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  1. #46
    Ming-the Merciless Glove's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
    I'm not sure if I thought about Rey being overpowered while watching the movie.

    I did think though that Kylo Ren might simply have mediocre Force sensitivity. We have not seen this much in Star Wars but it is sensible that some people be sensitive to the force but at a lower level. That was the impression I got of Kylo. It's somewhat contradicted by him stopping the blaster, but the fact is Rey was able to block his mind, Finn dueled with him a little bit, and Rey comprehensively defeated him in a lightsabre fight. Throughout the movie Kylo doesn't look like he's in command, in strong contrast to Vader who comes off as formidable. There's also the fact that Snoke isn't fully invested in Kylo Ren, he's on the lookout for a better Sith.

    I'm not sure if that was the intended point.
    As much as I hate to mention........Midi-chlorians.......I guess that's how one would explain how strong one is in the Force. I would be surprised to learn that Han & Leia's son, Kylo Ren (Ben), would have less of these little critters in his system than Rey, who may or may not be Luke Skywalker's daughter, when Luke and Leia are supposed to be twins. So, why would she be more powerful than him?

  2. #47
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glove View Post
    As much as I hate to mention........Midi-chlorians.......I guess that's how one would explain how strong one is in the Force. I would be surprised to learn that Han & Leia's son, Kylo Ren (Ben), would have less of these little critters in his system than Rey, who may or may not be Luke Skywalker's daughter, when Luke and Leia are supposed to be twins. So, why would she be more powerful than him?
    Assuming Darth Disney hasn't done away with the concept altogether, and that a midichlorian count can be genetic, why would we be sure that's something that would pass down equally? Tall parents can have both tall and short children.

  3. #48
    Incurable Postaholic DA_Champion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glove View Post
    As much as I hate to mention........Midi-chlorians.......I guess that's how one would explain how strong one is in the Force. I would be surprised to learn that Han & Leia's son, Kylo Ren (Ben), would have less of these little critters in his system than Rey, who may or may not be Luke Skywalker's daughter, when Luke and Leia are supposed to be twins. So, why would she be more powerful than him?
    Not only did I never have a problem with midichlorions, but I never even understand the hate. It really came off as irrational. It might be that I was ok with it because I read the first few expanded universe novels, so I had been introduced to the concept that force sensitivity could be quantified.

    The Star Wars universe has made it clear that force sensitivity is partly or largely genetic, so the end result is exactly the same regardless of whether or not they use the term midichlorions. They will use all of the same logic, just not the terminology, in order to make the fans happy. And with that said, if force sensitivity is genetic, that can be reconciled with Kylo Ren being half the Sith Lord his grandfather was.

    Rey, we don't know who she is. They deliberately made her parentage a mystery so that fans would spend years and years speculating on it.

  4. #49
    Nate nate-dog1701d's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    I think that the problem is people are equating "being a Jedi" with whether or not you are an expert at using the Force to manipulate things and how good you are with a lightsaber. A lightsaber is a sword. Padawans can use it to deflect blaster bolts, so is that really what it means to be a full-blown Jedi? If you equate being a Jedi with being able to move objects with your mind, wield a lightsaber, and trick a guy into letting you go, then I can see why people would be aggravated that Rey can do these things with no formal training. I just don't think that's what it's about, and I think the OT told us that in no uncertain terms. Luke had one lesson with Obi-Wan and maybe a couple with Yoda. He became a Jedi not when he beat Vader in a sword fight, but when he put his sword down.

    I equate being a Jedi with a mentality. The most important lesson Yoda tried to teach Luke was when Luke couldn't lift the X-Wing out of the swamp. "I don't believe it," he said to Yoda. "That is why you fail." It's the difference, I think, between a vacation bible school teacher and a monk.
    Well said. Episode VII even took a step to decouple lightsaber prowess and Force sensitivity by having Finn wield one, which was one of my favorite things.

    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    I think it is particularly telling, for example, that Han actually has a line where he says something like "So how do we blow it up? There's always a way to blow these things up." That's a line out of a parody, not a serious endeavor. It's as if they're asking us to just roll with it, and it's kinda crappy.
    And this was my least favorite thing.

  5. #50
    Incurable Postaholic DA_Champion's Avatar
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    In the EU, Jedi were supposed to build their own lightsabres as a rite of passage, it was a very Jedi thing, I thought that was a nice touch.

    Also explained why Jedi don't use guns.

  6. #51
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Backward Galaxy View Post
    So did Rey. The thing didn't fly up immediately out of the snow. It took a few seconds. It was practically a mirror image of the scene in the ice cave.

    No, that's just you declaring that the force operates like a bullet, which you don't know is true.

    Kylo tried to use the mind trick to pull the information from Rey's mind. At first, it worked. Evidence of this is that he knew about the island. However, as he continued to probe, she tried to resist, and as the scene wore on it became harder for him to get anything from her. She even started getting stuff from him. He opened up a pathway into her mind she didn't know existed. Realizing now that such paths exist, and that she can even walk down them herself, she realized she could do it to others. He built a bridge to her mind. She realized that the bridge works both ways. She then hypothesized that she could create a bridge of her own to someone else's mind. She tried. It didn't work. She tried again. It did work.

    Maybe it would help to think of it more like getting a tattoo. A lot of people pass out when they get their first tattoo. It isn't because the pain of it is greater than any pain they've ever felt before. It's because the pain is different and the body doesn't know how to respond. However, once you wake up, you are suddenly more tolerant because the body now understands what is happening to itself as well as how to cope. You don't pass out again when the artist continues with the tattoo. This is how I interpret what happened with Rey. The experience of feeling it happen to her, and her body figuring out that it can resist it, is how she learned. Keep in mind that this wasn't her first experience with the Force being applied to her. Kylo had stunned her unconscious in the forest previously. This was her second go around.

    Another example: If I'm in the audience and I watch a magician walk on water, I see him do the trick the same way Luke saw Obi-Wan use the mind trick on the stormtrooper. Doesn't mean I know how to do it. But if the magician pulls me from the audience and takes me out onto the water so now I'm walking on the water with him, and I look down and see a platform just under the surface of the water, now I know how to do the trick.

    No, Luke used them over the course of three movies. There's a difference. No one taught Luke how to move a lightsaber before he did it. And no one taught Luke how to use the Jedi mind trick before we saw him use it. The number of films is irrelevant. The fact is that he became a powerful Force user from two lessons and ended up using powers we never actually saw him get taught how to use.

    It's not like she was jumping off walls like Yoda and throwing lightning at people. She did two rather small things and won a fight against an injured guy who wasn't trying to kill her in the first place.

    Episodes VIII and IX are not going to be about Rey learning knew Force tricks. And if they were, they'd be awful movies. Episodes VIII and IX are going to be about Rey learning to be a better person, a leader, and how to be a powerful person with the self-control to resist the urge to give in to hatred.
    Rey did what Luke did in the second movie and she did it about as quick. Both her and Kylo were reaching for it and she pulls harder than him. The issue isn't necessarily that she shouldn't be able to do it, but that she shouldn't be able to do it as quickly as she does, because as far as the movie has developed, she has no training. Luke was slow doing it and she should be slower.

    It was a comparison. It being used on someone doesn't mean that they should be able to use it. It's just a way to make her cooler, when it just makes her less, because we don't see her train at all.

    The powers were all still something that weren't pulled out automatically. That's why Luke works where Rey doesn't. Luke doesn't automatically get upgraded with all the powers in the first movie.

    Why would someone honing their skills over a period of time be awful? The movies don't even have to be about those things to care enough to not pretend that giving Rey several skills in the first movie is needed. I don't want this to be more like ANH than it already is, but that movie had enough creative integrity to not have Luke getting several powers with a day of finding out that they're a possibility.

    God bless you! God bless everyone!
    Last edited by Dagenspear; 02-24-2016 at 04:23 AM.

  7. #52
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nate-dog1701d View Post
    Well said. Episode VII even took a step to decouple lightsaber prowess and Force sensitivity by having Finn wield one, which was one of my favorite things.
    Good point about Finn. That was a choice made by the filmmakers and a very deliberate one.

  8. #53
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dagenspear View Post
    Rey did what Luke did in the second movie and she did it about as quick. Both her and Kylo were reaching for it and she pulls harder than him. The issue isn't necessarily that she shouldn't be able to do it, but that she shouldn't be able to do it as quickly as she does, because as far as the movie has developed, she has no training. Luke was slow doing it and she should be slower.

    It was a comparison. It being used on someone doesn't mean that they should be able to use it. It's just a way to make her cooler, when it just makes her less, because we don't see her train at all.

    The powers were all still something that weren't pulled out automatically. That's why Luke works where Rey doesn't. Luke doesn't automatically get upgraded with all the powers in the first movie.
    I disagree with every word of this for reasons already stated in previous posts.

    Why would someone honing their skills over a period of time be awful? The movies don't even have to be about those things to care enough to not pretend that giving Rey several skills in the first movie is needed. I don't want this to be more like ANH than it already is, but that movie had enough creative integrity to not have Luke getting several powers with a day of finding out that they're a possibility.
    I think you are greatly overestimating Rey's accomplishments. She ever so slightly diverted a lightsaber that was being moved by someone else. She defeated a badly injured man who wasn't trying to kill her in a lightsaber battle when it was already established that she could fight. And she convinced someone who wasn't Force sensitive at all to let her go using a mind trick she became aware of when it was used on her by Kylo. To me, that's not a lot, and whatever amount it is surely isn't egregious. There's plenty of room for her to hone her skills in future films.

  9. #54
    Incurable Postaholic DA_Champion's Avatar
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    I had a completely different interpretation of the lightsabre out of the snow moment. I'll have to pay attention to that scene next time I watch the movie.

  10. #55
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DA_Champion View Post
    I had a completely different interpretation of the lightsabre out of the snow moment. I'll have to pay attention to that scene next time I watch the movie.
    I'm not trying to substitute my description for your watching the scene again and deciding for yourself, but this is how I see it...

    The lightsaber is in the snow after Kylo downs Finn. Kylo stops everything he's doing and reaches for the lightsaber. It is clear in that moment that he's trying to use the Force to pull the saber into his own hand. The saber erupts out of the snow and heads straight for him. To me, this indicates that some of the movement of the saber is due to HIS use of the Force.

    But then he dodges it, presumably because it alters direction towards his head, not his hand. My interpretation of that is the addition of a second Force user, Rey, using her skills to redirect the saber into her own hand.

    Kylo has no reason to believe Rey is capable of grabbing the saber from a distance. It's not a tug of war. He's not prepared to fight her Force powers with is own. He's not expecting her to be able to do anything. For me, it's the difference between someone pushing you when you're not expecting it, versus when you have the chance to brace yourself. I could probably push The Rock over a step or two if I jumped him from behind when he wasn't expecting it, but if he saw me coming, it'd be like me running into a brick wall.

  11. #56
    The Force is Strong!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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    Daisy Ridley may have confirmed that Episode VIII may pick up directly following the end of Episode VII. Here is what she stated in an MTV interview:

    Me and Mark [Hamill] have been rehearsing a lot, and its really amazing. When we went back to Skellig to do the opening of VIII, it was so crazy doing the same scene with a different crew of people, she said. Hes amazing to rehearse with, and Im very excited to be doing the rest of the stuff.

  12. #57
    The Force is Strong!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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  13. #58
    The Force is Strong!!! darkphoenix21's Avatar
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  14. #59
    Pirate King Backward Galaxy's Avatar
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    They actually look pretty neat. I like that the weird brown alien looks like he's wearing some sort of weird British tuxedo.

  15. #60
    Ming-the Merciless Glove's Avatar
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    I'd bet the speeder chase in Episode VIII won't even compare the speeder chase in Episode II. Sometimes practical effects are no where as good a the green screen effects. George had more imagination than what I'm seeing from the people responsible for these Mickey Mouse Star Wars movies. I do like the location shoots more, but the planets in George's prequels were more creative. It's hard to duplicate a lava planet in real life. Cloud City was CGI, but I don't hear complaints about it. The palace on Naboo was the real location shoot from the prequels that I can remember. These new movies should mix it up a little better. I wouldn't mind seeing Coruscant again.

    I would have to add the same goes for the aliens. I see nothing creative about the aliens in the pictures...just guys in masks. I guess the days of Watto, Sebulba, Dax (the cook from Clones), Jabba the Hutt and even Jar Jar Binks (CGI only, the character was only unsuccessful because they portrayed him as being so retarded one couldn't help but hate him) are gone. Fans of the original trilogy are so fixated on their childhood highlights that they can't see new technologies and moving forward with creativity. Hence, we get to see more Death Stars, Star Destroyers, Milleneum Falcons, stormtroopers, etc. I do see the story being decent only because of the director and the fact that Looper was such a good movie, but creatively, there's no way in Hell I'm going to appreciate it. If George Lucas would have had the technology with the original trilogy that he had with they prequels...they would have looked exactly the same as the prequels and the fans would have loved them all the same. There wouldn't be all this "practical effects" nonsense.

    Now, the stuff on the boat won't even be creative enough to even be a hovering boat like Jabba's sail barge. I just know the lack of imagination coming with Mickey Mouse Star Wars...
    Last edited by Glove; 03-16-2016 at 09:10 AM.

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