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  1. #31
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I wonder who will marry them? If Felicity is serious about her Jewish faith, they should be married under the chuppah by a rabbi, but then I think Ollie has to convert. Or maybe the American rabbinate is less strict than the Israeli one about this? Or maybe they will choose a non-confessional wedding ceremony to make things easier? Questions abound in view of the wedding of the century!
    I know you're joking @evaba but please, wedding of the century? It's 2015 for god's sake! We've got another 85 years in this century, you really think that Oliver/Felicity is going to be the biggest, most important wedding of this century? It's like when I watch/listen to the news and hear about the worst storm of the century or the hottest summer of the century or anything else they try to hype as being the biggest, worst or most important thing of the century when there's bound to be bigger, worse AND more important things happening in the next 85 years.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    I know you're joking @evaba but please, wedding of the century? It's 2015 for god's sake! We've got another 85 years in this century, you really think that Oliver/Felicity is going to be the biggest, most important wedding of this century? It's like when I watch/listen to the news and hear about the worst storm of the century or the hottest summer of the century or anything else they try to hype as being the biggest, worst or most important thing of the century when there's bound to be bigger, worse AND more important things happening in the next 85 years.
    I was being a tad sarcastic, but maybe I wasn't able to convey that! In fact, if you don't ship a couple, events such as the marriage proposal in "Dark Waters", or the upcoming wedding, are not really earth-shattering at all. I even thought Ollie's public marriage proposal was pretty cheesy, but maybe that's because I think such moments should be private, rather than conducted in front of an audience of political supporters (who only seemed to have been summoned to witness the proposal!). On the other hand, the anticipated wedding it will keep the Olicity shipper fandom busy and happy, and it will undoubtedly create a lot of Internet buzz. I guess I would prefer if the producers/writers would put more effort into writing good plots/drama, than relying on cheap cliffhangers (I think everyone knows by now that Felicity won't die, and that the repercussions of her shooting won't last for long), or anticipated events which are mainly of interest to the shipper fandom.

  3. #33
    Posting Pro DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I was being a tad sarcastic, but maybe I wasn't able to convey that! In fact, if you don't ship a couple, events such as the marriage proposal in "Dark Waters", or the upcoming wedding, are not really earth-shattering at all. I even thought Ollie's public marriage proposal was pretty cheesy, but maybe that's because I think such moments should be private, rather than conducted in front of an audience of political supporters (who only seemed to have been summoned to witness the proposal!). On the other hand, the anticipated wedding it will keep the Olicity shipper fandom busy and happy, and it will undoubtedly create a lot of Internet buzz. I guess I would prefer if the producers/writers would put more effort into writing good plots/drama, than relying on cheap cliffhangers (I think everyone knows by now that Felicity won't die, and that the repercussions of her shooting won't last for long), or anticipated events which are mainly of interest to the shipper fandom.
    Actually you were quite clear, I just had to let off a real life rant about how everything now has to be "THE" event of the century when we still have so much of this century left to experience.

  4. #34
    avi by Keiko Neverending Story's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I even thought Ollie's public marriage proposal was pretty cheesy, but maybe that's because I think such moments should be private, rather than conducted in front of an audience of political supporters
    I agree. And that's one of the reasons I don't like this ship.
    Nothing about their relationship so far has been private. And it seems that doesn't bother Oliver and Felicity at all.
    Their willingness to share their feelings about their relationship to everyone and in front of everyone really weirds me out.

    And the Olicity "light" theme is still going on... But maybe that's a discussion for another thread.

    Anyway, I thought Laurel was great in this episode.

  5. #35
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I wonder who will marry them? If Felicity is serious about her Jewish faith, they should be married under the chuppah by a rabbi, but then I think Ollie has to convert. Or maybe the American rabbinate is less strict than the Israeli one about this? Or maybe they will choose a non-confessional wedding ceremony to make things easier? Questions abound in view of the wedding of the century!
    Martin Stein he performed the wedding ceremony of Ronnie Raymond and Caitlin Snow on the Flash.

  6. #36
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    I agree. And that's one of the reasons I don't like this ship.
    Nothing about their relationship so far has been private. And it seems that doesn't bother Oliver and Felicity at all.
    Their willingness to share their feelings about their relationship to everyone and in front of everyone really weirds me out.
    I think this public display of eternal love and affection is pretty odd as well. We saw the same thing in the end of season three, where Oliver declared his love for Felicity in front of his arch-nemesis (Merlyn), his former flame (Laurel), Felicity's former boyfriend (Ray) and so on. It just seemed so out of place to make such a declaration, especially for a generally restrained man like Oliver, although I can understand his need to explain why he was hanging up his cape. Of course, the fans of the couple might retort that Felicity's "light" has made him a changed man, who is not afraid to divulge his deepest feelings to complete strangers (as he did at that political rally).

    I guess I just feel like I'm watching an Oliver clone sometimes nowadays, rather than the Oliver I fell for in season one...you know, a guy who hides engagement rings in soufflé and fall down on his knees in front of mass of political supporters. It felt a bit like those public displays of marital bliss that American politicians like to indulge in!

  7. #37
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Coming back with a longer post. As I said it was an episode which I truly enjoyed. Mostly because it was actually about "Arrow" stuff, not some LOT-crossover-whatever-set-up. Also, for me, it had a glimpse of the atmosphere this show used to have at the beginning. That short scene with Green Arrow-in-rage, trying desperately to find out where Thea, Felicity and Dig are held, was more intense than any fights Ollie had in this season.

    The proposal and the stuff related etc. had to be addressed sooner or later. And surprisingly, while I found annoying almost everything about Olicity which was presented in the crossover last week (as well as in 4x06), here, at least for me, it was rather bearable. Still utilizing the tv tropes I'm not fond of, still soap opera which I wished "Arrow" as the tv show was free from (lines like "light of my life" just doesn't sound good to my ears, no matter what fandom or pairing we speak of), still this pairing is not my cup of tea, but it didn't turned as bad as it could have. I guess nobody here found this cliffhanger particularly surprising and believes that Felicity might actually died there (despite Blood from the Mouth tv trope). At first I though that maybe Felicity is going to get shot on that Christmas Tree Lighting Ceremony (shot aimed for Oliver injuring her by chance), but the montage in the end, albeit it was easy to predict what is going to occur the moment they got into that limo, turned out better. And I'm not even going to ask how it's possible that Oliver is not wounded during such an outcome of events. Regarding other scenes with Felicity - I found genuinely funny when she sees her mother and Quentin ("I can unseen this", "Don't tell Laurel" - it was silly, yes, and I guess it's out for character for Quentin to get into paring over the span of two weeks, but whatever).

    The only thing which I found extremely annoying was the fact that they completely downplayed the importance of Thea and Dig. Ollie's sister and close friend were also there, about to die, but - guess what! - it was shown as if there were not there at all.

    Malcolm was great in this episode, Quentin's reaction to seeing him alive - priceless. He had also great one-liners here, and he looked very good in Green Arrow's outfit (it fit him much better that Arrow's costume fit Roy, as he is similar in height and built to Oliver). Liked his team up with Black Canary. But liked also that Ollie was not pushed in the background into his own show. Despite not being in the costume for most part, he kicked some asses here and he even saved Malcolm in dire situation. One can discuss if taunting Darhk like this, in the broad light was a smart move (not, it was not, Ollie), but I guess it's fits to the leitmotif of the current season.

    Some good and very strong scenes with Laurel and Quentin. I'm glad that they didn't drag on the drama with her finding out about Quentin working for Darhk and being the double agent right now, but made them deal with it right away. I was truly worried that Lance might die here, but fortunately his life get prolonged for a little while. There was even Quentin-to-the-rescue scene. Nice one. Dig had also some good, family-drama-trust related scenes with his brother which I enjoyed. And the opening scene with cleaning the Bay (turned into a catastrophe of course) served its purpose as well.

    I liked Darhk's portrayal in this episode, he was really omnious in this one and the fact that he has a family - a wife and a daughter, who are probably unaware about his bad guy activities, adds him an interesting layer. I wonder if he is going to blackmail Ollie later on again. It would be a good subplot.

    Guess Oliver's words about a few weeks spend in the cage and changing the perspective thanks to it foreshadows what awaits him in the flashbacks. There were good ones and it seems that hard time awaits him on the island (good observation, Haggard01, with those whip like slashes on his back). Again. Really looking forward to island-focused episode this season. Also, we know where Ollie got those bit marks on his side/hip (yes, stupid, a shark would torn him apart, but again - whatever).

    Overall I liked this episode. Still, my favorite mid-season finale is "Three Ghosts", but I mark this one as a watchable one and one of better points of this part of the season.

  8. #38
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I think this public display of eternal love and affection is pretty odd as well. We saw the same thing in the end of season three, where Oliver declared his love for Felicity in front of his arch-nemesis (Merlyn), his former flame (Laurel), Felicity's former boyfriend (Ray) and so on. It just seemed so out of place to make such a declaration, especially for a generally restrained man like Oliver, although I can understand his need to explain why he was hanging up his cape. Of course, the fans of the couple might retort that Felicity's "light" has made him a changed man, who is not afraid to divulge his deepest feelings to complete strangers (as he did at that political rally).

    I guess I just feel like I'm watching an Oliver clone sometimes nowadays, rather than the Oliver I fell for in season one...you know, a guy who hides engagement rings in soufflé and fall down on his knees in front of mass of political supporters. It felt a bit like those public displays of marital bliss that American politicians like to indulge in!
    Totally agree. It feels out of the characters also for me, since it was clearly stared that Ollie has problems with speaking about his feelings and expressing them. What's more post-island-Ollie was presented to be extremely withdrawn. So yes, I think he would choose to propose in private, not with in the middle of crowd. Guess it is probably supposed to mean that he is now changed, more open, more at peace with himself man etc. (not very likely, but well, after season 2 all of probability, how the characters behave etc. fell out of the window so nothing else could be expected in this matter).

  9. #39
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    Just rewatched the episode again (this is the first episode I've done more than one rewatch on this season, that's how impressed I am with it being more like an Arrow episode). A couple things spring to mind here:

    1. Damien Darhk is a threat to both Oliver Queen and the Green Arrow, without knowing they are the same man. He is the ONLY villain to have become this kind of villain for Oliver durin his vigilante/hero career. Malcolm was never a threat to Oliver Queen (excepting the assassin bit in 1x05, and if he was really trying he would have done it himself, IMO), but the Dark Archer was a threat to the Hood. Slade Wilson knew Oliver Queen was the Arrow and targeted him as a whole. Ra's Al Ghul was intent on stripping away the dual identity and leave only the Hood (and that's who Oliver would have truly been). Damien, on the other hand, uses different tactics for the two men, and Malcolm dressing up as Green Arrow helps further the idea of Damien unknowingly fighting a war against a man on two fronts.

    2. There was a serious homage to the season 1 finale in this episode. In "Sacrifice", Oliver fires an arrow during his duel with Merlyn on the roof of Merlyn Global. Malcolm catches it, and I believe he says something about Oliver not learning anything right before the arrow explodes. A very similar situation happened in this episode with the arrow Darhk stopped mid-air.

  10. #40
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    Since they showed Darhk's family, do you think Ollie is going to go after them?

  11. #41
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    Public proposals are icky and often embarrassing, unless you know for sure that the answer is going to be 'yes'. In this case, Oliver knew that Felicity was going to say yes. The public proposal also played into the theme of hope and light that Oliver wanted to project to the city.

    Trying to protect a loved one was another theme in this episode. Oliver and Felicity went back and forth on his need to keep her away from the dangers that came with his vigilante lifestyle (and so ironic that she was targeted because of her relationship to Oliver, not the Green Arrow) and when she finally convinced her that it was her choice to make, he proposed. The fact that they talked about it as adults and reached a solution is what makes them one of the more mature relationships on TV.

    Laurel and Quentin also reached an agreement on Quentin's need to protect Laurel and Laurel being an adult and able to make her own decisions. And yet when he showed up with the cavalry/police squad, she thanked him for being there. This is the adult, mature Laurel the show has finally figured out how to write after 77 episodes of mistakes.

    Malcolm was also there to protect Thea, and they too reached a father/daughter compromise when Thea said she would be careful around Damian Darhk.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Totally agree. It feels out of the characters also for me, since it was clearly stared that Ollie has problems with speaking about his feelings and expressing them. What's more post-island-Ollie was presented to be extremely withdrawn.
    The guy who drunkenly peed on a cop car and told Sara not to worry about Laurel finding out she's on the boat seemed to be expressing his feelings quite freely. Pre-island Ollie was so shallow, the only time I remember him having deep feelings about anything was in the scene with Moira when he found out that the baby had miscarried, and I think Moira understood.
    Post-island Oliver suffers/suffered from PTSD, the producers have said.


    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    Just rewatched the episode again (this is the first episode I've done more than one rewatch on this season, that's how impressed I am with it being more like an Arrow episode). A couple things spring to mind here: .
    Good spotting, I don't remember much about Sacrifice but it's nice to see that both Oliver and Malcolm can learn. It's interesting that Damian Darhk is targeting both Oliver Queen and the Green Arrow as separate people.
    Last edited by katakombs; 12-11-2015 at 04:19 PM.

  12. #42
    avi by Keiko Neverending Story's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by katakombs View Post
    Public proposals are icky and often embarrassing, unless you know for sure that the answer is going to be 'yes'. In this case, Oliver knew that Felicity was going to say yes. The public proposal also played into the theme of hope and light that Oliver wanted to project to the city.
    All the same to me.

    And Oliver already had proved his point about "not giving up" and "continuing living" when he maintained the holiday party and the meeting at the end of the episode.

    He didn't need to add the engagement in front of everyone in the end. Such things should happen in private. Even if he already knew she would say "yes".
    Felicity didn't seem to mind the public proposal but there was still a risk she would have not appreciated it.

    But heh, Oliver and Felicity love to display their love openly. That's not new. It is just so weird and embarassing to me.
    Their relationship is nothing but private. They are just so open and "in your face" that I feel they don't share a thing that is just "theirs".

    Mind you, I can understand it kinda makes sense from a story POV but from the characters' POV, it is still irksome for me.

  13. #43
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicbimbo View Post
    Since they showed Darhk's family, do you think Ollie is going to go after them?
    I don't think Oliver would go after family members but if Thea died, Malcolm would go after them.

  14. #44
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverending Story View Post
    All the same to me.

    And Oliver already had proved his point about "not giving up" and "continuing living" when he maintained the holiday party and the meeting at the end of the episode.

    He didn't need to add the engagement in front of everyone in the end. Such things should happen in private. Even if he already knew she would say "yes".
    Felicity didn't seem to mind the public proposal but there was still a risk she would have not appreciated it.

    But heh, Oliver and Felicity love to display their love openly. That's not new. It is just so weird and embarassing to me.
    Their relationship is nothing but private. They are just so open and "in your face" that I feel they don't share a thing that is just "theirs".

    Mind you, I can understand it kinda makes sense from a story POV but from the characters' POV, it is still irksome for me.
    Couples who are so public like that tend to either be in the honeymoon stage of their relationship, or tend to be insecure about their relationship so feel the need to prove to others that their relationship is strong. Basically, it comes off as overcompensating.

  15. #45
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    And here I thought she already had so many superpowers that they are more than enough as it is! Genius intelligence, ability to run a huge company along with helping the team 24/7, ability to hack into everything in a few seconds (even cranes!) extensive knowledge concerning everything under the sun (medicine, ancient Egypt, you name it!). Does she really need any more superpowers or positive traits in order to be the quintessential member of the team?
    Her ability to hack into anything within seconds using a tablet is quite amazing. But I agree, she has a lots of off the chart capabilities and there is no need to add new ones but I wouldn't be surprised if they do.

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