing the Superman theme as he appears from the sky or something a bit more dramatic but, instead we hear his voice in the distance and he’s just there. In the trailers someone is talking to Alfred and he says something to the effect that “Lets hope you’re not too late”. I was waiting for that moment but, it never happened.
I also liked the two stingers during the credits. The first was a classic: Barry and Clark about to race; If Barry loses he’d have to treat the team to a brunch, if he won, he could tell everyone he beat Superman. The second stinger was a nice tease of what’s to come: Lex has escaped and is hiding in a yacht waiting for none other than Deathstroke (Joe Mantegna) to join him... So presumably Lex is recruiting for his own team... enter ‘The Legion of Doom’
[/SPOILER]
I’d give the film a 7 out of 10. There are some issues but, again this was a ‘fun’ popcorn flick.Last edited by darkphoenix21; 12-25-2017, 11:15 PM.Comment
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If I had to give this film a rating, it would be a 7/10. It was flawed at times but still a decent, enjoyable flick. Better than Batman v. Superman and Suicide Squad.Comment
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I think "basic" is probably the kindest thing you could say about it.
I won't go into spoilers. Honestly, I don't think there are any spoilers. It is exactly what it looks like and literally nothing else. I don't mean this in an aggressive way, but if I could describe this film using only one word, the word would be "useless". None of the storylines are particularly involved. There's nothing clever about the doomsday plot, the action pieces, or the way they stop the bad guy. It's not a cringe-fest, but there's a vapidity to the whole thing. I did not care about a single thing that happened. Blah.
MoS was a better film. BvS was a more enjoyable film. SS at least had some style. This one is just sort of there.
No thanks, WB.Last edited by Backward Galaxy; 11-20-2017, 12:50 PM.Comment
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It made approximately 96 million in the US box office over the weekend. Which is 70 million less than what BvS made in its opening weekend. Of course there could be a number of reasons for this. The negative reviews, the release of Thor: Ragnarok just 2 weeks ago, the fact that a lot of moviegoers don't know what movie they will get from this studio anymore, an overall audience fatigue towards the superhero genre... The way the movie holds up in the coming weeks will tell a better story. Nevertheless, they probably expected more after Wonder Woman's success and momentum.
Its worldwide box office revenue stands at 281 million.Comment
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I thought there was a post saying WB/DCEU wanted at least something like $115 million on opening weekend or they'd change course again. Guess we'll see. What I don't understand is why they don't make movies that fit to the characters. Batman dark and brooding, Superman bright and inspirational, Flash lighthearted and funny, etc. No they are looking for a fixed mold for ALL their movies even if the characters don't fit the mold.Last edited by DoubleDevil; 11-20-2017, 05:17 PM.Comment
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I enjoyed it, it was fun, an improvement from MOS and BvS, not because its a better movie, its not, its a mess, you can tell there were two very different directors and a change in direction mixed in but because it doesnt take itself too seriously, it gets the characters closer to the comics. Did Supes do a 180, yes, with no development, I guess, dying can change your perspective, I dont know but I do know we already had to get rid of the Snyder broodfest Superman and there are only so many movies to do it before they really loose the audience. The plot seemed like the result of a mid production change of course, Snyder was probably going more doomsdayish but then was asked to lighten up and then he quit (was quited?) and Wheadon took an already filmed film, he could rewrite and reshoot only so much, he was time capped... considering all the things happening in production, its wonder it came out half decent. The stories they set up for the new characters look cool Mera and Aquaman meeting was cool, linking the 4th world and mother boxes to Cyborg, they definitely set up Flashpoint (not sure I want to see Flashpoint but I do think it can be used to retconn a couple of things that were absolutely screwed in past films), Superman was finally a good guy, a happy guy, comfortable in his skin, I would have loved the journey but could we afford to see it at this point? Batman was on and off, some good moments, others he looked like he didnt fit, since they didnt underpower villains or other heroes like in JL cartoon (for example, I remember Batman kicking Darkseid and making him stumble), so he seemed out of place at times, more time could have had him more like a tactician than a fighter, more cloack and dagger and less brawler.
Still I enjoyed the movie, came out happy which is more than I can say about MOS and BvS. How can I explain this, its like watching your 3 kids graduate, one is a doctor, the other is a neurosurgeon and the third one is a 4th grade teacher, yet the happiest of them all, so you are happier for him than for the other two even if they are technically "better".Comment
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It's definitely below their expectations. The actual number for the opening weekend was 93 million dollars. Unless I'm mistaken it's the worst opening for a DCEU movie. And on Monday it suffered a 66.5% drop, which is the biggest first Monday drop for any DCEU movie. And this was the movie that was supposed to be the culmination of the previous ones...
You pose an interesting question. At this point I think they are too confused to create separate tones. All they know is that "We have to give the audience jokes!" and that "Superman must smile and wear a bright suit!". Just course correcting and hoping the critics will finally love them. At the same time, if Snyder's plan for the DCEU was a dark tone for every movie, that was also seriously flawed. Because while it would have worked for Batman and Suicide Squad (pity we never got to see the film's initial cut), it wouldn't have worked for Flash or Aquaman. For what it's worth, I thought the tone for Superman and Wonder Woman in their origin movies was ideal in terms of honoring these iconic characters, but also giving them a fresh twist. Funnily enough, WB didn't have a chance to interfere with these movies a lot and they were carried out as Snyder and Jenkins envisioned them...Last edited by costas22; 11-22-2017, 06:46 AM.Comment
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I found the movie to be enjoyable overall. It is essentially an average superhero popcorn flick, like many others in this genre, but one that you wouldn't feel the need to rush out to see again immediately.
Whenever you have these superhero team movies, they tend to have the risk of highlighting some heroes over others. This was as true for the Avengers flicks as it is for JL. JL did try to give the newbies -- Aquaman, Cyborg and Flash -- some individual character moments, especially since this was to be their "introductory" film. If anything, I wanted to see more of Aquaman and Cyborg, but time restraints definitely cut back their presence more than I would have liked.
With WW's recent success, maybe the audience was expecting to see a lot more of Diana and were let down that she was just part of the band? (Even though she was one of the team's co-captains, Bruce being the other one.)
I'd say that the movie was not the alleged "trainwreck" some critics (and the fickle fandom) have been claiming. Was it the best superhero movie ever made by DC? No, and the box office so far would reflect this. But it wasn't awful. I would agree with the point that some of the critics out there --especially those who wear their 'Marvel is the greatest!' biases on their sleeves-- who, having discovered that JL isn't as terrible as they believed it to be, would still tend to rate it lower to (for lack of a better phrase) retain their Marvel-is-superior street cred among their readers/viewers ... rather than admit that JL wasn't so bad and had some good moments.
I think JL did a decent job of beginning the process of trying to pull away or balance out the dark mood/tone they've been inexplicably perpetuating in the DC film franchise since MoS. They're not there yet, but they appear to be making a long-overdue distinction between their "dark" superheroes and "light" ones. (Apologies to Superman fans, I don't feel he's turn a corner on this, even now.)
Maybe the DCU finally gets that not all their superheroes have to be "DK trilogy" dark and brooding -- the Nolan films' legacy and success being IMO likely the biggest reason the studios believed, for too long, that their whole DCU should be dark and gritty.
This tone works for Batman for obvious reasons and even Diana was appropriately more end-is-nigh serious here with the stakes involved. This was balanced out in JL in part by the Flash and Aquaman's humour and levity. And being more "fun" and amusing was the stuff the Marvel fans were saying DCU needed more of and well, they mostly got their request in JL. I would find it funny and hypocritical if they now knock JL for including elements that they looove to see in Marvel flicks, especially with Whedon's fingerprints (briefly) also on JL. It's probably the DCU's most "Marvel" flick to date.
This doesn't change the fact that the film is just an average one with few surprises. In the post-Nolan DCU, I probably enjoyed BvS a bit more.
It did still make me anticipate an Aquaman movie and I am looking forward to the next WW flick and yes, the Batman one too (though I will probably console myself with the notion that TDK trilogy will remain my definitive Batman silver screen interpretation for some time).Comment
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i watched this lastnight. while it wasn't terrible by any mean,s it wasn't amazing either. It was fairly good. My biggest complaint was it just seemed that they cut so much of the story out, so some references never quite panned out or made complete sense, though i was able to put a lot of it all together it just seemed that a few payoff's were missing or incomplete. I do hope that there will be an extended cut on blu-ray. the on thing that they seemed to do right is the world building. While the stories themselves may not be the best as of yet.(i am including all of the "current" dc movies in this.) The world in which they are attempting to tell them seems pretty solid. So i just hope they get better and better.Comment
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So, here's my full take on this movie.
It was completely cookie cutter. I'll echo Backward Galaxy's comments, in that this was so formulaic, and lacking any sort of depth, that it just sort of exists. I wasn't surprised by anything. It literally plays, beat for beat, exactly like you'd expect.
Action sequence, emotional moment, light hearted humor, action sequence, emotional moment, light hearted humor, and repeat ad nauseam. It's the literal thing Kevin Smith talked about when he describes his experience working on Superman in the 90's. Producers who come in with a rigid plan of this is how movies have to be. This movie was it. Every X pages we need an action beat. Offset that by every X pages for an emotional beat. Offset that by every X pages for a comedy beat.
Now to be fair, while watching this movie, it was enjoyable. I laughed, I got caught up in some of the story. The problem was, there wasn't a lot to really sink into you. [SPOILER] Take Cyborg for instance. He's conflicted and in pain in the beginning. Within like half an hour, issues resolved, he's fully accepted his place, and is ready to go. Here was a character who had interesting possibilities, but that now, will just seem like a regression if brought up again. They just sort of neatly wrapped the arc up in a bow, without ever getting into it.
Superman was another problem for me. I LIKED him in this movie. That's sort of the problem, as he's a completely different guy than he has been. Where was this Superman during his own movie, and BvS? If this was the Superman we'd been getting all along, I'd have been happier. Showing up in this movie though, he's just confusing. Not only does he WANT to save the day, he was protecting people from collateral damage from it. It was like they addressed every complaint heard about Superman all at once, and it makes it out of place. They doubled down on the hope aspect, while on the same hand, BvS was a movie all about how humanity, at least in large part, wasn't buying that part of him at all. He wasn't a uniting inspiring force, he was a cause for fear, and geopolitical upheaval. [/SPOILER]
Now on to small gripes. Flash was pretty good. Ezra Miller was funny, charming, and awkward. I did take issue with how they portrayed his powers in the movie. He was literally shooting lightning everywhere when he ran, and causing small explosions from lightning strikes. At one point, he literally uses his powers as a jump starter to get the team power. It seems like he can't run without causing electricity to wreak havoc all around him. It just makes it odd for me then during the [SPOILER] jail scene, when he draws all over the guy. No lightning. [/SPOILER] It's just a little grip, but one that kind of pulled me out of the movie a little.
Aquaman was just cool. He's a character that hopefully gets explored better in his solo movie. I liked Jason Momoa in this role, and I didn't have a ton of complaints about him at all. I even liked the "Do you talk to fish?" jokes.
The one thing that does interest me, is Diana becoming the moral compass of the team. This is a role traditionally held by Superman, who serves to reign in Batman and Wonder Woman's darker tendencies. The Amazons in the movie universe though aren't quite like the comic Amazons. While Diana can be an inspiration, the best line I can think of was Bruce Wayne's from Kingdom Come, "Teach them peace, and if they don't accept it, force it down their throats at the point of a sword."
All in all, it was a 5 out of 10. It wasn't a total let down, but it didn't blow me away. It was just trying to play it too safe. To the point, I almost didn't need to see it, as you could guess every twist, with 100% accuracy. I'll be both surprised and not if we get a sequel.Comment
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I enjoyed it, and it wasn't as bad as the critics said it was. I honestly think that Wonder woman's scenes was the best parts of the movie, especially the bank robbery scene. You really got the sense that she was truly equal to superman in a lot of ways. But, the downside is that they seemed to be using her as a female superman... using her to stand in for superman in uniting the team together and being the moral compass. as Hal up above me mentioned.
She's typically more of a pragmatic super-heroine than one who's a highly moral person. Not that she doesn't have her own set of morals, but you know what I mean.
For the people commenting on how different this superman was-- I think the problem lies in movies like BVS, where they focused too much on Batman's side instead of developing Superman as an character. Had they actually focused more on how Superman had developed into a beacon of hope in BVS then his death and resurrection would had far more impact in not only BVS, but in the JL movie too. Plus, this new side of Superman would had then made more sense. Because he would had a whole character arc where he changed from a brooding hero into a beacon of hope in three movies.
I do agree that the world-building in this movie was great. This paves the path for other movies out there, like the WW second movie and the Aquaman movie. In fact this movie was like a setup chapter in a long book... where it sets the world stage for what is to follow.
Sadly, it does have the flaw of following a very generic superhero team-up story... but in a way I guess that isn't so bad in it's way.Comment
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