View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Awesome

    4 28.57%
  • 9

    4 28.57%
  • 8

    1 7.14%
  • 7

    3 21.43%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    2 14.29%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - This show is beyond redemption.

    0 0%
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  1. #16
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    The writers weren't, but posters making comments about Sara "stewing in crazy" and going into a "crazy homicidal rage" are really offensive to me and likely to others.
    Well, if such comments can be used to take yet another stab at Laurel, they will be used....

  2. #17
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Crazy isn't a word that is limited to refer to mental illness ( and I'd think applying it to someone that is not suffering from mental illness would be a more appropriate use of a very general word ).

    Crazy also means irrational and since there was no reasoning with Sara, labeling her behavior irrational aka crazy is in keeping with the definition. Merely saying she was soulless would not describe her actions, attitude, or behavior since being soulless is an affliction limited to fiction and not a condition with commonly agreed upon side effects.

    I don't think anyone believes or is suggesting that any true sufferer of mental illness is also without a soul. I've seen nothing to suggest any intent along those lines. Sara is pit crazy. Not suffering from a mental illness.

  3. #18
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Then why not use 'irrational' instead? Crazy is a lot more often used as a negative way to describe people with mental illness (and the 'irrational' side of the definition is part of the reason it's used in that way).

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    She was fighting one on one with the officer but than the other came back and tazed her.
    It looked like it was a struggle...

  5. #20
    Forum Whiz TheSecretVampire's Avatar
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    The only thing that annoyed me in this episode was how much of a struggle it was for Oliver and his cohorts against those villain cops, yet, they had no trouble at all against the League of Assassins. They swatted the League like flies and needed overtime to defeat those cop villains......it should've been the complete opposite for both battles.

  6. #21
    Site Groupie SteelyGal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSecretVampire View Post
    The only thing that annoyed me in this episode was how much of a struggle it was for Oliver and his cohorts against those villain cops, yet, they had no trouble at all against the League of Assassins. They swatted the League like flies and needed overtime to defeat those cop villains......it should've been the complete opposite for both battles.
    I had a few other issues with this episode but that one bugged me the most especially when that one cop got the drop on Oliver. If these guys have that much struggle taking down bad cops, they shouldn't be able take down Damien Darkk and his crew but they will.

  7. #22
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dreamsofnever View Post
    Then why not use 'irrational' instead? Crazy is a lot more often used as a negative way to describe people with mental illness (and the 'irrational' side of the definition is part of the reason it's used in that way).
    Because crazy is a broader word. It also covers her instability, her being unpredictable, her lack of understanding, her feral behavior and her attempt to attack her loved ones. Again, I would think it would be far preferred that crazy is associated by what Sara was going through rather than an actual mental illness. Do they even refer to people with mental illness as crazy except in a derogatory and highly inaccurate way? I'd think an undead soulless monster that's confused and filled with a bloodlust would be the more appropriate time to use crazy.

  8. #23
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Because crazy is a broader word. It also covers her instability, her being unpredictable, her lack of understanding, her feral behavior and her attempt to attack her loved ones. Again, I would think it would be far preferred that crazy is associated by what Sara was going through rather than an actual mental illness. Do they even refer to people with mental illness as crazy except in a derogatory and highly inaccurate way? I'd think an undead soulless monster that's confused and filled with a bloodlust would be the more appropriate time to use crazy.
    It IS used as a derogatory word towards mentally ill people, but that's the most common use of it. And as much as I wish that crazy wasn't used in that inaccurate way, that is the most common usage so how are we supposed to know that you didn't mean it in that way, but in a different way? That's my whole point. The way the post was worded read, to me, like a hurtful comparison of mental illness (using something that is essentially a slur) to Sara's soulless state. And while I appreciate you clarifying your intentions, I'm going to ask again that we try to be a little more civil when throwing around terms like crazy and insane.

  9. #24
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Am I correct in my conclusion that it would be your preference to scrub the usage of crazy or insane or lunatic or nuts or wacko or bonkers from any usage in the English language?

  10. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteelyGal View Post
    I had a few other issues with this episode but that one bugged me the most especially when that one cop got the drop on Oliver. If these guys have that much struggle taking down bad cops, they shouldn't be able take down Damien Darkk and his crew but they will.
    Yeah it is rather ridiculous that that one cop got the jump on Oliver but Oliver was able to recover rather quickly after being stabbed and strangled. Maybe he stole some Lazarus .

  11. #26
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    Yeah it is rather ridiculous that that one cop got the jump on Oliver but Oliver was able to recover rather quickly after being stabbed and strangled. Maybe he stole some Lazarus .
    The only thing I can think of was maybe the knife wasn't at all deep. She was threatening to cut the spinal cord, that would be right at the surface, maybe she was going to start at the top and go down, thus only barely stabbing him?

    Yeah, I'm trying very hard here to make it work.

  12. #27
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Thea Buys 80 Keys!

    Im sorry but this part was pretty funny to me (probably b/c Im just ignorant)

    But wow who knew Thea had been such a good customer back in the day!

    So: being back around drugs and clubs reminded her of her high school days --- I guess those were the days when shed buy what, oh about 80 keys give or take for a weekend party!! Really? Her old dealer didnt think it was any big deal to sell her 80 kgs of coke? That sure seems like a lot for recreational customers (I found a reference from 2010 that coke retailed for roughly $169 per gram**), so Palmer Tech had to fork out what? About 13 million give or take? Interesting investment for Palmer Tech how will they recoup that? What are they going to do with all of it now that the crooked-cop-sting is over? If Dig kept the receipt, can they get a refund? Can they get a tax credit? (Im not trying to get any snarky sideways digs in at Felicity or Palmer Tech here, I promise. )

    And then I had to laugh when Oliver went and off-handedly informed Quentin, Ive had Thea procure a couple kilos of cocaine.

    I hope those with DEA expertise will correct what Im sure are all my misconceptions here that Im having some trouble suspending disbelief ( ie teens and young adults do buy about 80 keys from their dealers for friends at parties?) and then I promise I will admit my ignorance and take this part seriously, seriously! Any help so I can buy-in to this part of the story will be much appreciated!

    **Source: US Office of National Drug Control Policy. Based on purchases of 2 grams or less so maybe Thea got a discount for being a really good customer? https://www.unodc.org/unodc/secured/...oin_Prices.pdf

  13. #28
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    It was so bizzare to me when something, which was my headcanon for so long, found the confirmation in the show. Ollie admitting openly that he values how Lance sees him. Guess that explains why Quentin was the police detective he did choose to bother back in the season 1. I liked all of their scenes together - as the other commenters already said - some of the most powerful ones in the whole show. I always liked the dynamic between the two of them (I guess I keep it repeating in all my reviews and half of my posts), and in "Beyond Redemption" both Paul Blackthorne and Stephen Amell showed really good piece of acting. And later, when Lance breaks down... It was really heartbreaking. Seems that his redemption story arc begins (they even exchanged a handshake - something I also wanted to see on the screen one day), but unfortunately I'm 98% sure it will lead to Lance's utter demise. I like him. He is doomed. Sorry, Quentin.

    Nice brother-sister moments, quite good side story with Ollie running as mayor (pretty naive, though), Arrowcave 3.0 (and Lance visiting it!), great Paul Blackthorne with some great one-liners - those are strong points of this episode.

    "So these visits, are they going to be a, uh, weekly thing?"

    "After what happened to the last few mayors, I'm hoping you win in a landslide."

    "What, are you going to tell me you're running for president now?"

    "What, I don't get a code name like the rest of you?"

    "And no, I'm not ok."
    [Finally someone said this!]

    "Don't worry; I got enough to put you away for 25 years. Kidding."

    "Oh, jeez. Heh. You know I got a heart condition, right?"

    "You got your own key or something?"



    Okay, now we are getting to the BUT section. So, I enjoyed Lance-centric episode, BUT not really a fan of the main plot of the episode. The story with the dirty cops was a good one, but sorry to say - found their acting rather wooden. Besides how it's possible that six cops from the Special Vigilante Task Force seemingly easily kick asses of four vigilantes when previously they didn't even came close to capturing the Arrow (maybe one or two times, when he himself walked into the trap - but that time there was like two dozens of them). And Ms. Ladycop, who takes Green Arrow by surprise as he was an amateur. Srsly? WHAT has happened with his fighting and always-mind-your-surrounding-skills?! Couldn't she just shot him in the back or something, and then put that knife to his throat? Would turned out more believable since the show clarified long time ago that being shot is like having a papercut. Also, as many of you had said - the scenes with Sara turned out rather silly - keeping her in the public basement in chains, when she was obviously not well, couldn't turn out good. And it didn't. A bit mixed feelings about this episode then - really enjoyed Lance's parts, but some other bring it down for me a bit.
    Last edited by Amarice; 10-30-2015 at 08:04 AM.

  14. #29
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    It is a miracle that Lance didn't drop dead in this episode. Between Oliver scaring the bejesus out of him when he broke into his apartment (three times), Laurel not giving him any warning before his dead daughter lunged at him in chains, and having a firefight with dirty cops his "heart condition" was getting a workout.
    Lol, I was wondering about this too. Seems his heart is a problem only when it is supposed to be a problem.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Thea Buys 80 Keys!

    Im sorry but this part was pretty funny to me (probably b/c Im just ignorant)

    But wow who knew Thea had been such a good customer back in the day!

    So: being back around drugs and clubs reminded her of her high school days --- I guess those were the days when shed buy what, oh about 80 keys give or take for a weekend party!! Really? Her old dealer didnt think it was any big deal to sell her 80 kgs of coke? That sure seems like a lot for recreational customers (I found a reference from 2010 that coke retailed for roughly $169 per gram**), so Palmer Tech had to fork out what? About 13 million give or take? Interesting investment for Palmer Tech how will they recoup that? What are they going to do with all of it now that the crooked-cop-sting is over? If Dig kept the receipt, can they get a refund? Can they get a tax credit? (Im not trying to get any snarky sideways digs in at Felicity or Palmer Tech here, I promise. )

    And then I had to laugh when Oliver went and off-handedly informed Quentin, Ive had Thea procure a couple kilos of cocaine.

    I hope those with DEA expertise will correct what Im sure are all my misconceptions here that Im having some trouble suspending disbelief ( ie teens and young adults do buy about 80 keys from their dealers for friends at parties?) and then I promise I will admit my ignorance and take this part seriously, seriously! Any help so I can buy-in to this part of the story will be much appreciated!

    **Source: US Office of National Drug Control Policy. Based on purchases of 2 grams or less so maybe Thea got a discount for being a really good customer? https://www.unodc.org/unodc/secured/...oin_Prices.pdf
    I found that part hilarious as well! The amount of cocaine that Thea purchased for her party would probably be worth millions on the street. It's a good thing that the rest of the episode was so enjoyable, because that part made REALLY big demands on my ability to suspend my disbelief!

    I'm also wondering why we're not hearing any condemnatory rants about super-CEO Felicity Smoak forking out money that rightly belongs to her almost bankrupt company to an illegal team of vigilantes??? I'm sure that her willingness to spend company money on stuff that has nothing to do with the company is intended to make her seem even fabulous and vital to the team's survival, but from a real world perspective that looks suspiciously like embesslement.

    I'm exaggerating here, of course, so the forum's resident Felicity defenders need not come to her rescue.

    Anyway, the fact that we were spared the OTA references/Olicity PDA/badass Felicity that we got in the "Restoration" episode (some of which felt like fanservice to me), and the highlighting of a neglected character and a fine actor (Paul Blackthorne) made this episode a whole lot more enjoyable than the last one, at least in my eyes.
    Last edited by evaba; 10-30-2015 at 07:03 AM.

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