Star Wars: The Last Jedi (2017)

[Backward Galaxy]

I'd bet the speeder chase in Episode VIII won't even compare the speeder chase in Episode II. Sometimes practical effects are no where as good a the green screen effects. George had more imagination than what I'm seeing from the people responsible for these Mickey Mouse Star Wars movies. I do like the location shoots more, but the planets in George's prequels were more creative. It's hard to duplicate a lava planet in real life. Cloud City was CGI, but I don't hear complaints about it. The palace on Naboo was the real location shoot from the prequels that I can remember. These new movies should mix it up a little better. I wouldn't mind seeing Coruscant again.

I would have to add the same goes for the aliens. I see nothing creative about the aliens in the pictures...just guys in masks. I guess the days of Watto, Sebulba, Dax (the cook from Clones), Jabba the Hutt and even Jar Jar Binks (CGI only, the character was only unsuccessful because they portrayed him as being so retarded one couldn't help but hate him) are gone. Fans of the original trilogy are so fixated on their childhood highlights that they can't see new technologies and moving forward with creativity. Hence, we get to see more Death Stars, Star Destroyers, Milleneum Falcons, stormtroopers, etc. I do see the story being decent only because of the director and the fact that Looper was such a good movie, but creatively, there's no way in Hell I'm going to appreciate it. If George Lucas would have had the technology with the original trilogy that he had with they prequels...they would have looked exactly the same as the prequels and the fans would have loved them all the same. There wouldn't be all this "practical effects" nonsense.

Now, the stuff on the boat won't even be creative enough to even be a hovering boat like Jabba's sail barge. I just know the lack of imagination coming with Mickey Mouse Star Wars...

Well, glad to hear you're keeping an open mind about it.

[DA_Champion]

Glove,

I have a history of defending the prequels, but I can't even remember the speeder chase from Episode II. Are you talking about that flying car chase in Coruscant? It wasn't good. I liked the speeder chase in Episode 1 though.

I agree with your general point: Abrams lacks imagination. For a Star Wars movie he took us to Tatooine, Yavin IV, the Death Star, and Mos Eisley cantina. He was more interested in recreating A New Hope than in telling a new star wars story. His experience with Star Trek shows that he has no ability to construct new worlds and new settings.

John Carter of Mars is also a good comparison/contrast to Star Wars Episode VIII. It's a movie with an epic feel, and where the designers put in the effort to construct a new world, to take us to a place where we had not been before. There are all sorts of small rituals, for example the red ceremonial tattoos, how different groups have different dress codes, or how the Tharks take bets on Helium vs Zodanga fights. However, the movie had less humour, clunky dialogue, and less action choreography, so people didn't like it as much.

[DA_Champion]

What did you guys think of the Breaking Bad Episode "The Fly"?

It's considered one of the best episodes, and it was directed by the director of Episode VIII, Rian Johnson. I didn't love it personally.

[Backward Galaxy]

I haven't watched any of Breaking Bad.

[DA_Champion]

I haven't watched any of Breaking Bad.

I think that what you should do is put the rest of your life on hold and go binge watch Breaking Bad.

[Glove]

Glove,

I have a history of defending the prequels, but I can't even remember the speeder chase from Episode II. Are you talking about that flying car chase in Coruscant? It wasn't good. I liked the speeder chase in Episode 1 though.

I agree with your general point: Abrams lacks imagination. For a Star Wars movie he took us to Tatooine, Yavin IV, the Death Star, and Mos Eisley cantina. He was more interested in recreating A New Hope than in telling a new star wars story. His experience with Star Trek shows that he has no ability to construct new worlds and new settings.

John Carter of Mars is also a good comparison/contrast to Star Wars Episode VIII. It's a movie with an epic feel, and where the designers put in the effort to construct a new world, to take us to a place where we had not been before. There are all sorts of small rituals, for example the red ceremonial tattoos, how different groups have different dress codes, or how the Tharks take bets on Helium vs Zodanga fights. However, the movie had less humour, clunky dialogue, and less action choreography, so people didn't like it as much.

Rian and Colin have a lot of damage control. I'm only giving Star Wars another chance because JJ is NOT directing the next 2 Episodes. I am completely done
with Star Trek after that second piece of crap that JJ directed. I don't love Trek as much as Wars. I thought John Carter of Mars was cool. I don't own that one, yet. I've never watch Breaking Bad...Not really into the drug scene.

...And I apologize for NOT answering your question about the speeder chase on Coruscant in Clones. I had to go back and rewatch the scene for a direct quote from the movie:

Obi-Wan-"What took you so long?"

Anakin-"Oh, you know master, I couldn't find a SPEEDER that I liked with an open cockpit and the speed capabilities."

Obi-Wan-"If you spent as much time practicing your saber techniques as you do your wits you'd rival Master Yoda as a swordsman."

[Backward Galaxy]

I think that what you should do is put the rest of your life on hold and go binge watch Breaking Bad.

Haha. Well, I did just finish my second run-through of The West Wing. Daredevil S2 will be next, but then I will certainly need something to fill the time...

[Backward Galaxy]

Rian and Colin have a lot of damage control. I'm only giving Star Wars another chance because JJ is NOT directing the next 2 Episodes. I am completely done
with Star Trek after that second piece of crap that JJ directed.

JJ's not directing the third Trek, either. And Orci got credit as a writer, but I don't believe he wrote the final draft. Granted, the teaser for Star Trek Beyond was horrendous, but I don't understand the need to give up on the whole franchise, especially since JJ's not doing it anymore.

I liked TFA, despite the fact that it was basically a remake of ANH. I do, however, expect the next film will be better and more original. I'm certainly not going to give up my fandom because of one bad film. If I was prepared to do that with Star Wars, I wouldn't have made it passed The Phantom Menace.

[Glove]

JJ's not directing the third Trek, either. And Orci got credit as a writer, but I don't believe he wrote the final draft. Granted, the teaser for Star Trek Beyond was horrendous, but I don't understand the need to give up on the whole franchise, especially since JJ's not doing it anymore.

I liked TFA, despite the fact that it was basically a remake of ANH. I do, however, expect the next film will be better and more original. I'm certainly not going to give up my fandom because of one bad film. If I was prepared to do that with Star Wars, I wouldn't have made it passed The Phantom Menace.

I just think that he poisoned the well. I'm going to speculate that JJ is a fan of both franchises, but one of Star Wars more (since, I believe that I read somewhere that this is true)...that he knew both The Wrath of Khan and A New Hope. This being said, if he read the script before he made the movies, wouldn't a light go off and tell him that the scripts are really bad remakes of good movies? Does he have any control over the product that he is making? He's simply an overrated director...

[Backward Galaxy]

Well I don't agree that they're really bad scripts, but taste is taste, so it's fair that if you don't like him then it is what it is. But just as an example, there have been many franchises with bad installments that went on to have great films. Bond and Trek come to mind as franchises with both great and horrendous films. I hope the next SW is something you'll give a chance and come to love. I hope that for myself with Batman v Superman.

[Glove]

I have to say that the thing that really kills me is when George sold Star Wars to Disney...they made this statement that he would stay on as a consultant, but when George, the creative genius behind this universe approached them with some ideas they turned him down flat saying "that they wanted to go in their own direction." They went out of their way to distance themselves from him. The result is The Force Awakens, a remake of A New Hope. Wow! The next one better be good...

[Backward Galaxy]

I have to say that the thing that really kills me is when George sold Star Wars to Disney...they made this statement that he would stay on as a consultant, but when George, the creative genius behind this universe approached them with some ideas they turned him down flat saying "that they wanted to go in their own direction." They went out of their way to distance themselves from him. The result is The Force Awakens, a remake of A New Hope. Wow! The next one better be good...

To an extent, I disagree, but I also partly agree.

I believe in the integrity of a vision. I don't like it when studios impose their own creative decisions on someone they've hired. I realize it is their money and their risk, so I understand where their entitlement comes from, but I also think that businessmen don't understand how fragile art can be. If you hire a director or writer to produce something, you have to let them do it their way. It has to be consistent. When you start tinkering with it, you compromise the vision and things tend to fall apart. A good example of this is when Sony forced Sam Raimi to use Venom in Spider-Man 3. Sam Raimi hates Venom. He doesn't like the character. He has nothing to say about the character. Nothing good, anyway. Why in the world would you expect Sam Raimi to make a great movie featuring Venom when you know he's not invested in the character? It's stupid. They should have either let Raimi do what he wanted or they should have gotten someone else to do it.

With TFA, they hired JJ Abrams to direct it and he wanted to make a very specific movie. To then force him to work with George Lucas's vision would have been a mistake. You would have gotten a half-assed piece of nonsense because you would have ended up with JJ Abrams directing a film he couldn't care less about. So, in this sense, I think it is good that they didn't use any of Lucas's ideas. They hired JJ and they let him make the movie he wanted to make. As a result, whether people like it or not, we ended up with the best possible Star Wars movie that JJ Abrams was capable of making at the time. I also think that George Lucas has proven he's nowhere near the same filmmaker he was in his youth. The prequels were awful. His Tuskegee film was bad. The 4th Indy film was a trainwreck. The old man has lost his mojo and I don't trust his ideas would have been any good.

However, this is where I'm going to agree with you... They did kind of say one thing and do the exact opposite. Maybe they had good intentions and didn't want to come out and say, "His ideas suck and we're not going to use them". Maybe they were trying to help him save face by saying they would consult with him. But it seems obvious, at least to me, that they are kinda done with George Lucas. I would think they could have at least done something with his ideas, maybe put out an Elseworlds animated program, or graphic novel, or novel series, something... I think that people would have been interested in that. Star Wars is basically a license to print money. Instead, it feels a lot like they think of him as the has-been coach of the football team who just doesn't have it anymore. On the one hand, I agree with them. On the other hand, maybe they could have done something more.

[costas22]

I just think that he poisoned the well. I'm going to speculate that JJ is a fan of both franchises, but one of Star Wars more (since, I believe that I read somewhere that this is true)...that he knew both The Wrath of Khan and A New Hope. This being said, if he read the script before he made the movies, wouldn't a light go off and tell him that the scripts are really bad remakes of good movies? Does he have any control over the product that he is making? He's simply an overrated director...

Agree. Haven't happened to follow a lot of his work, but that was my impression after watching TFA and without any nostalgia tinted glasses. It wasn't a movie that tried something new, it focused too much on making the odd cultural statement and at times it failed to honour the legacy it was serving. Case in point, the aftermath of [SPOILER]Han's death[/SPOILER], where Chewie coldly walks past Leia. Something that Abrams himself aknowledged was wrong in a recent interview. How good can a director's work be if he has to come out and admit he made a mistake and then explain what he was trying to accomplish?

Besides Breaking Bad, I am also unfamiliar with Rian Johnson's work. Nonetheless, I'm very glad someone other than JJ is getting a shot at episode VIII.

[Backward Galaxy]

Agree. Haven't happened to follow a lot of his work, but that was my impression after watching TFA and without any nostalgia tinted glasses. It wasn't a movie that tried something new...

I really wish people would explain why they think this is inherently a bad thing. This was the stated intent of the filmmakers. Re-stating that intent isn't criticism, it's fact.

Case in point, the aftermath of [SPOILER]Han's death[/SPOILER], where Chewie coldly walks past Leia. Something that Abrams himself aknowledged was wrong in a recent interview. How good can a director's work be if he has to come out and admit he made a mistake and then explain what he was trying to accomplish?

He didn't have to explain it. He chose to, which was helpful within the context of admitting he made an error. Most filmmakers look back on their films and can recognize their flaws, often better than fans.

This is also a particularly strange criticism considering that George Lucas is the poster-boy for going back and "fixing" his films.

[darkphoenix21]