View Poll Results: Rate This Episode

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  • 10 - Restored My Faith In This Series

    7 33.33%
  • 9

    0 0%
  • 8

    1 4.76%
  • 7

    5 23.81%
  • 6

    4 19.05%
  • 5

    2 9.52%
  • 4

    1 4.76%
  • 3

    1 4.76%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 1 - Whats Dead Should Be Left Dead

    0 0%
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  1. #61
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    Hi again,

    I'll just answer a few of your comments, the ones I found pertinent:

    It al depends on what IT you are referring to. It seemed clear to me that Oliver is talking about his mission that he only expanded past the names on a list AFTER Felicity joined with Diggle in encouraging him to do more to help than just go after the fat cats. Otherwise he would have said it started with me and I need to get back to that
    .

    When I look back at season one, I don't feel that the presence or addition of Felicity changed anything about Oliver's mission, at least not anything that Diggle hadn't changed. Since Diggle joined TWELVE episodes before Felicity, I'd say that it was his benevolent influence and hero pep talks that made Oliver change his attitude towards his own goals/mission. So, in my eyes Diggle has been much for important for the man Oliver is now than Felicity, at least until the writers started to transfer most of Diggle's functions to Felicity in order to make her look more important.

    In my eyes Felicity's main function in these early episodes was always to provide computer tech, and help the plot flow smoothly from A to B with her investigative skills. I also seem to recall that in interviews Felicity's addition is often described as a way to bring levity to the "Arrowcave" team, which is pretty far from the important attitude or mind-changing role that you attribute to her. But I'm sure that I view her differently from her hardcore fans, who obviously consider her a very important person, to the team, to Oliver and to the show.

    Sure, Laurel worked with the Hood but she also wobbled back and forth on if she liked him or thought he was nothing but a killer who she should have nothing to do with. He was a means to an end for her, not a partner. A similar assertion was made about Tommy. From MG's Tumblr

    Tommy looked out for the team and hid their lair but him knowing and him helping still aren't enough for him to be considered a team member. Laurel didn't know and helped sometimes, more often, she asked for his help. Per the show runner that's not enough to consider her on the team, but you of course are free to have your own opinions.
    Tommy was never a member of the team, so that was a silly question IMHO. Regardless of how Laurel viewed the Hood at various stages, she was helping him, and she was an essential part of the A-story until the middle of season one. What you call Laurel's "wobbling" was actually an interesting plot development in my eyes, because Laurel had every reason to feel repelled by the man she saw in certain situations, e.g. when she saw him almost kill a man in that scene at the prison. So, her changing views of him were plausible, both from a plot-related POV and from a psychological POV. In fact, I would say that this dynamic was one of the most interesting parts of season one, and it shows how much more focused and well-written season one is in comparison to other seasons.

    Concerning Laurel's role as a team member...First of all, Oliver asked Laurel for help on numerous occasions, so let's not diminish her by claiming that she is the one who mostly asked for help. In fact, the first encounter between Laurel and the Hood was when he came to her home and asked her to help him with the Declan case. Besides, regardless of whether it was Laurel who asked for help, or Oliver, they were working together as partners. Furthermore, if some oliciters can exalt Felicity's helping Oliver to find some info during the early episodes to her being "a member of the Original Team" ever since episode 1X3, I think we can acknowledge Laurel's role as well. The producers may not consider her a member of TA, since she didn't know Oliver's secret identity, but the "Arrow" writers sure gave her an important role in many seasone episodes, a role that was directly tied to her collaboration with the Hood/Oliver.

    Doesn't seem so elaborate to point out that Oliver only gained a team when he had more than one person working with him. And it wasn't until Felicity joined them that Oliver finally moved past just crossing names off his list. Plus there's the part that only Felicity ever called them Team Arrow so can't be a Team Arrow before the person that coin's the name is on the team.
    A team can consist of two persons, I think...Anyway, my complaint is more that Felicity is touted as an "original" member, when she only joined in 1X15, TWELVE episodes after Diggle and Oliver had been working together as a well-functioning team...

    I can't stop other people from taking it as an insult. That's up to them. Any use of OTA to mean go away Laurel is only a small fraction of what it means. Believe me, I don't need to say Go Away Laurel in some code if I want to say Go Away Laurel.
    They take it as an insult because of the behavior of parts of the Olicity fanbase. If parts of the Olicity fandom hadn't used it in an exclusionary manner, and if some of them hadn't behaved the way they do online, nobody would have minded the OTA references. If you don't belong to the part of the fandom who are anti-campaigning against the "Wack Canary", cutting out her face from Team Arrow pics and cyber bullying KC on her own TL, you might not understand this. The rest of us only have to spend some time on twitter and tumblr to see the very raw hate against anything that has to do with Laurel, Black Canary and Katie Cassidy, all in the name of the Holy Trinity. THAT is why the OTA rhetoric is so off-putting to many of us.

    That was not my experience. The episode and the appearance of Charlotte Ross was considered a success and the only ones I've heard dislike that episode are not non shippers but anti Felicity since it wasn't a shippy episode in the least. The closest thing to being shippy was that suddenly after several episodes Oliver stopped scowling all the time
    On the general discussion forums I frequent it was considered one of the weakest episodes in season three, and many posters felt that the writers cheapened Felicity's back story by making it so cliché and almost a copy past of Penelope Garcia's. So, in the eyes of the non-shipper fans (and quite a few reviewers') it wasn't a very good episode. I'm only bringing this up because you often hear the argument that Felicity is the show's savior because she is so popular, which makes you think everything she touches turns to gold. However, Felicity is no better than her writing, and the writing wasn't very good in that ep, hence the luke-warm reception, at least in general fandom.

    And many that don't. No proof in that. Typically I hear Season two, season one, season three.
    The fact that season one, where Olicity (as a real romance rather than ship tease) didn't exist, and where Felicity had a much more restricted role, is considered the second best season shows that it is the quality of the writing and the plotting that counts, and not the presence of a certain character/ship. It also shows that Laurel is not detrimental to the show in any way, since she actually was more prominent and had more screen time in season one than in other seasons.

    Furthermore, Felicity/Olicity, whether we're talking about season three or season four have not increased the ratings in any significant way. Again, the only reason I mention this is that the more hardcore Felicity/Olicity fans always talk about Felicity, the O/F romance and OTA as the most essential parts of "Arrow", and something the show couldn't survive without. Now that Olicity is canon, and Felicity seems to have become the second most important character after Oliver, we don't see any dramatic rise in the ratings...in fact, they are LOWER than some allegedly Laurel-centric eps in season three. Furthermore, many fans were disappointed in the OTA episode, after a promising start. I guess what I want to say is that that what is great for Felicity/Olicity/OTA fans might not be anything special to non-fans.

    Clearly, and to counter that viewpoint, I'm sure the appreciation for continued appreciation shown to the OTA will continue to come.
    Of course it will continue to come, but at this stage (when BC and Speedy have become fully-fledged members of TA) the appreciation and campaigning will always come from a very specific sector of the fandom. If the writers think that this sector is SO important that they have to keep catering to them, they should go ahead and do that. As for myself, I will focus on shows where the writers try to appeal to ALL viewers by writing an ensemble show where ALL the characters will get good/substantial storylines, rather than a show where the writers seem to cater mostly to a very online active shipper fandom. "The Flash" has shown that you can write good superhero fiction without specifically catering to the shippers or to a certain fanbase, and so have the "Daredevil" writers.

    Comic book history is a crutch. If it's meaningful, show it on screen and then I'll believe it. And I am perfectly open to the newer members of the team earning their place but so far they've just been there. We haven't had big moments really cementing them as a team. They got a big moment of acceptance as fighters at the end of season three but so far this season they are just co workers slash his little sister.
    I think there have been such moments, even if you don't acknowledge them. Furthermore, if the writers spend more time on propping a version of the team that ceased to exist in mid-season two they don't have much opportunity to show how the new team is forged or cemented. Anyway, for those of us who don't see the O/F/D relationship as SO special, there is no problem following and appreciating the new team working together. For example, I thought the scene where Ollie/Green Arrow shoots a line, and Laurel/BC descends was pretty awesome, and a nice nod to the GA/BC crime fighting relationship in the comics.

    I think Willa Holland is a great actress and I've liked her from the start. I'm sure KC is good in some things but clearly my viewpoint radically differs than yours but I don't feel the need to rip her down to prop up EBR who I greatly enjoy.

    You are free to like or dislike any character of your choosing.

    I really don't understand the insistence that Oliver, Diggle and Felicity weren't a great team or the denial that they were close or bonded with each other. It would be like me saying Oliver never loved or dated Laurel. It's one thing to be tired of people talking about it, but to deny it ever existed? I just find it confusing.
    With all due respect, I sometimes feel you're harshly criticizing one character whose character portrayal seems to bother you in a major way, while going to extreme lengths to defend the character portrayal of another, often down to minute details.

    Just recently you completed a series of posts where you described in detail everything that you consider is wrong with Laurel. That is your prerogative, of course (although I have the impression that you have already said many of these things in earlier posts!). However, when it comes to Felicity criticism, you seem to think that she is a flawless, well-written fictional character, and that her EVERY action is right, and justified. This means that those of us who have problems with her character portrayal are basically wrong, because things are not at all as we see them. I think that you would have found such an attitude towards your numerous posts in the Laurel Lance thread a tad annoying.

    I have no problems admitting that the "Arrow" writers have not always done Laurel/Black Canary justice, or that they could have written her better. It's just that she has been under so much fire that I usually find myself in a position where I feel I have to defend her, because the critique is so exaggerated and sometimes so unjustified.

    However, I you seem unable to admit that there is anything wrong with Felicity's character portrayal or her storylines, and that frankly puzzles me a bit, because I don't find her to be that original, well-rounded or well-written as a fictional character. In fact, I can think of tens of "strong female characters" who are less cliché/more complex, more interesting and more realistically drawn than Felicity Smoak.

    TBH, as @JDBentz also said, I think your posts about Laurel and Felicity would be more convincing if you admitted that they reflect a strong bias, rather than to hide that bias under a cloak of objectivity, or referring to your own idiosyncratic interpretations of various episodes and storylines as irrefutable facts. It's not that Laurel HAS all those flaws and faults, and you're just bringing them to the light, nor is it a fact that Felicity is an almost flawless and well-written character. I think your criticism of Laurel would be more convincing if you could admit that the writers could have done things better when it comes to BOTH characters.

    If we want to adhere to a semblance of objectivity in our discussions (something which you seem to endeavor, you cannot single out Laurel as the great problem, while defending even ludicrous writing choices when it comes to Felicity, such as her flying the ATOM suit, or becoming a CEO just because her former boyfriend signed over a multi-billion dollar company to her. That is not the way to portray a character who is supposed to be a strong woman, and I'm surprised that you can't see the fairy tale element here.

    As for EBR's actings skills I was not putting her down. I was just expressing my opinion that she is still a rather inexperienced and limited actress. I find her scenes enjoyable, but rather unremarkable and even "flat" (mostly due to the absence of sub-text, which most experienced actors are able to add). I'm not saying that Katie or Willa are any Emmy-winners, but they do have quite a lot more experience than EBR, and they are more believable in their emotional/dramatic scenes, at least in my eyes.

    Now, concerning Diggle/Felicity/Oliver as a great team....I liked them together, but to me their relationship isn't THAT essential or special. I think that both Oliver and Diggle can have a great relationship and bond with Laurel and Thea as well. Diggle has been working closely with Thea and Laurel for six months during hiatus, so he has had the time to establish a close relationship with them as well. This is something that the OTA apologists seem to deny, because it doesn't fit with their idea of O/F/D as having a special bond. I guess I just don't understand the reification and glorification of a constellation that only really existed for a limited number of episodes.

    I'll stop here. My main complaint was with the IMHO gratuitous references to fan made concept in actual show convos, which makes it seem as though the writers endorse an exclusionary fandom notion. To quite a cyberfriend of mine:

    I'm not ok with it. When you have a popular character implying how she misses the old times before newer members of the Team came it just adds to the overall negativity in heavy polarized fandom. It makes it look like Thea and Laurel are some unnecessary additions to the Team and it gives reason to the fans of "OTA" to ask for them to be removed from the Team. ]
    Last edited by evaba; 10-24-2015 at 09:11 AM.

  2. #62
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    On the issue of 'Oliver branching out from the List', Bkwurm1 said it was Felicity's presence that started him out on that. This is, in fact, false because Diggle got him involved in a non-List mission with the Royal Flush gang. And, while it did end up being a List mission, Oliver's original intent with Deadshot was to take him down because he had no code, no honor; it was only after he got the laptop and took it to Felicity that he found out Deadshot was working for Warren Patel, a name on the List. And originally, the Huntress episode was Oliver finding whoever took the shot at his mother. That did eventually fold into missions for the List, but again, it didn't start out that way. None of these had anything to do with Felicity joining the team. And once someone is working alongside another person, they are considered a team, especially in the world of superheroes. Does anyone doubt that Batman and Robin are a team? Hawkman and Hawkgirl, who will be coming into play this year on the 3 shows? Oliver and Diggle were as much a team as any other duo of heroes. To try and claim otherwise is to diminish that in order to elevate your own viewpoint.

    Also, Bkwurm1, I am sure you do feel that the way your wording your replies is earnest and you don't mean to sound anything but sincere and fair-minded, but some of the phrases you use appear to be a rather poor disclaimer to try and cover yourself in the cloak of neutrality. However, since you have previously established a clear bias against the character of Laurel Lance, evaba, Shelby Kent, myself, and others like us see your attempts to say this is you being neutral as double-speak. Again, you probably are being sincere, stepping back and speaking honestly, but just like you don't know how our minds work, we don't know how yours does.

    I would suggest we all take time to consider how we approach things. I personally know that while I can shrug off any personal feeling most of the time, when it comes to how things are playing out on Arrow which, for me as a storyteller, are ruining the story that was promised in the earlier seasons, I can't quite shrug off the personal views and I do get into a heated state of mind.

  3. #63
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    Ugh, speaking of.... I think I posted this in the wrong thread. (slaps forehead) Moron, go to bed!

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by BkWurm1 View Post
    I gave my opinion therefore you are false in saying it is false. It really IS my opinion.
    It isn't an opinion. The original team is Oliver and Diggle. That's a fact.

    God bless you! God bless your family and everyone else in your life!

  5. #65
    Forum Whiz Amarice's Avatar
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    Will take me a bit of time before I get through all of your reviews. Just took a look and hey, people, calm down. I stick to the show partly because I enjoy to read the discussions, reviews and specultations here, and it would be a shame if it all fell apart.

    I'm afraid my post is going to be a little chaotic, but I wanted to just focus on some things.

    My first thought about the episode was that it's Green Arrow vs. poorer version of Gambit. Actually I think they could have used the character better. His first duel with Ollie looked decent, but he looks kinda lame, when he is driven away by Felicity from the Arrowcave 2.0... So where it places Oliver and what had happened with his skills?

    The crane scene was silly. It's not a drone. But skip the part about how it's possible to operate it remotely. How exactly Felicity was able to see where the bad guy was? And drop the stuff to block him without killing him? Or without hurting Oliver or Dig, who could have been close by? I don't know why the showrunners think they need to add scenes like this. Felicity is valuable member of the team when she is sitting besides the computer screens and monitors the situation. There is no need for her to engage in any way in the field. One can probably use an argument that it's tv show reality etc. Sure, it is. But just to give an example - there is a subtle difference between believability of the scenes with a guy jumping off the rooftops and not hurting himself and a guy falling into abyss and coming out of it alive. To put it shortly - "yes" for the first type of the scenes, "no" for the second one. So, "yes" for computer hacking, "no" for remote control of things, which can't be remotely controled. Besides, all that opening scene was kind of sloppy - Oliver's motocycle ride was risky as hell (he also wouldn't be able to see where he was going and then suddenly - a drop down with such a speed wouldn't turn out well). Also, no idea why that bad guy didn't just shot Dig straight to the head.

    The storyline with the League was quite watchable, but didn't had too much sense. Why Laurel insist on bringing back Sara, when so many people tell her it won't turn out good, and why Malcolm suddenly agrees to it is beyond my understanding. But it moved forward the storyline, and it's always good to see Nyssa. Also, Malcolm and Thea scenes (especially when he tries to be "a normal dad") were good ones. He again showed his manipulative side and ruthlessness, when he send his own people to be slaughtered. Speaking of another father - I already feel sorry for Quentin, when he is going to find out that his daughter came back again from the grave. In a manner of speaking.

    As for the Orginal Team Arrow matter - which I saw has already polarized the discussion here - my main problem with it is not who was in said OTA, and when and why joined it. I don't like that the people responsible for the show tend to forget certain things. IMO they are completely missing the point when Felicity refers to this time with such a nostalgia. What about the fact that it was really hard for Felicity to accept Oliver's methods in the first season? Or when they failed to save Glades? Or at the beginning of the season 2, when SCDP was hunting down the Arrow? Are those really such great times to miss? Besides they were not really operating like this too much (I mean Oliver in the field and Dig as the backup) because in season 2 Dig was mostly sitting in the Arrowcave doing NOTHING. Overall, I think it they put here Felicity saying something about the three of them working together once, it wouldn't give an impression that it is so forced fanservice.

    For example, although I'm not into Olicity pairing, I'm mostly okay with it at this point as long as they are in the relationship, and not tangled into some ridiculous love triangle. In this episode it was really subtle. Also, although I find it a bit out of the character for Felicity to yell on Dig and Ollie, I accept it as a scene which main purpouse was to make them talk with each other about the root of the problem.

    Of course now instead of them slowly coming on better terms again, there was that scene when Ollie took a bullet... or rather a card for Dig, and probably because of that they are supposed to be BFF again in the next episode. But Dig's and Oliver's dynamics is one of the things I originaly liked in the show, and finally Dig told him about the HIVE and what he did found about his brother's murder. The only lead he had is now lost, so I guess they will have to dig into it (no pun intended) together from now on and find something else.

    Almost forget about the island flashbacks - I liked it, for sure it brings back the feeling of the season 1 stuff. I wonder it Oliver will take that woman to the Yao Fei cave? And when the OGH (Original Green Hood) and ORB (Original Recurve Bow) are going to appear?

  6. #66
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Will take me a bit of time before I get through all of your reviews. Just took a look and hey, people, calm down. I stick to the show partly because I enjoy to read the discussions, reviews and specultations here, and it would be a shame if it all fell apart.

    I'm afraid my post is going to be a little chaotic, but I wanted to just focus on some things.

    My first thought about the episode was that it's Green Arrow vs. poorer version of Gambit. Actually I think they could have used the character better. His first duel with Ollie looked decent, but he looks kinda lame, when he is driven away by Felicity from the Arrowcave 2.0... So where it places Oliver and what had happened with his skills?

    The crane scene was silly. It's not a drone. But skip the part about how it's possible to operate it remotely. How exactly Felicity was able to see where the bad guy was? And drop the stuff to block him without killing him? Or without hurting Oliver or Dig, who could have been close by? I don't know why the showrunners think they need to add scenes like this. Felicity is valuable member of the team when she is sitting besides the computer screens and monitors the situation. There is no need for her to engage in any way in the field. One can probably use an argument that it's tv show reality etc. Sure, it is. But just to give an example - there is a subtle difference between believability of the scenes with a guy jumping off the rooftops and not hurting himself and a guy falling into abyss and coming out of it alive. To put it shortly - "yes" for the first type of the scenes, "no" for the second one. So, "yes" for computer hacking, "no" for remote control of things, which can't be remotely controled. Besides, all that opening scene was kind of sloppy - Oliver's motocycle ride was risky as hell (he also wouldn't be able to see where he was going and then suddenly - a drop down with such a speed wouldn't turn out well). Also, no idea why that bad guy didn't just shot Dig straight to the head.

    The storyline with the League was quite watchable, but didn't had too much sense. Why Laurel insist on bringing back Sara, when so many people tell her it won't turn out good, and why Malcolm suddenly agrees to it is beyond my understanding. But it moved forward the storyline, and it's always good to see Nyssa. Also, Malcolm and Thea scenes (especially when he tries to be "a normal dad") were good ones. He again showed his manipulative side and ruthlessness, when he send his own people to be slaughtered. Speaking of another father - I already feel sorry for Quentin, when he is going to find out that his daughter came back again from the grave. In a manner of speaking.

    As for the Orginal Team Arrow matter - which I saw has already polarized the discussion here - my main problem with it is not who was in said OTA, and when and why joined it. I don't like that the people responsible for the show tend to forget certain things. IMO they are completely missing the point when Felicity refers to this time with such a nostalgia. What about the fact that it was really hard for Felicity to accept Oliver's methods in the first season? Or when they failed to save Glades? Or at the beginning of the season 2, when SCDP was hunting down the Arrow? Are those really such great times to miss? Besides they were not really operating like this too much (I mean Oliver in the field and Dig as the backup) because in season 2 Dig was mostly sitting in the Arrowcave doing NOTHING. Overall, I think it they put here Felicity saying something about the three of them working together once, it wouldn't give an impression that it is so forced fanservice.

    For example, although I'm not into Olicity pairing, I'm mostly okay with it at this point as long as they are in the relationship, and not tangled into some ridiculous love triangle. In this episode it was really subtle. Also, although I find it a bit out of the character for Felicity to yell on Dig and Ollie, I accept it as a scene which main purpouse was to make them talk with each other about the root of the problem.

    Of course now instead of them slowly coming on better terms again, there was that scene when Ollie took a bullet... or rather a card for Dig, and probably because of that they are supposed to be BFF again in the next episode. But Dig's and Oliver's dynamics is one of the things I originaly liked in the show, and finally Dig told him about the HIVE and what he did found about his brother's murder. The only lead he had is now lost, so I guess they will have to dig into it (no pun intended) together from now on and find something else.

    Almost forget about the island flashbacks - I liked it, for sure it brings back the feeling of the season 1 stuff. I wonder it Oliver will take that woman to the Yao Fei cave? And when the OGH (Original Green Hood) and ORB (Original Recurve Bow) are going to appear?
    I agree with you the crane was not a drone, but maybe it should have been. Felicity doesn't belong in the field, ever, but if she is going to be listening in and helping remotely why not give her a drone?

    Felicity 1 could be outfitted with a video camera and speakers, weapons could include smoke screens and missiles. Why not put all that Atom suit tech she learned about to use in a drone?

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    I agree with you the crane was not a drone, but maybe it should have been. Felicity doesn't belong in the field, ever, but if she is going to be listening in and helping remotely why not give her a drone?

    Felicity 1 could be outfitted with a video camera and speakers, weapons could include smoke screens and missiles. Why not put all that Atom suit tech she learned about to use in a drone?
    Please do not give the showrunners any more ideas. It was bad enough with the crane. If they did something like that they might as well rename the show Felicity Smoak and friends. Gah now you've got that nightmare stuck in my head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Amarice View Post
    Will take me a bit of time before I get through all of your reviews. Just took a look and hey, people, calm down. I stick to the show partly because I enjoy to read the discussions, reviews and specultations here, and it would be a shame if it all fell apart.

    I'm afraid my post is going to be a little chaotic, but I wanted to just focus on some things.

    My first thought about the episode was that it's Green Arrow vs. poorer version of Gambit. Actually I think they could have used the character better. His first duel with Ollie looked decent, but he looks kinda lame, when he is driven away by Felicity from the Arrowcave 2.0... So where it places Oliver and what had happened with his skills?

    The crane scene was silly. It's not a drone. But skip the part about how it's possible to operate it remotely. How exactly Felicity was able to see where the bad guy was? And drop the stuff to block him without killing him? Or without hurting Oliver or Dig, who could have been close by? I don't know why the showrunners think they need to add scenes like this. Felicity is valuable member of the team when she is sitting besides the computer screens and monitors the situation. There is no need for her to engage in any way in the field. One can probably use an argument that it's tv show reality etc. Sure, it is. But just to give an example - there is a subtle difference between believability of the scenes with a guy jumping off the rooftops and not hurting himself and a guy falling into abyss and coming out of it alive. To put it shortly - "yes" for the first type of the scenes, "no" for the second one. So, "yes" for computer hacking, "no" for remote control of things, which can't be remotely controled. Besides, all that opening scene was kind of sloppy - Oliver's motocycle ride was risky as hell (he also wouldn't be able to see where he was going and then suddenly - a drop down with such a speed wouldn't turn out well). Also, no idea why that bad guy didn't just shot Dig straight to the head.

    The storyline with the League was quite watchable, but didn't had too much sense. Why Laurel insist on bringing back Sara, when so many people tell her it won't turn out good, and why Malcolm suddenly agrees to it is beyond my understanding. But it moved forward the storyline, and it's always good to see Nyssa. Also, Malcolm and Thea scenes (especially when he tries to be "a normal dad") were good ones. He again showed his manipulative side and ruthlessness, when he send his own people to be slaughtered. Speaking of another father - I already feel sorry for Quentin, when he is going to find out that his daughter came back again from the grave. In a manner of speaking.

    As for the Orginal Team Arrow matter - which I saw has already polarized the discussion here - my main problem with it is not who was in said OTA, and when and why joined it. I don't like that the people responsible for the show tend to forget certain things. IMO they are completely missing the point when Felicity refers to this time with such a nostalgia. What about the fact that it was really hard for Felicity to accept Oliver's methods in the first season? Or when they failed to save Glades? Or at the beginning of the season 2, when SCDP was hunting down the Arrow? Are those really such great times to miss? Besides they were not really operating like this too much (I mean Oliver in the field and Dig as the backup) because in season 2 Dig was mostly sitting in the Arrowcave doing NOTHING. Overall, I think it they put here Felicity saying something about the three of them working together once, it wouldn't give an impression that it is so forced fanservice.

    For example, although I'm not into Olicity pairing, I'm mostly okay with it at this point as long as they are in the relationship, and not tangled into some ridiculous love triangle. In this episode it was really subtle. Also, although I find it a bit out of the character for Felicity to yell on Dig and Ollie, I accept it as a scene which main purpouse was to make them talk with each other about the root of the problem.

    Of course now instead of them slowly coming on better terms again, there was that scene when Ollie took a bullet... or rather a card for Dig, and probably because of that they are supposed to be BFF again in the next episode. But Dig's and Oliver's dynamics is one of the things I originaly liked in the show, and finally Dig told him about the HIVE and what he did found about his brother's murder. The only lead he had is now lost, so I guess they will have to dig into it (no pun intended) together from now on and find something else.

    Almost forget about the island flashbacks - I liked it, for sure it brings back the feeling of the season 1 stuff. I wonder it Oliver will take that woman to the Yao Fei cave? And when the OGH (Original Green Hood) and ORB (Original Recurve Bow) are going to appear?
    A very good post. now I'm going to focus on the island stuff you've mentioned.

    I think he just may take her to the Yao Fei's cave or the fuselage. Now for the OGH and ORB I really hope they show up soon and Oliver at least beginning wearing the Hood. Because seeing him run around the island with the short hair with the green hood over it and using either his long bow or recuvre from season 1 would be so cool. It would really allow for like going back to season 1 or at least classic Arrow look in the "past" as we actually progress there.

    Yea I really hope they bring in him wearing the classic hood and bow in the past frequently now and also due to their removal of it in the present day. I really was disappointed we never saw Oliver wear the hood at all in year 3 or Hong Kong.

    Also Oliver still needs to at least get those Chinese letters and the Bratva tattoo.

  9. #69
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Please do not give the showrunners any more ideas. It was bad enough with the crane. If they did something like that they might as well rename the show Felicity Smoak and friends. Gah now you've got that nightmare stuck in my head.
    Oh, knockout gas! The drone could have knockout gas!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    A very good post. now I'm going to focus on the island stuff you've mentioned.

    I think he just may take her to the Yao Fei's cave or the fuselage. Now for the OGH and ORB I really hope they show up soon and Oliver at least beginning wearing the Hood. Because seeing him run around the island with the short hair with the green hood over it and using either his long bow or recuvre from season 1 would be so cool. It would really allow for like going back to season 1 or at least classic Arrow look in the "past" as we actually progress there.

    Yea I really hope they bring in him wearing the classic hood and bow in the past frequently now and also due to their removal of it in the present day. I really was disappointed we never saw Oliver wear the hood at all in year 3 or Hong Kong.

    Also Oliver still needs to at least get those Chinese letters and the Bratva tattoo.
    The flashbacks this year seem to be pretty good but focusing on them only heightens my disappointment, it shows us what the show could've been not what it is or will be.

  11. #71
    Site Groupie Shelby Kent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Please do not give the showrunners any more ideas. It was bad enough with the crane. If they did something like that they might as well rename the show Felicity Smoak and friends. Gah now you've got that nightmare stuck in my head.
    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    Oh, knockout gas! The drone could have knockout gas!!!!
    Heartless!!! Have you no pity for Haggard01's predicament and his plea?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shelby Kent View Post
    Heartless!!! Have you no pity for Haggard01's predicament and his plea?
    Carmine-Infantino... Probably not
    Last edited by Haggard01; 10-24-2015 at 10:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleDevil View Post
    The flashbacks this year seem to be pretty good but focusing on them only heightens my disappointment, it shows us what the show could've been not what it is or will be.
    Well look on the bright side. At least we have the flashbacks to focus on. So at least for this year and the next we still have like two hour long movies of the good show.

  14. #74
    Forum Whiz Carmine-Infantino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haggard01 View Post
    Carmine-Infantino... Probably not
    Oh Haggard01,I can feel your pain. I'm chewing on my lower lip as I type this. The problem I have is Arrow jumped the shark (IMHO) last year, and I can no longer take anything about the show serious. It's cute that you think it isn't already the Felicity show when it clearly has been for some time. So I say if they are going to do clownish things like with the crane, then just go for it no half measures. Send in the drones, don't bother they're here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Carmine-Infantino View Post
    Oh Haggard01,I can feel your pain. I'm chewing on my lower lip as I type this. The problem I have is Arrow jumped the shark (IMHO) last year, and I can no longer take anything about the show serious. It's cute that you think it isn't already the Felicity show when it clearly has been for some time. So I say if they are going to do clownish things like with the crane, then just go for it no half measures. Send in the drones, don't bother they're here.
    Let's give Felicity a cybersuit she can wear while in the Arrowcave that controls a remote drone/avatar out in the field where Oliver and Diggle are actually nothing more than backup/bodyguards for this expensive piece of technological equipment. ("Oops... Batteries went dead. Diggle, give me a hand getting this back to the Arrowcave so Felicity can charge it up again." "But Oliver, the criminals are getting away!" "Not to worry, Felicity will catch them next time we come out to play.")
    Last edited by DoubleDevil; 10-24-2015 at 10:53 AM.

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