View Poll Results: What did you think?

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  • 10 - Awesome

    4 28.57%
  • 9

    4 28.57%
  • 8

    1 7.14%
  • 7

    3 21.43%
  • 6

    0 0%
  • 5

    2 14.29%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 3

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - This show is beyond redemption.

    0 0%
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  1. #1
    The artist formerly known as "KryptonSite" KSiteTV's Avatar
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    Loved It? Hated it? What did you think of "Beyond Redemption?"

    Sorry the Live thread was a bit derailed tonight by the server crashing... too many things came out all at once tonight. Anyway, what did you think?

  2. #2
    Chlark Addict BkWurm1's Avatar
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    Tough call. While the episode had some extremely wonderful acting between PB and SA and me very happy to have QL back on the path to redemption, we also had Laurel chaining her sister up in a PUBLIC basement where she was left to stew in her crazy, in the dark, in the same clothes she died in, with only a single couch cushion and some photos for "comfort" and the photos were of the people keeping her chained. And yeah, there was some other blond girl in the pic but it's not like Sara - who was completely confused - knew she was Sara nor could anyone bring her a mirror for fear she'd make a weapon out of it. So let me just start the slow clap right now.

    It is a miracle that Lance didn't drop dead in this episode. Between Oliver scaring the bejesus out of him when he broke into his apartment (three times), Laurel not giving him any warning before his dead daughter lunged at him in chains, and having a firefight with dirty cops his "heart condition" was getting a workout.

    Speaking of the dirty cops. Oh, sure right they totally weren't criminals, they only stole and distributed drugs, killed all the gang members and any cops that found out about them during the job before they could leave town but why would you call them criminals? And yet still rather than letting Lance lable her a criminal, Ladycop turns herself in.

    And oh, that stab wound to the back, Oliver just walks it off and goes to stalk his newest daddy figure.

    Yay to the new cool lair. Boo to major power glitches. (Were we supposed to think it was Ray messing with it again or just Cisco not being done with his wiring? I couldn't tell.). Yay to them acknowledging they were reusing a set. Boo that the main entrance to the secrect Lair was right out in the open in the campaign office. Yay to Thea believing in Oliver and supporting him when his vision of being Mayor faltered but Boo to how judgy Thea, Diggle and Laurel were in the beginning.

    Speaking of Laurel, what was with HER being so judgy just when she expressed not wanting it from Oliver? (And why was she scowling when Oliver was revealing the new headquarters? Getting on the elevator everyone else looked excited or curious, Laurel looked like she'd been tricked into helping someone move and they weren't even springing for pizza. Uncool man. Uncool. )

    What is cool? Leaving your sister chained up in the dark alone in a basement long enough so they can escape and unleash their crazy homicidal arse on the city. But at least Oliver didn't have a chance to be Judgy, cause that's the worst.
    Last edited by BkWurm1; 10-29-2015 at 01:50 AM.

  3. #3
    It's the mileage... costas22's Avatar
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    Definitely an improvement on last week's episode. It had a pretty good pace, some great character development and interesting plot advancement.

    The good:
    - Paul Blackthorne. It was long overdue he got an episode that focused more on him and he didn't disappoint. Fantastic acting all around. I know Quentin Lance isn't always the easiest character to like, but after "Beyond Redemption", you can see where this man is coming from and what drives him. Hopefully the show won't let him become a peripheral figure again.
    - It's been a while, but I finally enjoyed Oliver in an episode. He was angry when he should have been, understanding when he should have been and inspiring when he should have been. His scenes with Quentin were easily the best part about the show. 3 years in the making.
    - Thea for her growing maturity. Can't believe there was a time when I couldn't find anything to like about her (besides the obvious ).
    - The fight scenes. They were better choreographed than we've seen recently and I liked the backstory of Team Arrow learning from its mistakes and outsmarting their opponents the second time around.
    - Echo Kellum continues to do a solid job as Curtis Holt.
    - Conklin in the flashbacks.
    - Arrowcave 3.0 looks amazing!

    The not so good:
    - The Sara scenes. I am glad to have her back, but the whole situation feels stupid. Especially the part where Laurel was talking to her as if she was a baby.
    - Felicity in her scenes with Curtis. We get it. She's the boss. Sheesh!
    - Sorry, but I can't buy into the whole "Felicity can't even bear to hear Ray's voice one more time" stuff. Really? That might have been the case if she loved Ray. But she didn't. When we see her in the premiere, she's as happy as she's ever been. Where did all this sudden grief for Ray come from?
    - This season's plague strikes again: A run of the mill villain gets the jump on Oliver and neutralizes him. Why are they making him so helpless in fight scenes?
    - Using Palmer Tech money to fund Team Arrow's operations is a lazy plot device. And I find it hard to believe that stuff like that keeps happening with the board's approval, reluctant or not. It's disappointing that a show that's supposed to be reality based can't grasp the basics of a corporate environment.

    7/10.

  4. #4
    Settling In Gintoki's Avatar
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    Fantastic episode. Arrow is on a role. This season of Arrow is so much better than the Season 2 of The Flash.

  5. #5
    Posting Pro Raissa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Tough call. While the episode had some extremely wonderful acting between PB and SA and me very happy to have QL back on the path to redemption, we also had Laurel chaining her sister up in a PUBLIC basement where she was left to stew in her crazy, in the dark, in the same clothes she died in, with only a single couch cushion and some photos for "comfort" and the photos were of the people keeping her chained. And yeah, there was some other blond girl in the pic but it's not like Sara - who was completely confused - knew she was Sara nor could anyone bring her a mirror for fear she'd make a weapon out of it. So let me just start the slow clap right now.

    It is a miracle that Lance didn't drop dead in this episode. Between Oliver scaring the bejesus out of him when he broke into his apartment (three times), Laurel not giving him any warning before his dead daughter lunged at him in chains, and having a firefight with dirty cops his "heart condition" was getting a workout...

    What is cool? Leaving your sister chained up in the dark alone in a basement long enough so they can escape and unleash their crazy homicidal arse on the city. But at least Oliver didn't have a chance to be Judgy, cause that's the worst.
    Word and thank you! If they've engineered this grave mystery for shock value and it turns out to be Lance, it'll be the biggest anticlimax ever. While other characters have been getting get out of death free cards, they've been slowly killing Lance for three years. I EXPECT him to go, it's just a question of when. That's why I rule him out for being in the grave.

    As for the Sara situation, the inexorable stupidity would be comical, if they didn't have to worry about Sara's Post-Pit body count, because NECROMANCY always ends well.

  6. #6
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    This was an interesting episode. Iíve decided to continue with the method I employed last week and which many others on this forum utilize.

    The Awesome:

    - The flashbacks. Theyíve definitely learned their lesson from last year about having too many flashbacks being non-Oliver related and having too many of the Oliver flashbacks be Ďset-upí for the main event.

    - Lance and Oliverís confrontation. This was a great scene, and both Amell and Blackthorne played their roles beautifully in this. The implication by Oliver that he looked up to Lance and wanted his approval when he said he always wanted Lance to see what kind of man he is was something that struck me very much. It also, unfortunately, paints a target on the good captainís back and makes him a candidate for that grave. Also, Oliver telling him to stop hiding behind his daughters was pure awesomeness.

    - Lanceís reaction to Sara and the emotional scene where he tries, but canít, pull the trigger on her. Again, Blackthorne really sold this scene and reminded me of why I find him to be one of the best actors on the show. Which makes the idea of his character dying an issue for me since we already lost a superb strong parental figure in Moira Queen. But itís the CW, so itís a cross your fingers but expect the worse scenario.

    - Oliver and Theaís sibling banter throughout the episode warms the heart. I like that Theaís basically appointed herself Oliverís campaign manager.

    - Oliverís speech at the end of the episode.

    - Felicityís scenes with Curtis. These are amusing and hearken back to the first two seasons.

    The Meh:

    - Well, Iím pretty sure they basically confirmed in this episode that Felicity is the team piggy bank. While understandable, its going to cost her, but at least she admitted this in the episode. It shows her character is aware of just how fine a line she is walking when it comes to funding all these things with Palmer Tech money. This is in the Ďmehí category because its nice to have confirmation of it, but is also irritating because we now have to suspend disbelief that no one on the board would be looking into these things.

    The Bad:
    - Only one thing this time, and that was the corrupt cop storyline. It served its purpose, giving Lance some perspective and getting him to make a choice.

    The Miscellaneous:

    - Darhk mentions being a father here, so while we might not have Felicity being his daughter (and I hope that theyíre not lying about that) we might still seem some issues crop up with regard to Darhk and any kid he might have.

    - The guy who Oliver showed the cave to says a few things that had me going, ďOh, boy, Oliverís found a new Slade. Letís hope this one doesnít get turned into a lovesick idiot.Ē Then the guy finds Oliverís ARGUS backpack. Thatís going to be interesting.

    All in all, this episode rates a 9 for me because it got back to an awesome storyline, something I worried weíd see suffer after the last couple of episodes being little more than filler with a couple plot requirements thrown in. But the narrative of the episode was based around a storyline that just didnít spark, even with the whole Ďanti-vigilante task force gearí angle.

  7. #7
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    Great episode Paul Blackthorne was absolutely amazing. Long may he reign on this show.

    Damien was also pretty good. I wonder what was in that box at the end? Seemed to make him quite happy.

    Oliver also had his moments. Stephen Amell was great in his scenes at Quentin's flat but was abysmal in his campaign scenes near the end of the episode. Especially when he first walked in.

    There were two things that didn't make sense to me. One was how Laurel could go from taking out League of Assassins members at the end of last season to not even managing to take out a police officer in this episode.

    The other was how Oliver was able to get up so quickly like it was nothing after being stabbed and strangled by that cop (who was awesome).

    Diggle's comment about not wanting to raise his child in this city was interesting. Whilst he might not die, could he leave at the end of the season? If there was some finality with his brother I don't see why not.

    Also, I really really want to see more of Jimmy Akingbola.

  8. #8
    Site Groupie President_Luthor's Avatar
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    It's pretty good on some of the character fronts. We finally get some Quentin-focused character stuff. It was about time he and Ollie had it out with their long-simmering trust issues and I'm relieved the Quentin-Darhk connection is out in the open. Quentin was ready to submit himself to justice, but Ollie saw an opportunity to get some inside intel on an elusive foe. Quentin was going to exit, but Ollie asked him to stay put. All well and good, but if it goes sideways it won't all land on Quentin going forward.

    The whole team is way out of their league re: how to deal with Sara. This is my takeaway from this story arc. We're dealing with mystical elements here -- not even STAR Labs' crew over on Flash could do anything meaningful in this situation. I won't rehash again how it's a LOT subplot wedged into Arrow. Simply put: that's what this is. It's unfortunate the Lance family is left holding the messy bag on getting from point A to B re: LOT stage-setting.

    I think realism is out the window in terms of Palmer Tech, board oversight and how much latitude Felicity has in dispensing with company funds. I guess Ollie burned through all of his trust fund/inheritance dough and Moira's insurance. I'm in CW-induced suspension of disbelief mode at this point.

    And while I get that Felicity would still have lingering grief over Ray's "death", it's not like the rest of the team noticed there was a black cloud looming over her in the past few episodes because of it. It seemed more like TPTB marking off a checklist here: 'show that Felicity still has grief over what happened to Ray', 'include some melodrama to balance the action segments'. Okay, goals achieved. Didn't do much for me as a viewer, other than give Curtis an opportunity for a tiny bit of character development.

    It didn't detract from the end result: Ollie is stepping out of the shadow and actually running for mayor of SC -- something he actually becomes in the comics. Plus, they had a shoutout to another GA comics legend, Neal Adams.

    The flashbacks are better than the previous season (so far). This season is still primarily about Ollie earning the mantle of GA, all the LOT-related stuff is a mere sideshow to this. For the moment they seem on track with getting Ollie there, fingers crossed.

  9. #9
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    Tough call. While the episode had some extremely wonderful acting between PB and SA and me very happy to have QL back on the path to redemption, we also had Laurel chaining her sister up in a PUBLIC basement where she was left to stew in her crazy, in the dark, in the same clothes she died in, with only a single couch cushion and some photos for "comfort" and the photos were of the people keeping her chained. And yeah, there was some other blond girl in the pic but it's not like Sara - who was completely confused - knew she was Sara nor could anyone bring her a mirror for fear she'd make a weapon out of it. So let me just start the slow clap right now.
    Considering it's been pointed out by several characters it's not Sara because, as John Constantine will explain in next weeks episode and was just said by Darkh, she doesn't have her soul, it doesn't seem like keeping her held captive matters to her.
    Yay to the new cool lair. Boo to major power glitches. (Were we supposed to think it was Ray messing with it again or just Cisco not being done with his wiring? I couldn't tell.). Yay to them acknowledging they were reusing a set. Boo that the main entrance to the secrect Lair was right out in the open in the campaign office. Yay to Thea believing in Oliver and supporting him when his vision of being Mayor faltered but Boo to how judgy Thea, Diggle and Laurel were in the beginning.
    They were doing the whole city a favor by not supporting him. He's awful.
    Speaking of Laurel, what was with HER being so judgy just when she expressed not wanting it from Oliver? (And why was she scowling when Oliver was revealing the new headquarters? Getting on the elevator everyone else looked excited or curious, Laurel looked like she'd been tricked into helping someone move and they weren't even springing for pizza. Uncool man. Uncool. )
    She was probably having bad flashbacks of being the only one out of them to discover brother blood's identity, while being an alcoholic and a I think a drug addict, and yet was completely blown off, even though the facts of the situation didn't add up when Oliver decided to drop it, because he thought Laurel was his blind spot.
    What is cool? Leaving your sister chained up in the dark alone in a basement long enough so they can escape and unleash their crazy homicidal arse on the city. But at least Oliver didn't have a chance to be Judgy, cause that's the worst.
    It is actually. This episode was a good example of that. Oliver Queen has the utter gall to tell Quentin that he wanted him to see him for the man that he is when that was what Quentin did in season 1 and this past season and so far this season, which is a bad guy. Apparently Oliver thinks he's not one. But at least Laurel didn't leave the city for months, abandoning her sister without any checking in to make sure her pit insanity that she was warned about hasn't flared up.

    God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life!

  10. #10
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quark View Post
    There were two things that didn't make sense to me. One was how Laurel could go from taking out League of Assassins members at the end of last season to not even managing to take out a police officer in this episode.
    That would require her to advance in some way in her abilities as a hero. Or that's just poor continuity. I don't know what I would take issue with more.

    God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life!

  11. #11
    Board Master Dagenspear's Avatar
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    This was an interesting episode, because it made me realize what Laurel's light is. When Felicity said that she had a light in her that Sara didn't, I thought she was just talking about the fact that Laurel isn't a sociopathic serial murderer, but this episode gave me an understanding of her that I hadn't realized: Laurel is an eternal optimist. A rabid person she calls her sister tries to kill her and she still thinks that Sara's in there. Though to be fair, Sara did seem to like in her younger years in hurting Laurel behind her back, so this might just be a resurfacing trait that's become more aggressive.

    God bless you all! God bless your families and everyone else in your lives! God bless everyone!

  12. #12
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    There were two things that didn't make sense to me. One was how Laurel could go from taking out League of Assassins members at the end of last season to not even managing to take out a police officer in this episode.
    She was fighting one on one with the officer but than the other came back and tazed her.

  13. #13
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    I was expecting to dislike this episode, but I was pleasantly surprised. I'm still not onboard with the way they're treating the Sara storyline (and can we please not equate crazy with soulless? Two very different things and acting like they're the same is really insulting to real people who struggle with mental illness) but like many others, I feel like it's just a way of getting us from point A (Sara being dead) to point C (Sara being alive and joining the Legends of Tomorrow).

    Paul Blackthorne acted his butt off this episode though. While I think him trying to kill Sara was awful (even in her current state) it was a really poignant and heartbreaking scene and I'm glad that he couldn't go through with it. He also had some nice moments with Oliver and it was nice seeing him snarking it up with the team.

    I agree with Dagenspear that Laurel's reaction to the new lair being in Blood's office was likely her flashbacks to being the only one who knew what was going on with Blood in season 2. That was a pretty dark time for her and I imagine being in that office stirs up some painful memories.

    I actually thought it was nice to see Felicity grieving over Ray. It's nice to see that she cared, even if it's coming belatedly. Someone on Tumblr made a good point, mentioning that she might not have wanted to openly grieve for Ray while on her world tour with Oliver. She may have buried herself in her new life and kept a happy face for Oliver, but having this stuff with Ray come up is stirring up her grief. And while I don't want a return to the love triangle of suck, I'm glad for the confirmation that Ray meant something to her besides just a distraction from her feelings for Oliver.

    I was also really happy to see a Thea and Oliver bonding moment and I was happy that Oliver must have told Thea he was planning on proposing. The way it was handled in the season premiere, it seemed like he hadn't and I thought that was in poor taste that he would use their dead mother's ring to propose to anyone without telling his sister, plus it made me sad to think that he would contemplate such a big thing without talking to his sister. So I'm glad that he did tell Thea.

  14. #14
    Hopeless Forum Addict Halberdier17's Avatar
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    I don't think they were equating Souless with Mental Illness. It is just that Sara came back from the dead and her soul didn't come back with her. That is why Constantine has to be introduced to bring back Sara's soul using magic.

  15. #15
    Black Canary dreamsofnever's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halberdier17 View Post
    I don't think they were equating Souless with Mental Illness. It is just that Sara came back from the dead and her soul didn't come back with her. That is why Constantine has to be introduced to bring back Sara's soul using magic.
    The writers weren't, but posters making comments about Sara "stewing in crazy" and going into a "crazy homicidal rage" are really offensive to me and likely to others.

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