Would Lucifer win in the Apocalypse?

[emirates]

After Season 5, I was always wondering what would've happened if both Sam and Dean did say yes, and the fight actually went down. The Angels told Michael would win, Demons believed Lucifer would win. After last nights episode, when Lucifer was talking about the archangels and he mentioned how prison life didn't really do wonders for Michael and how he's sitting in a corner somewhere, I thought about if that meant that Lucifer was kicking Michael's ass up and down the cage? Was Lucifer really terrorizing Michael all that time, and that's why Michael never sent out any messages through the cage?

If that is true, then that surely means that Lucifer would win in the Big Fight, and that the Apoclaypse would be his? I wanted to hear your takes on it. Who do you think would win?

[taftvalue]

Lucifer had Death as his *****, Lucifer would have won, simply due to being unable to die.

Then again, recent developments have shown us that the Archangels actually predate Death, seeing as how Amara doesn't even know who he was... so maybe his protection didn't mean that much against a foe like Michael after all..

I still think Lucifer would have won, because he would have fought dirty for sure..

[SuperSheltie]

Lucifer is going to have to lay low for a bit because angels can recognize other angels in their vessels. Crowley I think is going to be seeking out Sam and Dean for help in this. Not only is Casifer going to attempt to take over hell, Crowley is pissed that he killed Rowena. For all their big bravado about hating each other, it was apparent that the mother-son bond was deep and it's going to fuel Crowley's revenge. I also see Rowena coming back as a demon eventually. Her loyalty might still be with Lucifer, but now that he killed her? Well, she won't let that one go.

As far as the apocalypse goes, I don't think that's Lucifer's game now. He's going to want to get rid of Amara and the angels. I wouldn't be surprised if he is hoping in his twisted little hurt child mind that if he gets rid of all of this "stuff" when God does return, he will be left standing and it will be just him and daddy again.

I think the reason Michael is being described as a whimpering mess is because they don't quite know what to do with him yet and are stalling until they do. Not sure what the actor who played Adam is doing, but he might have other commitments.

[taftvalue]

Casifer?

I misread that as Casper.

Spooky, lol.

[demosthenes]

I think the reason Michael is being described as a whimpering mess is because they don't quite know what to do with him yet and are stalling until they do. Not sure what the actor who played Adam is doing, but he might have other commitments.

I agree with this for sure. I think they are leaving it open ended with Michael just in case.

[sino8r]

I agree with this for sure. I think they are leaving it open ended with Michael just in case.

So true... Might useful to wrap up this story arc later. Plus, think about it... Michael was used to ruling heaven. Now he's locking up in the universe's worst prison cell with his bratty younger brother. Mentally isn't handling it very well. Lucifer has had many thousands of years to adapt. Makes sense to me.

As far as who would win the Apocalypse... I'm going against the grain and saying Michael. Sure Lu had Death but we have seen now he wasn't all he claimed to be. I was going with the idea before that Death was God's brother before we even heard of the Darkness but am beginning to believe that Death was just like the Archangel of the reapers. He didn't really have as much power as he claimed. He just bragged to Dean and couldn't back it up lol! He was killed rather easily. Plus, Michael had Raphael and all the hosts of heaven at his disposal. Plus if Lucifer was starting to win beginning scorched earth policy.... I'd have to say Gabriel and God would have had to jump in the fight without Sam and Dean. I don't see how Lucifer would win. It would be him and Death vs the rest. God or Michael could have broken his link to Lucifer just like GodCas did. He'd be outnumbered literally and in power. Just my two cents...

[demosthenes]

As far as who would win the Apocalypse... I'm going against the grain and saying Michael. Sure Lu had Death but we have seen now he wasn't all he claimed to be. I was going with the idea before that Death was God's brother before we even heard of the Darkness but am beginning to believe that Death was just like the Archangel of the reapers. He didn't really have as much power as he claimed. He just bragged to Dean and couldn't back it up lol! He was killed rather easily. Plus, Michael had Raphael and all the hosts of heaven at his disposal. Plus if Lucifer was starting to win beginning scorched earth policy.... I'd have to say Gabriel and God would have had to jump in the fight without Sam and Dean. I don't see how Lucifer would win. It would be him and Death vs the rest. God or Michael could have broken his link to Lucifer just like GodCas did. He'd be outnumbered literally and in power. Just my two cents...

I agree. Michael would win hands down. You pointed out something that we just realized this season: The archangels predate death. Death use to say he was as old as god, maybe older. Then why doesn't the darkness even know you? lol. plus, it was the archangels and god that tricked/stopped her.

Also, the lore says Michael beat Luci back in the day. Michael is second to God in the hierarchy and that has been canon on this show.

Can Lucifer beat the darkness? No. Pretty sure he's just being Lucifer and getting by and making deals to survive here. She's equal to god according to her.

[Axalon]

I agree. Michael would win hands down. You pointed out something that we just realized this season: The archangels predate death. Death use to say he was as old as god, maybe older. Then why doesn't the darkness even know you? lol. plus, it was the archangels and god that tricked/stopped her.

Also, the lore says Michael beat Luci back in the day. Michael is second to God in the hierarchy and that has been canon on this show.

Can Lucifer beat the darkness? No. Pretty sure he's just being Lucifer and getting by and making deals to survive here. She's equal to god according to her.

Lucifer says that he can beat her, but all we truly know is that he was the one that kept the mark which entrapped her. That doesn't mean that he was the one that landed the final blow which allowed her to be locked away. It was clearly a joint effort by all the Archangels and God himself.

As for if Lucifer would win against Michael, no way in hell! As it was pointed out already, Michael is second only to God in terms of the power level class in Heaven. Michael would have beaten Lucifer to a pulp. Especially considering that he was the one that put Lucifer into the cage in the first place. It would have been cool to see a real fight between Lucifer and Michael, but alas we weren't that lucky. Lucifer says that Michael's not doing well in the cage. I don't believe that for a second. To be honest, I'm surprised as to why Michael hasn't destroyed Lucifer already. Lucifer has no vessel since Sam's gone, I'd think that Michael would take advantage of that and wipe out Lucifer. What are your thoughts on this guys?

[sino8r]

Lucifer says that he can beat her, but all we truly know is that he was the one that kept the mark which entrapped her. That doesn't mean that he was the one that landed the final blow which allowed her to be locked away. It was clearly a joint effort by all the Archangels and God himself.

As for if Lucifer would win against Michael, no way in hell! As it was pointed out already, Michael is second only to God in terms of the power level class in Heaven. Michael would have beaten Lucifer to a pulp. Especially considering that he was the one that put Lucifer into the cage in the first place. It would have been cool to see a real fight between Lucifer and Michael, but alas we weren't that lucky. Lucifer says that Michael's not doing well in the cage. I don't believe that for a second. To be honest, I'm surprised as to why Michael hasn't destroyed Lucifer already. Lucifer has no vessel since Sam's gone, I'd think that Michael would take advantage of that and wipe out Lucifer. What are your thoughts on this guys?

I gotta say Lucifer is in control in the cage. It's his home turf for thousands of years. He's used to it. Michael can't handle prison life lol! That's the only reason why things happened the way they did imo. The funny thing is in Judeo Christian lore, Lucifer is the most powerful angel and Michael is second. The show wanted to have continuity with both sets of brothers and reversed things. Makes sense what they did though. I still can't wait to see what happens with everything on the show. Maybe since Lucifer is in charge of the mark(lock) he'll figure out something. Maybe God will fix or alter the cage so that they can both be shoved in or something. Maybe they will destroy each other. Who knows... All I can say is that it will be fun watching it happen! Hopefully...

[emirates]

So true... Might useful to wrap up this story arc later. Plus, think about it... Michael was used to ruling heaven. Now he's locking up in the universe's worst prison cell with his bratty younger brother. Mentally isn't handling it very well. Lucifer has had many thousands of years to adapt. Makes sense to me.

As far as who would win the Apocalypse... I'm going against the grain and saying Michael. Sure Lu had Death but we have seen now he wasn't all he claimed to be. I was going with the idea before that Death was God's brother before we even heard of the Darkness but am beginning to believe that Death was just like the Archangel of the reapers. He didn't really have as much power as he claimed. He just bragged to Dean and couldn't back it up lol! He was killed rather easily. Plus, Michael had Raphael and all the hosts of heaven at his disposal. Plus if Lucifer was starting to win beginning scorched earth policy.... I'd have to say Gabriel and God would have had to jump in the fight without Sam and Dean. I don't see how Lucifer would win. It would be him and Death vs the rest. God or Michael could have broken his link to Lucifer just like GodCas did. He'd be outnumbered literally and in power. Just my two cents...

That could be correct, but I believe that Death and the other archangels would have no business in that fight. Michael and Lucifer seemed like they wanted it all to come down to the two of them, with no interferences.

@axalon I don't know... It was pointed out that Lucifer was God's favourite angel. This could mean I guess, that Lucifer was 2nd in command, until he rebelled of course, which then became Michaels spot. It all just seems that Michael was choixe number 2 after Lucifer rebelled. This kind of looks to me that Lucifer is actually stronger.

The angels did say that Michael would win 100%, but I suppose it was just the way that they were taught throughout their existance. Demons were sure that Lucifer would win.

[taftvalue]

I think Lucifer is actually more powerful than Michael. Death said he was 'God's most valued lieutenant' and it was Lucifer who was chosen to carry the Mark, not Michael.

If anything they're evenly matched imo.