View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Lots of Soul

    5 16.13%
  • 9

    0 0%
  • 8

    2 6.45%
  • 7

    3 9.68%
  • 6

    2 6.45%
  • 5

    3 9.68%
  • 4

    2 6.45%
  • 3

    1 3.23%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Shrink it and don't find it again for a while

    13 41.94%
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  1. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I'm guessing here of course, but I think @JD brought up the issue of ratings/demos because the more hardcore Felicity/Olicity fans have been claiming for SEASONS now that Laurel is a ratings killer and that Felicity/Olicity is the show's major asset and a huge audience draw. In their efforts to make Felicity special and important they have repeatedly referred to the ratings, making up elaborate charts trying to "prove" that ratings go down when there is a Laurel-centric episode and up when there is a Felicity/Olicity-centric episode.

    For example, before the supposedly "Laurel-centric" season three episodes were shown many Olicity fans predicted that the ratings would tank, because WHO would want to watch an episode centered on such a failed, impopular and superfluous character as Laurel? Of course, when the ratings were just fine, these same hardcore fans would come up with various justifications, such as that the viewers wanted to see how the team would manage without Oliver, or that the episode dealt as much with the other team members as with Laurel (which most of the so-called "Laurel-centric" eps actually did!). However, (and to connect this post with some of your comments) these eps WERE advertised as focusing on Laurel's BC arc, and despite this the viewers did NOT flee from their television sets!

    I think it is these constant attempts to use the ratings/demos to prop Felicity/Olicity, and somehow prove that she and her romance with Oliver is just as essential to the casual viewer as it is to their most ardent online shipper fanbase that makes the rest of us notice when Felicity/Olicity-centric episodes don't do any better than any other episodes. In fact, as @JD pointed out, many eps where Laurel storylines, or other storylines have been in the center, and where Felicity has played a minor role, have in fact done BETTER ratings-wise than the Felicity-centric episodes.

    I don't think the predominance of any specific character or storyline has any impact on the ratings (while other factors are more likely to affect viewership, as you yourself point out), since the great majority of casual viewers are not as invested in specific characters/ships as the most active online fans. However, if the Felicity/Olicity fandom is going to use ratings in their ongoing attempt to elevate Felicity and her importance for the show, as well as to disqualify/put down Laurel's character, I think that the non-shipper fans have every right to point out that Felicity/Olicity-heavy eps are in no way bringing in more viewers than any other episodes.

    Furthermore, there was a significant drop in viewers between the first and the second half of "Lost Souls", which means that even those viewers who DID tune in to watch Ray's rescue tuned out and did something else for the rest of the episode.

    To sum up: I think what annoys many non-shipper fans is that the hardcore oliciters who use ratings as evidence of Felicity's popularity (and Laurel's lack of popularity) ONLY notice the fluctuations in the ratings when it suits their agenda. That is why there has been very little talk about ratings from the hardcore oliciter faction after "Lost Souls". However, I'm pretty sure that IF this ep had been Laurel-centric, they would have rejoiced and mentioned the low ratings everywhere. If you're going to use ratings as an argument for or against a character, you cannot cherry pick the instances that suit your agenda, and come up with various explanations/rationalizations whenever a Felicity-centric episode gets lower ratings than the season average.
    Precisely. And before anyone tries to say I'm doing this to promote Laurel: I was a harsh critic of the character back during Season 2, and during moments in Season 3. I criticize any character whose arc makes no sense. Sadly, because of the way the show is being run, that means Laurel's storyline has been a mess since Day 1, but at least she had backstory from Day 1 as well. We had to wait a season and a half for any backstory for Felicity, which was her mentioning how she doesn't mention her family. Then we got a bit about her mother in 2x21, and then finally saw something in 3x05 that gave us something.

    Now, I didn't know the bit about how it lost viewers partway through the episode. Considering the rescue took place in the second half of the episode, that would mean if it was due to what was happening, it was either the Island storyline, or the Olicity melodrama. And sorry, the Island storyline isn't a tune-out thing IMO.

  2. #107
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    Now, I didn't know the bit about how it lost viewers partway through the episode. Considering the rescue took place in the second half of the episode, that would mean if it was due to what was happening, it was either the Island storyline, or the Olicity melodrama. And sorry, the Island storyline isn't a tune-out thing IMO
    There is a journalist on Spoiler TV who apparently keeps track of these things, and he presented the following chart:


    8:00 - 2.37 million viewers and a 0.9 demo

    8:30 - 2.18 million viewers and a 0.9 demo

    So, the demo remained the same, but quite a few viewers stopped watching in the last half hour.

  3. #108
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    If you're going to use ratings as an argument for or against a character, you cannot cherry pick the instances that suit your agenda, and come up with various explanations/rationalizations whenever a Felicity-centric episode gets lower ratings than the season average.
    Except I am not the one cherry picking and trying to blame ratings for or against a storyline. I was pointing out why that doesn't work and how easy it is to point blame.

    8:00 - 2.37 million viewers and a 0.9 demo

    8:30 - 2.18 million viewers and a 0.9 demo

    So, the demo remained the same, but quite a few viewers stopped watching in the last half hour.
    Hey, it you really want to go there, let me point out that the drop in viewership that just didn't show up at all - the ones that very well could have judged the content of recent previous episodes negatively and perhaps also weren't impressed with a seemingly Ray centric episode -is higher than the drop that left the back half of the episode.

    It is POINTLESS to point fingers at individual episode numbers and that goes all around. There will always be some easy explanation to spin something a certain way. All I'm doing is pointing out the fallacy of group thinking the faulty must lie with Olicity.

  4. #109
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    It is POINTLESS to point fingers at individual episode numbers and that goes all around. There will always be some easy explanation to spin something a certain way. All I'm doing is pointing out the fallacy of group thinking the faulty must lie with Olicity.
    It certainly is, and I also pointed this out in my reply:

    don't think the predominance of any specific character or storyline has any impact on the ratings (while other factors are more likely to affect viewership, as you yourself point out), since the great majority of casual viewers are not as invested in specific characters/ships as the most active online fans.
    However, as I also pointed out, it is a very common practice on Oliciter-heavy social media to "blame" Laurel for poor ratings. In fact, I was reading the ratings/spoiler threads on some oliciter-dominated forums before the Canary Trilogy, and almost everyone on these forums were predicting poor ratings, because they seem to believe that the audience at large shares their own opinion of "Arrow" and its characters. So, when the ratings for "Canaries" and the other supposedly Laurel-heavy eps proved to be fully satisfactory, many posters on these forums were incredulous and even rather "salty" and disappointed that their predictions were incorrect.

    You may not share the misconception that certain characters/ships bring down the ratings, while others bring them up, but it seems to be a rather common view in parts of the "Arrow" fandom. I guess what I want to say is that it's not the Laurel fans or the general fans who started with all this "finger pointing", but mainly the oliciter fanbase, and my or @JD's comments are just a response to these misguided claims.

    As for the loss of viewers during the last half hour there may be many reasons, and I wouldn't say that the Olicity relationship drama had any decisive influence on viewing patterns. Also, let's remember that several season two eps had ratings around 2.3/0.9, so the comparatively low ratings aren't exceptional or worrying. It's only if the ratings continue to drop that the "Arrow" TPTB may have to rethink their priorities and step up when it comes to the quality of the writing.
    Last edited by evaba; 11-17-2015 at 02:28 PM.

  5. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    As for the loss of viewers during the last half hour there may be many reasons, and I wouldn't say that the Olicity relationship drama had any decisive influence on viewing patterns. Also, let's remember that several season two eps had ratings around 2.3/0.9, so the comparatively low ratings aren't exceptional or worrying. It's only if the ratings continue to drop that the "Arrow" TPTB may have to rethink their priorities and step up when it comes to the quality of the writing.
    Sadly for me, that's much to late for my taste. The writing for the show needs to notch up immediately if it wants any chance of regaining me as a regular viewer. I find it sad to know that society is so willing to embrace sub par quality in a world that should be able to supply all of us more than enough high quality material, it reflects a lack of self worth and I wonder how somebody that doesn't demand the highest quality for themselves to deliver their highest quality for the rest of society.

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    Sadly for me, that's much to late for my taste. The writing for the show needs to notch up immediately if it wants any chance of regaining me as a regular viewer. I find it sad to know that society is so willing to embrace sub par quality in a world that should be able to supply all of us more than enough high quality material, it reflects a lack of self worth and I wonder how somebody that doesn't demand the highest quality for themselves to deliver their highest quality for the rest of society.
    I would have to agree. After watching season 1 then the rest of the reasons you can't help but feel disappointed that since they had that high of quality once to then go down to what the show has become. There's a reason why I call Arrow season 1 of it being like no other comic book show that the CW produced or probably ever will again.

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