View Poll Results: What did you think?

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31. You may not vote on this poll
  • 10 - Lots of Soul

    5 16.13%
  • 9

    0 0%
  • 8

    2 6.45%
  • 7

    3 9.68%
  • 6

    2 6.45%
  • 5

    3 9.68%
  • 4

    2 6.45%
  • 3

    1 3.23%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Shrink it and don't find it again for a while

    13 41.94%
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  1. #31
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    O.M.G. Those of you who say we needed a "0" option on the poll are just so wrong. Clearly what we need here are negative numbers.

    Could they possibly have regressed this much?!?!?!

    And could I possibly be blessed any more than to have been given SO much wonderful, wonderful Felicity/Olicity material for snarking purposes?!?!?! I'll have material for weeks and months to come! Oh, Merry Christmas to me! (there's simply no emoticon here I can use to express my utter joy and ecstasy!!!!)
    I can not wait to read this snark. Indeed, this episode is a gift to us all.

  2. #32
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    O.M.G. Those of you who say we needed a "0" option on the poll are just so wrong. Clearly what we need here are negative numbers.

    Could they possibly have regressed this much?!?!?!

    And could I possibly be blessed any more than to have been given SO much wonderful, wonderful Felicity/Olicity material for snarking purposes?!?!?! I'll have material for weeks and months to come! Oh, Merry Christmas to me! (there's simply no emoticon here I can use to express my utter joy and ecstasy!!!!)
    I tried to warn people it was going to be bad when I saw the clip of Ollie and Felicity fighting over mom texting. As bad as Felicity and Oliver were, for me the worst thing was the terrible way they handled the whole Sara L.P. arc. I also think you are selling yourself short, you are obviously capable of tremendous Felicity snark without the help of this unfortunate debacle. As for me, I see no reason to continue watching, so I'm skipping next week, watching the crossover and then returning to just watching clips and reading online reviews to keep up.

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    I love this phrase you used to characterize Felicity! It captures the problem on several different levels with such an economy of words -- gave me a good chuckle
    Always happy to provide that service. And I must say I am also looking forward to your snark moving forward.

  4. #34
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    I am really glad that I don't watch live. With Flash, I avoid spoilers so I can be pleasantly surprised. With Arrow, I tend to check reactions so I know if an episode is going to be a disappointment or not. Before the reactions from last night, I was really looking forward to this episode. I had high hopes that Sara was going to get bonding moments with everyone (and that we'd actually get to see her reaction to Laurel being the BC, see her reassuring Thea that her death wasn't Thea's fault, etc, etc) and I was excited to see Ray back. Of the cast, Brandon Routh is the only one who is a proven, bonafide movie star. So it's unfortunate that he was so underused last season and that his return was the C plot in an episode that was mostly about Olicity relationship drama, and after seeing the series promo awhile back that featured the fight scene where Thea, Sara, and Laurel were kicking ass together, I was REALLY excited to see that.

    So of course, having all of the things I was looking forward to take a back seat to Olicity melodrama was a disappointment. Now, to be fair, I think that they needed to have a fight and make up if the writers were going to sell the relationship to the non-shippers. Having Felicity realize that she lost herself in Oliver and that that's an unhealthy way to be was a positive step. I just wish that this had happened in a different episode from Ray's return and the aftermath of Sara getting her soul back.

    Having Donna around will hopefully give us more of an explanation into the reason why Felicity behaves like a spoiled teenager who is embarrassed of her mother while Donna treats Felicity like she's the sun around which her universe revolves. Because right now, I don't see the reason for Felicity's animosity (beyond the fact that Donna wouldn't let her go to space camp? Seriously?) and utter disdain for her mother.

    And the scene with Donna and Quentin-so... Quentin is either off the wagon again, or still off the wagon (since he was drinking again in last season's finale) and we're not supposed to focus on that, but on the meetcute happening with him and Donna? Really? Considering that Charlotte Ross said that this pairing is happening specifically because the fans demanded it, it's the very definition of fanservice. I don't mind Quentin having a reason to smile, but this is just more proof that the writers are simply choosing their plot by popular opinion. And so I'm almost positive that they'll choose who goes in the grave by how many tweets/Tumblr asks they get begging for it to be this character or that.

    Oh and a sidenote, but Curtis helping out the team this episode was interesting. I wonder if John will keep the 'Spartan' codename or not. I kind of like it. I still haven't decided how I feel about Curtis, but it's hard because he's been on Felicity island and their personalities/mannerisms are so similar. I'd like to see more of him interacting with other characters to really get a feel for the character. And I hope we get to meet his husband at some point.

  5. #35
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    After having seen this week's flashbacks episode I do have to wonder how close is Oliver to becoming his season 1 self, in methods, personality and thinking?

    One thing is in the season 1 Damaged episode Oliver says the mission comes first and I'm not sure I actually see that in "this" Oliver just yet.

  6. #36
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Before I read your reviews I will make just a few pointers, since I don't feel like writing a whole, long post about this one.

    1. There are some parts I enjoyed, like Diggle/Oliver scene (minus that forced Felicity praise - it felt just unnatural) and Ollie's confrontation with Darhk.
    2. Most of the paring stuff between Oliver and Felicity and Donna mixed between it didn't even annoy me - it was just boring as hell. Where did all that relationship drama come from? But wait. It doesn't interest me at all. Apart from one thing - since when Ollie is the most faithful one girlfriend man type?
    3. However, the fact that Green Arrow was exchanging texts with his possible future mother-in-law (including cooking recipes) and Felicity's and Oliver's argument about that were brought to the point to being so absurdous that I found them really funny. Those scenes reached just the level of self-parody.
    4. Flashbacks were nothing special, but kinda okay.
    5. One of the best scenes was the one with Curtis seeing Oliver for the first time - "I'm married and he's straight. I'm married and he's straight". But what came afterwards was even better (Curtis looking at his jaw, trying to figure out if he is the Green Arrow), because it was a great nod to the scene with Harley and Bruce Wayne from Batman TAS episode "Harley's Holiday".
    6. Sara's storyline was completely WASTED. Not a single word about Laurel's taking up Canary's mantle. Really? Really?
    7. Not enough scenes with Lances. Quentin was kinda pushed into background into this episode.
    8. No Quentin's one-liners.
    9. And finally... Quentin RUN before they tangle you into some weird pairing! Unfortunately I still find most of the scenes with Donna irritating...

    Overall it just felt like one big, messy setting for LOT - parts of the episode were watchable, parts can be skipped over without any harm. Nice to see Ray back, but unfortunately it happened in the episode which was flooded with boring melodrama. And I hoped that "Arrow's" showrunners toned down this type of stuff. Stupid me.
    Last edited by Amarice; 11-12-2015 at 04:57 PM.

  7. #37
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    After having seen this week's flashbacks episode I do have to wonder how close is Oliver to becoming his season 1 self, in methods, personality and thinking?

    One thing is in the season 1 Damaged episode Oliver says the mission comes first and I'm not sure I actually see that in "this" Oliver just yet.
    It's a very good question. Actually I think he is not quite there yet. I've had a feeling that he didn't wanted to kill that guy and hesitated for a moment, but eventually came to realise he didn't had a choice. But indeed, the scene when he breaks his neck was very similar to the one with the kidnapper from the "Pilot".

  8. #38
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    After last night's episode, the show should change it's name to Felicity and friends. I felt the Felicity/Oliver fight scenes were unnecessary and did nothing for the overall story arc. Since they like fan pandering so much, I wish they would make Laurel a meta-human and give her a real canary cry. That would be one fan pandering I could support.

  9. #39
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Someone relieve Dreamsofnever's worries about Quentin's drinking (this won't do it since I've been blocked) Quentin specified that he was only drinking club soda.

    About not getting a reaction from Sara about Laurel putting on the mask, count me in among the disappointed. I suppose since they were just shipping Sara off they didn't want to open up any controversy. It's done and TBTB aren't interested in selling it anymore, they just want acceptance.

    An in show reason why it never was addressed might be because Sara doesn't even remember to ask about it. She's apparently lost some memories ( per what she said about her convo with mom) so maybe she figured she's suppose to already know and didn't want to draw attention to her blank spaces by bringing up the subject again?

    As for why there wasn't any more character development or arcs for Sara, it seems clear that t
    Arrow has decided to leave all that to LoT. Flash IMO at least with Stein, Jackson, and Cold did a bit of character exploration but then they haven't done a thing with Kendra apart from showing her on screen. Stein and Jackson probably was required lifting since Ronnie had to be replaced ( and Stein filled the void Wells left for a while) and Cold had to be shown more sympathetic. All Arrow needed to do was bring back Ray and Sara. All the questions about them are being saved for LoT and it makes sense but it's frustrating cause I'm ready tpfir their stories now.

    I won't comment about Felicity or Oliver or Olicity in the episode because frankly, I'd hate to get in the way of the freak out, lol. Everyone seems to be enjoying themselves so much. Me too

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    After last night's episode, the show should change it's name to Felicity and friends. I felt the Felicity/Oliver fight scenes were unnecessary and did nothing for the overall story arc. Since they like fan pandering so much, I wish they would make Laurel a meta-human and give her a real canary cry. That would be one fan pandering I could support.
    I have just watched the "Lost Souls" episode, and for me the greatest problem is that it feels like such BAD and boring television! In my eyes "Arrow" has become a travesty of the show I fell in love with in season one, and right now I'm not sure if the writers will ever be able to recover some of the qualities that got me hooked in the first place. I don't know if it is the mediocre acting from (primarely) EBR and SA, or the lackluster, clunky writing/dialogue, but this episode was a chore to get through...and that is something I never thought I would say about an "Arrow" episode.

    I have very little interest in the Oliver/Felicity romance, but even if I had, I would have lost some of it when watching this ep, because the portrayal of their relationship is frankly so bland and cliché that I find my mind wandering during their shared scenes.

    And it's not only Olicity that I find lackluster. This new happy and domesticated Oliver has become such a BORE that cannot for my life understand why I once found him so fascinating. I never expected him to remain the suffering, stoic PTSD victim he was in season one and two for five seasons, but when the complexity of his season one and two character portrayal (killer mindset, suppressed feelings for a woman he can't have, a crushing sense of responsibility to right his father's wrongs etc.) is gone, there is IMHO nothing really interesting about him anymore. He's just Felicity's master chef boyfriend, who occasionally puts on a leather costume to provide the necessary action sequences (which are so poorly done that they have become pretty boring to watch as well). And when you're watching an Olicity/Felicity-heavy episode like "Lost Souls", it's really difficult to shake the impression that you're watching a tumblr fan fic, where the major aim of most scenes is either to hammer in how awesome the Oliver/Felicity romance is, or to show what fabulous woman Felicity Smoak is (which was the whole point of the Diggle/Oliver convo in the lair). And is there really any storytelling point to the Donna/Quentin scene, apart from catering to the Internet fans who have been clamoring for "Smoak and Lance" on twitter ever since Donna Smoak appeared on the show?

    Just to avoid any misunderstandings...I like relationship drama, and some of my favourite shows are very much focused on the depiction of various character relationships: series like "Orange is the new black", "Homeland", "Californication", or even sit coms like "Friends" (I'm bingewatching the early episodes right now, and I'm rediscovering the magic!). The crucial difference between season four "Arrow" and these shows is that THEY are much better written and acted than "Arrow" is right now, and that they actually make you care about what is happening between the characters (conflicts, unresolved feelings etc.) EVEN if you're not emotionally invested in a particular romantic pairing.

    The other difference is that they manage to incorporate the emotional/romantic aspect with the unfolding of the overall action/plot. One example is season four "Homeland", where the mutual attraction and deep emotional bond between Carrie/Peter Quinn was simmering below the surface during the whole season, without overtaking the overall plot, and without sidelining all the other characters and their relationships. When Carrie and Peter finally kissed, it felt that it was something that had been built up all throughout the whole season, without ever getting in your face or taking over the narrative.

    I'm sorry that I can't say the same about season three and season four Olicity. There is very little sophistication or subtext when it comes to how these two characters and their romance are portrayed on the show. I'm sad to say that I feel partly the same way about how the Laurel/Sara relationship was portrayed in "Lost Souls". I don't know if it was due to lack of screen time, but the whole thing just felt very perfunctory and rushed, something which took away the whole impact and importance of Sara's resurrection and what it meant to the Lance family and to Laurel. The writers didn't even care enough about the Lance sisters to include a scene where Sara and Laurel talk about Laurel's Black Canary persona/vigilante mission, although Sara and her death was supposedly Laurel's main incentive for becoming a masked vigilante in the first place.

    In general this episode felt like a poorly executed mix of standard CW romance drama and a badly written action/adventure show. It was definitely a step down from "Haunted", which at least was fun to watch. I'm aware that a CW superhero show like "Arrow" will never be able to compete with the other shows that I mentioned when it comes to the writing or the acting, and I don't expect it to. However, right now I feel that "The Flash" writers and actors put a lot more heart and thought into the interaction between their main characters than "Arrow" does, despite the fact that they use the same storytelling tropes and conventions.
    Last edited by evaba; 11-13-2015 at 02:48 AM.

  11. #41
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    In general this episode felt like a poorly executed mix of standard CW romance drama and a badly written action/adventure show. It was definitely a step down from "Haunted", which at least was fun to watch. I'm aware that a CW superhero show like "Arrow" will never be able to compete with the other shows that I mentioned when it comes to the writing or the acting, and I don't expect it to. However, right now I feel that "The Flash" writers and actors put a lot more heart and thought into the interaction between their main characters than "Arrow" does, despite the fact that they use the same storytelling tropes and conventions.
    ^This^

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    It's a very good question. Actually I think he is not quite there yet. I've had a feeling that he didn't wanted to kill that guy and hesitated for a moment, but eventually came to realise he didn't had a choice. But indeed, the scene when he breaks his neck was very similar to the one with the kidnapper from the "Pilot".
    Yea I get the feeling he's not quite there just yet. Hopefully this year he will be there and if we're lucky mid way through or their island flashback special episode. It was similar to the pilot episode on the neck break.

    Maybe will actually have Oliver have a conversation with someone where he does discuss the promise he made to his father and really gets his mind set to right his father's wrongs like we have seen him with near obsessive view in season 1. Or at least if he has it they acknowledge that as well.

    Which speaking of the scene in the lake when it panned back around to Oliver when he was looking at that group well to put it the best way I can think of into words he looked very raw and dangerous.

  13. #43
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Most of the paring stuff between Oliver and Felicity and Donna mixed between it didn't even annoy me - it was just boring as hell. Where did all that relationship drama come from? But wait. It doesn't interest me at all. Apart from one thing - since when Ollie is the most faithful one girlfriend man type?
    All of season three he was faithful to a woman he wasn't even in a relationship with. I expect nothing less when he is actually IN the relationship with her.

  14. #44
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    I like the episode except for it seemed a bit too crowded. I know Sara and Ray will be cast regular in LOT and when they leave for that show it won't seem too crowded.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    All of season three he was faithful to a woman he wasn't even in a relationship with. I expect nothing less when he is actually IN the relationship with her.
    That's just the point, Oliver Queen is not a faithful one-woman type character (neither in the comics nor on this show up until full blown Olicity) but when it revolves around Felicity suddenly he jumps completely out of character and becomes the most faithful little puppy to please this badass wonder woman who has nearly zero character depth. You and I will definitely disagree on the amount of depth Felicity has but it's hard to deny how out of character Oliver is when it comes to his relationship with her.
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 11-12-2015 at 10:21 PM.

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