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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    "Sark Waters?"
    Maybe Craig meant "Shark Waters"???

  2. #17
    Forum Whiz DoubleDevil's Avatar
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    I read the "Live Discussion" thread and the episode perked my interest so I did watch it. How am I supposed to rate something that I couldn't watch most of it due to nausea? While I'm not much of a Donna fan, Quentin and Donna arriving at the party could've been a cute scene but I had to leave the moment I saw Felicity because I knew it was going to be nauseating. A HUGE plus point, the showrunners have proven they can have characters deal with issues maturely as shown with Laurel and Quentin. Just as huge is the disappointment that they choose not to. Another wasted hour of my life although I was able to get a few things done every time Felicity was on screen.

  3. #18
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    Ok here's my review. Now instead of going into the yea Felicity's finally dead or oh no it's a fake out, I'm going to wait for the return episode in January so we can properly figure out what's going on here because when I do tackle this I want to have all my facts straight. Do I believe that the writers don't have the guts to kill her off and this is just one big fake out, absolutely. Until I get more information I'm going with the Smallville season 3 finale, Chloe death scene.

    Now let's get down to the to the other stuff.

    Seeing Oliver as the Green Arrow in those few minutes of of screen time, tearing through the Ghosts and then the alluded torturing he did on them as well had to be one of the best parts of the episode. Because for a few minutes it felt like I was watching old Oliver from the first 3 seasons and not this new, housewife fluffy version from season 4.

    Seeing Malcolm back, well I enjoyed every scene he was in. I actually don't know who I want to see in the Green Arrow suit more Oliver or Malcolm. Probably Oliver but still ideas for alternate earths does come to mind.

    Damien Darkh has a family, well that's going to make things interesting.

    The intense moments of Diggle, Thea and Laurel in those gas chambers were well done.

    I'm still curious on what the whole Gneisses plan is. Star Treck, the Wrath of Khan come to mind.

    The flashbacks are getting interesting and I have the feeling are going to keep going.

    I was surprised when I saw that one shark in the water then slightly chuckled at Oliver's obvious humor of that's going to leave a scar because we have an answer of those circular marks on his left hip. Now the whole cat and mouse game will be coming to an end based the fact that Conklin found Oliver and Tania still alive. Which makes me thing we are soon going to get an answer on those whip like slashes on his back due to the fact that we know Baron Riter likes to have people whipped as punishment.

    It was nice seeing the Amazo again and I actually thought Oliver was going to find Slade's mask in the wreckage. Maybe next time.

    For the bad

    The Olicty stuff, Donna and the whole forced thing (fan wise) between Quentin and Donna. To sum it up.
    Last edited by Haggard01; 12-10-2015 at 09:17 AM.

  4. #19
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    I enjoyed that episode, I might of enjoyed it too much.

    Lets get the Obvious out the way, Felicity is not dead. What this episode did was raise her level of importance on the show. She is nowhere near that grave. Felicity is a go for season 5. okay now that we are done with that.

    Damian you sick twisted bastard. I like your evil. I mean I dislike the evil things you do, but you are a villain that has raised the stakes for all of our heroes.

    Laurel, and Lance dynamic was great, I like how they did not drag things out, secret came out, they moved on because what Quentin is doing is logical. Canary Cry worked a lot better because they didn't zoom in on Laurel's face.

    Oliver is stepping up as Oliver Queen, the big issue last season is that we lost Oliver Queen. This season he is back and with a vengeance. Still making mistakes, but the man behind the mask is back, and he is the one in charge, Oliver is wearing the mask and not letting it wear him. Well until his family is threaten then he balances on the edge of total regression, that is a discussion for another time.

    Felicity, with her "You are not the boss of me" "I decide" "I chose this I chose you" so many great lines. This is something I adore about the character, and something that gets her in deep dangers at times. She is not afraid to speak her mind, especially if someone is trying to figure out what she wants. The ring was found, she went to oliver and say I found out it. She didnt wait and act all cute surprise and on edge. She told him, they had talks, she tells him what she is thinking instead of waiting for him to guess. She tells him this is how I feel, the rest is in your decision, either way lets live our lives, we do a dangerous job, lets not do it in constant fear. This is what I love about the character, she can't keep secrets!!! and the few that she does keep, once they are figured out she spills her guts, telling you why she kept it, she lets her loved ones know her feelings and emotions. Happy, sad, angry, nervous, scared, if you see it she will tell you, if you ask her she will tell you, if it affects your relationship with her he will tell you. Never lose that Quality Felicity.


    Oliver and Felicity that proposal was short, quick to the point and perfect. paraphrasing "There is one person I'm thankful for, she has been by my side throughout the darkest of times, she is the one that lights my way". That light symbolism again, every character on this show has thier own light, but for this show the main symbol for light is Felicity Smoak, she is Oliver's tether. Marc G. said at the beginning of the season the song he choice for Olicity is "Your my home" by Billie Joel, the theme of the season for Oliver is can he hold onto his new found hope in humanity. They have just taken Oliver's theme of the season and made it indistinguishable from what Felicity means to him. Something they have been doing for the better part of 2 seasons now. But this episode they made it obvious. Arrow has just finished building another pillar for thier show. There is Family, Redemption, Sacrifice, and now the Oliver and Felicity pillar. Like it or not, think of it as great or not, but the great love story of this show is Oliver and Felicity. That pillar will get challenged, might even get damaged, but it will withstand. These writers have dove head in, and they are telling this love story, whether you like it or not.

  5. #20
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    This wasn't the strongest mid-season finale, but it wasn't bad. It was really nice to see Oliver stepping up as a potential mayoral candidate and inspiring people. I would love to see more of that.

    I was really glad that the secret Quentin was keeping about working for Darhk was resolved in a pretty mature way when Laurel found out. And in general, there were some really strong Laurel scenes this episode, which is nice considering how much she was sidelined for the crossover.

    The Olicity proposal was inevitable, and I really doubt that Felicity is dead. So whatever. No surprises there and I wouldn't be shocked if the shippers got a wedding by the end of this season. But I really wish that they wouldn't have downplayed the importance of Thea and Diggle to Oliver. Why put them in the gas chamber as well if the only person Oliver is going to care about is Felicity? (Also, putting a Jewish character in a gas chamber was a really gross and offensive choice on the part of the writers)

    It was an interesting reveal that we got to see Darhk's family. I wonder if they know who he really is or not. I'm also still waiting for more reveal/explanation on Darhk's endgame plan.

    Overall, I'd say this was a fairly mediocre episode. But it was watchable.

  6. #21
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    I think putting a Jewish person in a gas chamber was a deliberate move on Guggenheim's part to show how evil he is, just as he had Ra's al Ghul force Nyssa to marry Oliver last season.
    Eeeeefil.

    There were a lot of good things about this episode. Neal McDonaugh is killing it as Damian Darhk, red-wine loving family man and evil sociopath. He handles villainous so well "Well, I think if you replay our conversation in your mind our bargain was only at best implied. Even so. Bad guy, remember?" I really think he's the best Big Bad Arrow has ever had.

    After a season of messing up Malcolm Merlyn's role on the show and making Oliver an idiot in order to do it, this episode was the perfect Malcolm, snarky, ruthless, but willing to fight with Oliver when it suits his agenda.

    This is the first time I've genuinely liked Laurel. She was professional (the ADA taking the hotline calls), she had some great scenes with her father (more mature than I've ever seen her before), and this was the first time since Sara used it in season 2 that the Canary Cry made complete sense.

    Quentin was just right too, telling Laurel that he's working undercover for Darhk, trying to help save Diggle, Thea and Felicity, even getting overwhelmed by Donna calling him her boyfriend when he thought it was just a date. The guy needs some fun in his life after all he's been through.

    After the back and forth through the episode of Oliver wanting to keep Felicity safe from his Green Arrow vigilante life (starting back in the Russia episode in 2x07), it's ironic that she gets hurt because she's connected to Oliver Queen. I like it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superles View Post

    Oliver and Felicity that proposal was short, quick to the point and perfect. paraphrasing "There is one person I'm thankful for, she has been by my side throughout the darkest of times, she is the one that lights my way". That light symbolism again, every character on this show has thier own light, but for this show the main symbol for light is Felicity Smoak, she is Oliver's tether.
    When they put that much effort into guiding the show to create themes and then carry them through multiple seasons, it gives me hope.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevcwalina View Post
    That episode was awesome! I don't think Felicity is dead unfortunately, but i do think she will now be a paraplegic much like the character "Oracle" from Batman. I believe the show had intended on calling the episode "the secret origin of felicity smoak" "Oracle" so I think that will be the case. As for who is in the grave, im not so sure yet.
    Ray will come in and save Felicity with his nanotechs. After his nanotechs bring her back from the brink of death, she will develop new superpowers making her the quintessential member of the team.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    Ray will come in and save Felicity with his nanotechs. After his nanotechs bring her back from the brink of death, she will develop new superpowers making her the quintessential member of the team.
    Lol, well if your right I suppose she would end up being Atomica the female version of the Atom. They sort of laid the ground work for that last year when she flew the Atom suit. Before I catch any grief for suggesting this, I am not being serious about this. Although the Felicity haters might actually like this idea as Atomica gets stepped on and is squished to death.

    A couple of observations about the episode, I didn't like them putting a Jewish woman in a gas chamber, that was just wrong. I also didn't like Oliver proposing to said Jewish woman in front of a Christmas Tree.
    Last edited by Carmine-Infantino; 12-10-2015 at 05:31 PM.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Maybe Craig meant "Shark Waters"???
    When I saw that shark my first though was that scene from the old Batman show and shark repellent. Wow, Ollie still has a leg after being attacked by a shark?

    Shortly: it was an episode of "Arrow" which I truly enjoyed for the most part and which kept my attention. I would say that it was even intense, despite the fact that the only person who I thought might die here was Quentin (he didn't, what a relief, apparently he is going to live a little longer).

    Will come back later with a longer post, since right now "Arrow" episode which has much more good points than bad ones it's really an event.

  10. #25
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    A couple of things that also stuck out as being incredibly interesting:

    1. Malcolm revealing himself and Quentin's reaction. They DID NOT disappoint with this and it was exactly what I pictured happening. It was done beautifully.

    2. Malcolm saying, "Good, you've got your bondage outfit on." I started laughing, I couldn't help it. The whole scene with Oliver chained at the end of Season 1 was Barrowman's idea, and I can just imagine him throwing that line in there as an ad-lib. If that's the case, them keeping it is amusing. Especially since we've already seen one Canary get tied up on this show... I can totally see them delivering the punch line to this joke later on. Yes, I'm horrible, but so is Barrowman since he's the one that throws these things into the mix.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDBentz View Post
    A couple of things that also stuck out as being incredibly interesting:

    1. Malcolm revealing himself and Quentin's reaction. They DID NOT disappoint with this and it was exactly what I pictured happening. It was done beautifully.

    2. Malcolm saying, "Good, you've got your bondage outfit on." I started laughing, I couldn't help it. The whole scene with Oliver chained at the end of Season 1 was Barrowman's idea, and I can just imagine him throwing that line in there as an ad-lib. If that's the case, them keeping it is amusing. Especially since we've already seen one Canary get tied up on this show... I can totally see them delivering the punch line to this joke later on. Yes, I'm horrible, but so is Barrowman since he's the one that throws these things into the mix.
    Oh the line by Malcolm of "Good, you've got your bondage outfit on." had me laughing as well for sure.

  12. #27
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    It is a toss up who gets the best lines - Malcolm or Quentin.

  13. #28
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    We saw an actual Arrow episode that -- wait for it -- was actually about Arrow, its characters and plots. One could be forgiven for forgetting that the show is actually about Oliver Queen and not the cast of LOT. (I just had to put that out there.)

    This midseason finale was decent enough and entertaining, though my standard for Arrow midseason finales remains S3's "The Climb". It's not as good as Ollie and Ra's duel to the death. (The second half of S3 undercut it, but whatever.)

    Darhk being unabashedly malevolent, Quentin and Laurel having a mature conversation that didn't descend into weeks of melodrama, Ollie fighting sharks and putting a ring on Felicity and the cliffhanger ending definitely put everyone on the show through their dramatic paces, but I don't think it was at the same level or scale as Ollie nearly losing his life by the hand of Ra's Al Ghul.

    I don't plan on parsing all the melodrama this time 'round, because I've had my fill during the LOT two-part crossovers. (I actually think Flash altering the timeline will be the bigger, life-changing crisis for everyone in the Flarrowverse -- not Savage and certainly not the melodrama.)

    The lesson they should all learn is that they should be terrified of existing in a timeline that would not exist had Flash not time-jumped. There will be a reckoning for this and Time will be collecting on that debt, with interest. Everything that happens on Arrow, Flash should be seen through this prism. They "cheated" fate, time, the gods, call it what you will. It's borrowed time they're living and there will be a balancing out.

    It was no real surprise that Ollie finally had the sense to stop dithering and put a ring on it, will they-won't they has been hovering over them since the S4 premiere. Like putting a star atop a Christmas tree, Ollie proposing to Felicity is the culmination of (some) fans' and the showrunners' hopes, wishes and dreams for both of them. I don't really have a problem with it in this episode, as it was expected the moment Ollie revealed that he had a ring. It may have been sappier had it occurred in a non-holiday episode, but 'tis the season etc. etc. so they got away with it here.

    I also don't see the cliffhanger meaning all that much. While S3's midseason finale had the fandom questioning if Ollie could have even survived his duel, I think most viewers aren't questioning that Felicity is alive. After four seasons, I don't see them offing a main character as quickly and simply as a crosssfire ambush. This was there to fuel more melodrama and to stoke it into the second half of S4. Shippers will enjoy it, haters will hate it ... and those of us who look at all the melodrama with mild indifference and just want good stories, good characters and (occasionally) an indication they know who the Green Arrow is got a few things to chew on here.

    You know who didn't have melodrama in this finale? Quentin and Laurel! Quentin stopped beating that tiresome 'I gotta protect you' drum and they reached an understanding. Good job -- as well as Malcolm himself acknowledging that he's got lots of family drama.

    They planted plenty of red herring almost-"deaths", so it looked like almost anyone was on-deck for the Reaper. It didn't turn out that way here -- but I'd still say what Barry did with the time-jump ensured that everyone is still eligible and on-deck for the grave.

    Subtlety is an art that is the show hasn't got a real handle on -- hence the hammer-on-anvil stuff about Felicity's Jewish heritage and Darhk proving his evil ways by sticking her in a gas chamber. If the point was to make Darhk look like a monster without remorse, it was clumsy, heavy-handed and it can be construed as a controversial or even offensive way to making this point. NM doesn't need any help conveying Darhk's malevolence, so this was another situation used to stir up the melodrama.

    Diggle had some character moments as well, though I'm still left guessing how Andy will fit into the HIVE subplot or if they plan on resolving it by season's end. If they do, then Diggle would also conclude his main character-specific story arc. This means ... he would also be free to "die for the cause" by season's end. I'd hedge my bets on this if they incorporate some subplot about Diggle mentoring Ollie on fatherhood in S5, though I don't know if this is still enough for his character to linger on the show. If William dies and the Andy/HIVE subplot is resolved this season, then Diggle would be in the clear to take one for the team (permanently) by season's end.

    Quote Originally Posted by cosmicbimbo View Post
    It is a toss up who gets the best lines - Malcolm or Quentin.
    Long may they ad-lib. This would be one reason why I don't want either of them dead -- we'd miss out on their one-liners. No one else is going to deliver them like these two.
    Last edited by President_Luthor; 12-10-2015 at 11:17 PM.

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    Ray will come in and save Felicity with his nanotechs. After his nanotechs bring her back from the brink of death, she will develop new superpowers making her the quintessential member of the team.
    And here I thought she already had so many superpowers that they are more than enough as it is! Genius intelligence, ability to run a huge company along with helping the team 24/7, ability to hack into everything in a few seconds (even cranes!) extensive knowledge concerning everything under the sun (medicine, ancient Egypt, you name it!). Does she really need any more superpowers or positive traits in order to be the quintessential member of the team?
    Last edited by evaba; 12-11-2015 at 04:16 AM.

  15. #30
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    A couple of observations about the episode, I didn't like them putting a Jewish woman in a gas chamber, that was just wrong. I also didn't like Oliver proposing to said Jewish woman in front of a Christmas Tree.
    I wonder who will marry them? If Felicity is serious about her Jewish faith, they should be married under the chuppah by a rabbi, but then I think Ollie has to convert. Or maybe the American rabbinate is less strict than the Israeli one about this? Or maybe they will choose a non-confessional wedding ceremony to make things easier? Questions abound in view of the wedding of the century!

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