View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Awesome

    4 28.57%
  • 9

    4 28.57%
  • 8

    1 7.14%
  • 7

    3 21.43%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    2 14.29%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - This show is beyond redemption.

    0 0%
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  1. #46
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    A interesting post, Bkwurm. I'm really surprised no one has actually came and responded to this before now. I mean are you guys that obsessed with Felicity Smoak?
    I don't think that there have been THAT many posts (negative or positive) about Felicity Smoak in this thread, or in any other thread. On the other hand, BkWurm herself has written a long series of posts detailing Laurel's many flaws and faults, including her episode review in this very thread.

    As far as I know, nobody here has called her "obsessed with Laurel Lance"...They have rather tried to respond to her IMHO sometimes rather harsh and condemnatory criticism in a courteous and respectful manner. Other posters here, like (@Shelby or yours truly) might find Felicity's character portrayal equally problematic, albeit from another POV (e.g. as "stereotypical" or forced), and I don't see anything wrong in expressing those opinions on a discussion forum. What I want to say is that Felicity is not except from criticism, and writing a few posts about aspects of her character portrayal that could be considered annoying in some viewers' eyes is no more "obsessive" than the kind of Laurel-criticism that we see in some other threads here.

    Anyways, I'm enjoying this season's Island flashbacks much more than the season three Hongkong flashbacks, which mostly showed Oliver running around on the same crowded Hongkong street! I'm also deliriously happy that the Flashback Horror Wig is gone, because it was so distracting, and I'm looking forward to Oliver's budding romance with the girl working in the poppy fields. I wish that the writers hadn't given her that fake foreign accent, but I guess they wanted to emphasize that she isn't American. Anyway, the flashbacks seem a lot more interesting this year than last year's flashbacks, which were as poorly written as the present-day action.
    Last edited by evaba; 11-01-2015 at 05:35 AM.

  2. #47
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I actually feel the same about Oliver's response...it is as if he HAS to smile in a tender and beaming manner whenever Felicity makes one of her quips or gaffes, just to show the viewers that Felicity is indeed his light and source of happiness. I personally find the interaction between Oliver and Felicity more natural and real when they don't have to live up to this preconceived idea about their relationship and just interact like a normal couple, rather than the Damaged Hero and his Manic Pixie Dreamgirl.
    Glad to hear someone else has also had this reaction about some of the shots of Oliver's responses to Felicity's latest dither. Yes, sometimes it works, other times it's the same "sign-post" effect and pulls me out of the scene....

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    I'm also deliriously happy that the Flashback Horror Wig is gone, because it was so distracting,
    Agree, but (there's always a but...)..... I think b/c in my work I have to spend a lot of time anticipating what might, and is likely to, go wrong , then as happy as I was to not see the wig, I immediately started thinking about when the wig would need to make a reappearance b/c when he's "officially" rescued (in pilot) his hair's what? close to shoulder length? If a rough estimate of hair growth is about 0.5 inch/mo. (crude est. and not accounting for individual variations etc....) .... then eventually -- not necessarily this season but if the show wants to depict his activities within a what? 6-9 mo, or maybe even a bit longer, period of time prior to the official rescue -- the wigs will have to come back...

  3. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Glad to hear someone else has also had this reaction about some of the shots of Oliver's responses to Felicity's latest dither. Yes, sometimes it works, other times it's the same "sign-post" effect and pulls me out of the scene....



    Agree, but (there's always a but...)..... I think b/c in my work I have to spend a lot of time anticipating what might, and is likely to, go wrong , then as happy as I was to not see the wig, I immediately started thinking about when the wig would need to make a reappearance b/c when he's "officially" rescued (in pilot) his hair's what? close to shoulder length? If a rough estimate of hair growth is about 0.5 inch/mo. (crude est. and not accounting for individual variations etc....) .... then eventually -- not necessarily this season but if the show wants to depict his activities within a what? 6-9 mo, or maybe even a bit longer, period of time prior to the official rescue -- the wigs will have to come back...
    Well, considering that the producers/writers have retconned SO many other, more important, season one plot details, I don't think that Oliver's hair length in the Pilot will be any major problem. IF they even plan to return to the moment that Oliver is rescued again, I think they can get away with him having shorter hair than the Robinson Crusoe hair do he sported in the Pilot, without many people reacting. The great majority of the viewers are probably not as picky about story continuity as we are!

  4. #49
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post



    Agree, but (there's always a but...)..... I think b/c in my work I have to spend a lot of time anticipating what might, and is likely to, go wrong , then as happy as I was to not see the wig, I immediately started thinking about when the wig would need to make a reappearance b/c when he's "officially" rescued (in pilot) his hair's what? close to shoulder length? If a rough estimate of hair growth is about 0.5 inch/mo. (crude est. and not accounting for individual variations etc....) .... then eventually -- not necessarily this season but if the show wants to depict his activities within a what? 6-9 mo, or maybe even a bit longer, period of time prior to the official rescue -- the wigs will have to come back...
    At this point I'm rooting for the rescue hair and beard to have been fake. He gets rescued by the Chinese fishing trawler, goes into the head and "cleans up" and poof! We're all good!

  5. #50
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    I mean are you guys that obsessed with Felicity Smoak?
    Yes. Like when a fly is buzzing around, annoying the heck out of me and all I can think about is crushing it with that rolled up magazine I've been idiotically brandishing around the room while leaping on and off various pieces of furniture.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    A interesting post, Bkwurm. I'm really surprised no one has actually came and responded to this before now.
    Yes, actually I've been waiting to see what your answer might be as it seems to me that you are one who has expressed some of the most enjoyment of the flashbacks. I've felt neutral about them so far (probably b/c busy with above said-activity/Felicity obsession --and you know there's no cognitive room for anything else when one has such an obsessive hobby....)

    I agree it's a good question. Saw an (official) review after the second ep (I think) where the reviewer was critical of the interjection of the flashbacks in terms of where they were placed in relation to the current storyline and the reviewer felt they detracted from it (such as one occurred right after the scene where Oliver expresses concern about Thea's mental status and Diggle asks him what he's going to do about it..... then bam, flashback and never get back to Oliver addressing Dig's question....). Found that interesting. Looking forward to hearing what others who are really enjoying them like. As I said, I don't dislike them or find them annoying --- I'm just neutral at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by evaba View Post
    Well, considering that the producers/writers have retconned SO many other, more important, season one plot details, I don't think that Oliver's hair length in the Pilot will be any major problem. IF they even plan to return to the moment that Oliver is rescued again, I think they can get away with him having shorter hair than the Robinson Crusoe hair do he sported in the Pilot, without many people reacting. The great majority of the viewers are probably not as picky about story continuity as we are!
    Actually, that has been my theory. That the showrunners will just overlook the whole timing of the length-of-his-hair-when-he-gets-rescued issue b/c I don't think they're very careful about things. But, for now, I have to give them the benefit of the doubt ....

  6. #51
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    At this point I'm rooting for the rescue hair and beard to have been fake. He gets rescued by the Chinese fishing trawler, goes into the head and "cleans up" and poof! We're all good!
    I like that...that could work. Hope you're right. These show runners need to consult you (and a lot of other creative types here on the boards) ...

  7. #52
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    On what else could they be doing besides the poppy fields or what they are doing besides the stuff we've kind of pieced together really the only season where we knew what the main buy really wanted or after pre mid season finale was in 20X6 aka the Keep Your Enemies Closer episode. That was the first time we saw what Ivo's real plans were.

    In season 1 I don't think we ever found out until Darkness on the Edge of Town of Fyers wanting to blow up a plane and that was the second to last episode.

    In season 3 while we knew of The Omega virus by The Climb episode we never really found out that it General Shrieve who wanted to use the Alpha/Omega bio weapon against Hong Kong until Broken Arrow.

    That's all for now.
    It's true that we've had to wait for details on what was going to be happening but season one benefited from us knowing nothing about Oliver's time on the island so even getting trapped in a cave or forced to kill a bird was interesting. Season two we returned to characters that we previously cared about so even as they were just going about their normal activities, I was invested.

    Season three was hard not to be bored by, but at least by the end of the first flashback, we knew what was at stake, Maseo's family. In the end, I cared about the characters, but I never found the season three flashbacks consistently worthy of my attention. Sometimes, but not most of the time.

    This year though, despite my impression that there is even less at stake and we are induced to care about really no one and on top of all that there has not been any good movement on the plot, I have for the past three weeks (four really but the first week I understand) seen a lot of appreciation for the flashbacks and I'm just trying to understand what is catching anyone's attention.

    I do know a spoiler for next week which tells me I'll find the FB interesting, but that may be just an aberration, not real plot movement.

    Is the enjoyment perhaps a product of anticipation of good things to come? Or is it being back on the island and the residual high of death to the mullet?
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 11-01-2015 at 06:15 AM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    It's true that we've had to wait for details on what was going to be happening but season one benefited from us knowing nothing about Oliver's time on the island so even getting trapped in a cave or forced to kill a bird was interesting. Season two we returned to characters that we previously cared about so even as they were just going about their normal activities, I was invested.

    Season three was hard not to be bored by, but at least by the end of the first flashback, we knew what was at stake, Maseo's family. In the end, I cared about the characters, but I never found the season three flashbacks consistently worthy of my attention. Sometimes, but not most of the time.

    This year though, despite my impression that there is even less at stake and we are induced to care about really no one and on top of all that there has not been any good movement on the plot, I have for the past three weeks (four really but the first week I understand) seen a lot of appreciation for the flashbacks and I'm just trying to understand what is catching anyone's attention.

    I do know a spoiler for next week which tells me I'll find the FB interesting, but that may be just an aberration, not real plot movement.

    Is the enjoyment perhaps a product of anticipation of good things to come? Or is it being back on the island and the residual high of death to the mullet?
    Well a part of it is the anticipation of good things to come considering every year we get closer to the him in the pilot and how he learned to do various skills or got them. Him being back on Lian Yu helps which like I've said before I hope he stays there. I'm happy about the death to the mullet until they have him regrow it. Hopefully they will be smart about it.

    Now I will admit as of right now their plot is moving slow and it's hard to care about the characters. Something I hope that changes soon although to be fair on the characters I never really cared for anyone after Slade and Shado died. Maseo and Tatsu eventually grew on me to a certain extent but I never did care for them like I did the original island trio.

    Also since I'm dissecting the flashbacks a bit I do kind of wish they actually had progressed Oliver on his becoming The Hood and persona from season 1 a bit sooner.

    Getting back to why I like the flashbacks is it's a clean and simple. What I mean by that is no muliti different characters running around, no Felicity Smoak and yes even Diggle, no horrible romance stuff, etc. with also it's just Oliver doing all this by himself to a certain extent. Plus Oliver is becoming The Hood persona and that's one reason why I started watching the show in the first place. If it started off as Oliver in like being The Arrow from season 2, 3 ish or Green Arrow with his rather weaker methods than no I would have probably never started watching it.

    Those are some of the reasons why I like the flashbacks.

    PS: On the Hong Kong I had massive troubles with them at sometimes and who knows maybe I'll do a thread post on what could have been done better.

  9. #54
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    I’m so glad you collected all those great one-liners and put them in one place – yes, they really added so much to my enjoyment, of the show and the character. It was kind of like, despite all his earlier efforts and struggles to keep the city under control and to be the law-and-order guy trying to do the right thing and not condone vigilantism (even “good” vigilantes; altho’ to be honest the writers had him going back and forth on this issue so often I just lost track of whatever his most current position was….)…
    You're welcome. We should have a special topic for Lance's one-liners. It started in the pilot when he said they should put ABP on Robin Hood. Or that one when he was talking with Hilton about the vigilante.

    Hilton: It looks like Queen was telling the truth.
    Lance: Yeah. Well, there's a first time for everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    I saw the Ollie-confronts-Quentin-about-DD scene from 2 perspectives. First, I do think the main point of this whole scene was to show how Ollie felt about Quentin (congrats, Amarice, for your perceptive headcanon…) and how a young man felt “betrayed” when he sees one of the people he looks up to in certain matters (a father figure in many ways perhaps) reveal himself as flawed.

    And the second way I look at this is that Oliver’s accusation and discovery of Quentin working with DD did not succeed in making me see Quentin as being “one-down” in relation to Ollie in the morals/virtue/character/ethics department. I didn’t really see Quentin as being “weak” here.

    Apparently, going only by the surveillance camera evidence, Oliver has already indicted Quentin before really investigating (by first discussing with Quentin). Even though Oliver comes to Q’s house in order to “discover” what’s going on, he’s has already made up his mind. The minute Q walks through the door, Oliver pretty much says this look on my face (contempt) is what I feel for you, Q had no idea of what he’s talking about, THEN Oliver reveals his knowledge about meeting between Q & DD, THEN Q gets that “look on his face” which Oliver says confirms that he (Oliver) is right. But Oliver’s look of contempt was there before he had any confirmation that Q’s dealings with DD were not-above board.

    So just seeing the two together led Oliver to jump to conclusions (which happened to be right) and judge Q. Upon first seeing the video, Oliver doesn’t know, for instance, if maybe Q was running a sting or anything. Also, when he shows up at Q’s Oliver is not really interested in hearing WHAT and WHY the Q & DD alliance might be going on. He’s also immediately dismissive of Q’s concerns about Laurel’s safety (even tho’ Ollie himself has done some questionable things for others’ safety such as kidnapping Lyla, and concocting his plan to allow Ras’ to haul the virus to Star City which Ollie then loses control of …). He's dismissive of understanding Q's feelings (and of course Oliver has no idea how it feels to be a parent....)

    However I know this isn’t really about Ollie trying to understand what Quentin’s doing and how events might have come to pass. I don’t think it makes Oliver look good or righteous and I don’t think it makes Quentin look as bad as Oliver sees him at that moment in time … I think it tells me about how Oliver feels and, as Amarice says, tells me about his relationship with Quentin (from Oliver’s side) and I think it did set up a situation where Quentin could unburden himself about what he’s gotten into and therefore Oliver and the team can now start helping him….. I thought it was really excellent scene overall. (This is the kind of stuff I have missed since, for me, Oliver got derailed by the Olicity storyline.)

    Yup, probably sets things up for Quentin to have a future good functional working relationship with the team and Oliver, so: time to kill him off … just when I had something to be happy about!

    Also, as an aside, I think b/c Oliver can be a very strong, dominating, quick-to-be-sure-of-himself personality, it’s a good thing that other team members are sometimes skeptical of him and give him a hard time (ie Dig, Laurel, Thea not being right-off-the-bat “supportive” of his run for mayor) b/c such a character needs people around who can challenge and provide dissent, both to keep the character grounded and to keep the dynamics interesting for the viewer. Strong leaders can handle and actually welcome challenges and different viewpoints from those they surround themselves with; weak leaders can’t.
    Thanks for the thorough analysys. For me the uneasy alliance of Quentin and Oliver/Arrow is one of the most interesting parts of the show. Of course it is heavily inspired by comissioner Gordon and Batman relationship - but in most stores/shows I watched it was a quite steady alliance. In the case of Lance and Oliver it is much more rocky one. Actually I find it quite interesting that they were brought to the point when they can speak openly, when Lance knows Oliver's secret identity, and Oliver knows about his deal with DD. As you said, Shelby, probably when his relationship with the Team (Green) Arrow will reach the steady level he will be killed off for because of reasons plot. He seems to be most expendable. Which is a shame, because Paul Blackthorne really makes his character to stand out. The only small thing which could probably speak in favour of Lance still being around at least till the end of the season is that Ollie still needs an ally in the police department. If I was writting the scenario Lance would left the police department after the story with DD was finished and became the private eye in season 5.

    But guess what? It will never happen. For the time being I'm 98% Lance will not survive this season. ;__; Yeah, lets just kill off every parental figure Ollie ever had. It's a miracle Walter survived - but then again they weren't even that close after all.

  10. #55
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    If I was writting the scenario Lance would left the police department after the story with DD was finished and became the private eye in season 5.
    Curious, what's the reasoning behind that change?

  11. #56
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Curious, what's the reasoning behind that change?
    Guess after that whole business with Darhk he would find himself dishonoured and not deserving the police badge. Certainly not the post of the police captain, being that lawful good type of the character (not like he is like this now, but it was his starting point). Besides, if I'm not wrong Larry Lance was a private eye in the comics (not like I read them, just what I read) - it would be a nod to the origin. Also he would have a bit different story arc that way.

    But I don't think they will drift into this area. Maybe over the time Ollie will not have a contact in the police department at all, maybe it will be only Laurel in the DA office later on.

  12. #57
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    I liked the episode. I really enjoyed the team out in the field fighting together, especially GA/BC together. I liked Felicity when she was with the team. I didn't like her with Curtis, something is just off. It's like she is playing Executive Barbie. I liked all the Quentin/Oliver interaction. I really get the future Father-in law/son-in law vibe from them and how Oliver looks up to him. Since it's unlikely we'll see them interact when it actually happens (because I think QL is in the grave), at least I get a glimpse of it now.

    I didn't like the female cop storyline. She doesn't think she's a criminal after she murders people? Felicity using company funds on the lair, drugs & now Oliver's campaign is stupid. Seems like she doesn't care about being CEO or her employees at all. I know they aren't trying to portray her as selfish & stupid so why do it? What I like about the FB is that they are centered around Oliver and he is making his own decisions.

  13. #58
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Guess after that whole business with Darhk he would find himself dishonoured and not deserving the police badge. Certainly not the post of the police captain, being that lawful good type of the character (not like he is like this now, but it was his starting point). Besides, if I'm not wrong Larry Lance was a private eye in the comics (not like I read them, just what I read) - it would be a nod to the origin. Also he would have a bit different story arc that way.

    But I don't think they will drift into this area. Maybe over the time Ollie will not have a contact in the police department at all, maybe it will be only Laurel in the DA office later on.
    If I remember correctly, the comics had him as both a cop and private detective at different times. He was also married to the Black Canary. Lance and the Black Canary were always earth 2 characters until a JLA/JSA cross over story in which Lance was killed saving the Canary. It was after her husband died that the Canary decided to stay on earth 1 instead of going home without her husband. This was late sixties or early 1970.

  14. #59
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    You're welcome. We should have a special topic for Lance's one-liners. It started in the pilot when he said they should put ABP on Robin Hood. Or that one when he was talking with Hilton about the vigilante.
    Lance's one-liners are becoming legendary, in the "dropping the mic" worthy category, with "It must be May." line in the Hall of Fame category. It's good that there are moments of levity thanks to Quentin. We can say what we will about the show's writing -- but in terms of Lance's zingers, he can do no wrong. Drop that mic till the series finale, Quentin.

  15. #60
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    If I remember correctly, the comics had him as both a cop and private detective at different times. He was also married to the Black Canary. Lance and the Black Canary were always earth 2 characters until a JLA/JSA cross over story in which Lance was killed saving the Canary. It was after her husband died that the Canary decided to stay on earth 1 instead of going home without her husband. This was late sixties or early 1970.
    Thanks for this piece of the information. I'm curious - did his path crossed with Green Arrow from time to time or he was solely part of Dinah's stories? The note at Wiki doesn't say anything, Comic Vine has only one line about him... Guess that means he died way too early to be "thirilled" by the perspective of becoming Green Arrow's father-in-law (not like I think we will ever see it on the screen, but just imagine how "very happy" QL was, when his daugher started dating a guy like Queen).

    Quote Originally Posted by President_Luthor
    Lance's one-liners are becoming legendary, in the "dropping the mic" worthy category, with "It must be May." line in the Hall of Fame category. It's good that there are moments of levity thanks to Quentin. We can say what we will about the show's writing -- but in terms of Lance's zingers, he can do no wrong. Drop that mic till the series finale, Quentin.
    Yes, that one about May pretty good sums up the problem the city was facing every year (remember also a fan's comment quoted in a video review on YT - "Just DON'T visit this city during this time of the year").

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