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  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by taftvalue View Post
    so it was Lucifer all along sending the visions

    I expected as much tbh
    Yeah I always thought it was Lucifer too. Especially when Sam had the vision of young John and he said "I could never really fool you".

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by sino8r View Post
    Me too! I wonder how Michael will factor in. Maybe he'll keep Lucifer in check. Kinda wondering if God will show up finally to prevent anything too crazy from happening? I have my doubts whether even two archangels can stop Amara. The title definitely refers to God. This will be very exciting!
    I am so in. It was pretty obvious with the "Baby" episode who was really pulling the strings with the messages. When John said "I could never fool you could I." it was clear it was Lucifer given he is the only one between he and God that has ever appeared to him and the fact he actually tried to fool him in the episode where he appeared to him as Jess.

    Anyways, I just want to point a few things out:

    1. The book of the damned has reached a completely new level of ridiculousness. It's a minor quibble but where did this nun get this information to write it? Why is it only coming into play now? It's so stupid. But I digress. The story is awesome so I'll let it go.

    2. Why the hell would they think that trusting Rowena is a good idea? It's like come on man. F&*K.

    3. Sam seriously just waltzed into hell without Dean after he told him he would wait for him AGAIN? So much for them being on the same page.

    4. I would think they would go to Michael before Lucifer. He was at the very most confused about the apocalypse in believing it had to happen to where Lucifer is just pure unadulterated evil. I would have written it that way anyhow. I think the WTF scene between Adam and Sam and Dean would have been way more powerful than the scene we just got between Sam and Lucifer and that was a damn good scene in itself.

    5. If the Angels of heaven are using all their power and it was even remotely possible of working on Amara why wouldn't they have ever tried to use that on Lucifer haha? I mean, wow, really buried that lead there guys.

    Anyways, those are just my thoughts upon first viewing. I am sure I will watch it a few more times over the break. Can't wait for Jan 20th. So glad we are in such a great season and overall I give it so far an 8 out of 10.

    Happy Holidays guys!

  3. #18
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    Does anyone else think this plot will inevitably be Dean and Amara being one (very similar to a vessel plot) and that Dean will most likely jump into the void to stop her?

    Remember episode 11.01 that the reaper talked about the void and no one comes back.

    Just feel like that in light of this new episode, where once again Lucifer needs Sam as a vessel.

    Is anyone else really bothered that Adam and Michael were not in the cage?? Wasn't even mentioned. I know they had like this pseudo cage, but then we saw the real cage. Note even a mention of Adam or Michael. Yet they were mentioned being in the cage in episode 200. sigh!!

  4. #19
    Forum Regular sino8r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demosthenes View Post
    Does anyone else think this plot will inevitably be Dean and Amara being one (very similar to a vessel plot) and that Dean will most likely jump into the void to stop her?

    Remember episode 11.01 that the reaper talked about the void and no one comes back.

    Just feel like that in light of this new episode, where once again Lucifer needs Sam as a vessel.

    Is anyone else really bothered that Adam and Michael were not in the cage?? Wasn't even mentioned. I know they had like this pseudo cage, but then we saw the real cage. Note even a mention of Adam or Michael. Yet they were mentioned being in the cage in episode 200. sigh!!
    Yes.... Exactly! As much as I loved this episode, at the end I was like where in the f*ck is Michael?! Couldn't he and God warn Sam about Stupifur?! Why is God a no show?! I get that Sam and Dean could handle the previous threats in the seasons before but this is Satan and God's sister lol! I don't see how this will work out without having a huge twist that none of us are seeing or just through a ridiculous means to an end. I hope during the next episode with Lucifer messing with Sam through one of his tortures (gotta love it has a Christmas twist hehehe!) gets b!tch slapped by Michael at the end of it all and saves Sam by saying yes to him instead. As angry as he must be, I'd trust Michael before Lucifer any day. Riddle me this fellow nerds... What if God turns out to be the bad guy all along?! What if Amara is really a good guy like someone mentioned here before? Why is God still hiding? Could have the angels locked him away in hopes of them taking over via the apocalypse a few seasons ago? Could it be Lucifer who did it and only Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel knew? If someone as powerful as God (Amara specifically) could be locked away... Why not God himself? Could this be the reason for his absence all these years? Maybe the apocalypse was the final step to see which side would take his place? It's insane... I know but it might make some sense especially after all that has happened this season. Anyone else have any theories on why God hasn't shown up this season? Now that I think about it... God couldn't be locked away because he saved Sam and Dean a few times. Could that have been Death instead? And will they address who Death was exactly? Was he not being honest about who and what he was when comparing himself as God's equal? Why can't Sam and Dean just use Deaths scythe on Amara lol?! Didn't Death say it could kill God or anything in the universe?! Why not pull that same crap they used to kill Death? So many questions and inconsistencies but still alot of fun! Love the season anyways hehehe!
    Last edited by sino8r; 12-10-2015 at 12:02 AM.

  5. #20
    Forum Regular Axalon's Avatar
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    insanity all around

  6. #21
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    Soooo....I am assuming that Rowena teleported via spell Lucifer into their holding pen (always a smart idea to try to do something like this ) and that Michael is still in the "real" cage that was see suspended on the cables. Might have been nice to have mentioned Michael.

    And that "promo" for next episode?

  7. #22
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    The more and more I think about the mid season finale episode and the plan to just go balls out into the cage the more dumb I think it is. Not from a writing standpoint though. From just a planning standpoint. The sheer pace at which they went from hell no to OH YEAH was wreckless even more these two muppets. I mean, trusting Rowena to do as she promised, trusting Crowley (not so much a stretch but still stupid), not calling Castiel, not trying to get to Michael before they went to Lucifer, not turning to heaven in general to at least get the bird flipped their way. Not simply trying to figure out what Amara wants. Etc etc. Sam was all about being practical in the beginning of the season. But now he's just wreckless and desperate. It's foolish. I'm sure Dean is going to ream him real good in "The Devil In The Details".

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by sino8r View Post
    Yes.... Exactly! As much as I loved this episode, at the end I was like where in the f*ck is Michael?! Couldn't he and God warn Sam about Stupifur?! Why is God a no show?! I get that Sam and Dean could handle the previous threats in the seasons before but this is Satan and God's sister lol! I don't see how this will work out without having a huge twist that none of us are seeing or just through a ridiculous means to an end. I hope during the next episode with Lucifer messing with Sam through one of his tortures (gotta love it has a Christmas twist hehehe!) gets b!tch slapped by Michael at the end of it all and saves Sam by saying yes to him instead. As angry as he must be, I'd trust Michael before Lucifer any day. Riddle me this fellow nerds... What if God turns out to be the bad guy all along?! What if Amara is really a good guy like someone mentioned here before? Why is God still hiding? Could have the angels locked him away in hopes of them taking over via the apocalypse a few seasons ago? Could it be Lucifer who did it and only Michael, Raphael, and Gabriel knew? If someone as powerful as God (Amara specifically) could be locked away... Why not God himself? Could this be the reason for his absence all these years? Maybe the apocalypse was the final step to see which side would take his place? It's insane... I know but it might make some sense especially after all that has happened this season. Anyone else have any theories on why God hasn't shown up this season? Now that I think about it... God couldn't be locked away because he saved Sam and Dean a few times. Could that have been Death instead? And will they address who Death was exactly? Was he not being honest about who and what he was when comparing himself as God's equal? Why can't Sam and Dean just use Deaths scythe on Amara lol?! Didn't Death say it could kill God or anything in the universe?! Why not pull that same crap they used to kill Death? So many questions and inconsistencies but still alot of fun! Love the season anyways hehehe!
    Yes, now that Sam and Lucifer are in "the" cage, no Adam, no Michael. I'm under the impression we saw previous scenes of Lucifer just by himself. Very frustrating plot holes going on here.

    I do agree with you Sino8r that they want to play the "is Amara really bad or good or indifferent" etc. I think eventually they'll have to figure out how better to explain the sister brother relationship and why this all makes sense morally. Right now I'm not sure if anyone gets it.

    I think the whole God not being around thing is just keeping God as a mysterious "thing." I don't think it was Death nor is he locked away. I'm sure we might see a prophet like Chuck again like we did last season. My guess is that the story will make it seem like he knew all of this the entire time.

    Well, this is more interesting than last season so I'm still on board. Just wish this was a little smoother.

  9. #24
    Forum Regular taftvalue's Avatar
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    weren't they still in the 'fake cage' even at the end of the episode?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by taftvalue View Post
    weren't they still in the 'fake cage' even at the end of the episode?
    not completely sure. Let's say that they are in the fake cage, they did show us multiple times Lucifer in the real cage by himself. No Adam, no Michael. Not even a mention. That's cray cray.

  11. #26
    Forum Regular taftvalue's Avatar
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    I agree it's odd

  12. #27
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    I wonder what Lucifer's true power levels are in Hell. Even though it is his prison it's also his domain. Perhaps he has done something to or with Michael. I am not so bothered by his absence if it is explained in a good way.

  13. #28
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    I think one of the best moments was Rowena's reaction to Lucifer....and Crowley telling her she was drooling....I have to say I'm with her on this one....

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by demosthenes View Post
    I do agree with you Sino8r that they want to play the "is Amara really bad or good or indifferent" etc. I think eventually they'll have to figure out how better to explain the sister brother relationship and why this all makes sense morally. Right now I'm not sure if anyone gets it.
    I don't think they are trying to play the "is Amara bad or good". It's obvious she is bad, evil, dark etc. She wants to devour everything she says. She wants everything to be a part of her. Where as GOD creates. Yes, this is bad for humanity as no one wants their soul sucked out, and we consider it bad, or evil. But good and evil have no meaning at all to Amara.

  15. #30
    Forum Regular ZeoVGM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by demosthenes View Post
    not completely sure. Let's say that they are in the fake cage, they did show us multiple times Lucifer in the real cage by himself. No Adam, no Michael. Not even a mention. That's cray cray.
    Guys, it isn't a plot hole if you're just not paying attention. :P

    Rather than go INTO the cage, Rowena cast a spell that teleported Lucifer to a midway point where there was a different cage. That's still where they were at the end of the episode.

    Also, they only showed Lucifer in the cage a single time -- as the show cut to commercials for the first time. And it was a close-up. Michael/Adam could have easily been in there. Every other time we saw Lucifer in the cage, it was through a vision he sent to Sam. No reason for him to include Michael/Adam in that vision.

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